Sad state of moto?

MtnBoy
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6/28/2015 11:55am
yakrider wrote:
Not sure about the two strove versus four debate, but bringing back two stroke would return motocross to its grassroots a bit. I agree that both...
Not sure about the two strove versus four debate, but bringing back two stroke would return motocross to its grassroots a bit. I agree that both series have talent, I just also happen to think that at the moment, the GPs have more depth in their classes.
Classes? No

450 Class...maybe

250 Class...US Series has the covered all day long and twice on Sunday
steed 2.0
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6/28/2015 12:10pm
JMR1976 wrote:
Then you should be quick on the bike.
Those times that I burned two full gas tanks (Avgas + 747) on a practice day are long gone SmileWink
Roostermx58
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6/28/2015 12:13pm
Most of us GNCC guys and "trail riders" cross train on an mx track. Just because we are off-road riders doesn't mean we have never been on a mx track before. Most of the top GNCC guys know how to jump a double and throw a whip. Being a specialist in off-road means that you are adapting to the ever changing track. 3 hours is a lot longer than a 30 +2 moto and racers have to search to find new lines. Something that an mx/sx may not have to do if the tracks are groomed each moto for them.
GrapeApe
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6/28/2015 12:32pm
newmann wrote:
The premier motocross class in the premier series of the whole world and some unknown trail rider comes in and kicks ass almost cracking the top...
The premier motocross class in the premier series of the whole world and some unknown trail rider comes in and kicks ass almost cracking the top ten on a practice bike. What does it all mean?
It means that you don't pay much attention to motocross. That unknown trail rider raced at LL's from the time he was on 65's all the way through the A class. He raced a half dozen nationals last year, and almost got points at Budds. Throw in the mud and his background and I don't think it's a big surprise that he got 16th. Maybe you should celebrate his ride on the smoker instead of using it to indict the sport of motocross?

The Shop

Spartacus
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6/28/2015 12:34pm
Funny how when given a little poke with a stick some people really jump.
ATKpilot99
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6/28/2015 12:38pm
yakrider wrote:
Not sure if you are being serious or not, but the MXGPs are the premier series (in terms of rider talent and depth of field) in...
Not sure if you are being serious or not, but the MXGPs are the premier series (in terms of rider talent and depth of field) in motocross. Anyone who let their pride down for a moment would see that.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
And that's a good thing for do nothing keyboard jockeys such as yourself who can live vicariously through them.
yakrider wrote:
It's a message board where these things are talked about. Put on your big boy pants and stop crying about others.
Lmao
6/28/2015 1:03pm
newmann wrote:
The premier motocross class in the premier series of the whole world and some unknown trail rider comes in and kicks ass almost cracking the top...
The premier motocross class in the premier series of the whole world and some unknown trail rider comes in and kicks ass almost cracking the top ten on a practice bike. What does it all mean?
Who you calling unknown??? What's sad is the TV coverage did not talk about unknown rider your talking about and finishing top 15 on a bike underpowered to his competition. That's sad!!! This is one reason the sport has a hard time growing because the sport puts only a top few riders up on a pedestal (which is great) and fails to look at the other 35 guys out racing too. This may be one reason someone may think he's unknown. as well maybe a reason he may not have a BIG $$$ sponsor or support because of the lack of coverage he received for finishing top 15 in the premier series. luckily I know Cody and is awesome what he's doing with the 250 two stroke, and awesome job Cody!!! The sport has a few reasons it has a hard time growing but the coverage is one. but all in all moto is still awesome !!
mark_swart
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6/28/2015 1:10pm
yakrider wrote:
Not sure if you are being serious or not, but the MXGPs are the premier series (in terms of rider talent and depth of field) in...
Not sure if you are being serious or not, but the MXGPs are the premier series (in terms of rider talent and depth of field) in motocross. Anyone who let their pride down for a moment would see that.
Uh....sure... and I guess that's why Roczen, Reed, Musquin, Pourcel, Rattray, Townley, Langston, Albertyn, Tortelli, Pichon, Bayle (shall I go on?) left MXGP to come to America and race Supercross?
IceMan446
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6/28/2015 1:33pm
What does it all mean???

The kid rode great, and got a helping hand from the mud.

He said it himself.
steed 2.0
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6/28/2015 1:36pm
mark_swart wrote:
Uh....sure... and I guess that's why Roczen, Reed, Musquin, Pourcel, Rattray, Townley, Langston, Albertyn, Tortelli, Pichon, Bayle (shall I go on?) left MXGP to come to...
Uh....sure... and I guess that's why Roczen, Reed, Musquin, Pourcel, Rattray, Townley, Langston, Albertyn, Tortelli, Pichon, Bayle (shall I go on?) left MXGP to come to America and race Supercross?
Proves nothing nice try Demagogue
RMT
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6/28/2015 1:54pm Edited Date/Time 6/28/2015 1:58pm
burn1986 wrote:
Yep, unfortunately the sport has experienced some fatal blows IMO. First, the 4-stroke takeover in the midst of a struggling economy. Second, the division of media...
Yep, unfortunately the sport has experienced some fatal blows IMO. First, the 4-stroke takeover in the midst of a struggling economy. Second, the division of media coverage and limited accesibility of watching the races. Third, the control and greed of the promoters and AMA, regardless of the health of the sport.

What has been the result - Overly expensive sport, more limited fan base, and little to no return on investment of sponsors and teams with almost no payout to riders.
I see these reasons talked about many times on here about the expense of the sport. This is my take on your points. Not trying to argue, your opinion is valid, but just my thoughts.

The four strokes pretty much had taken over by 05. The motorcycle industry reached it's peak in 06 and the US economy took a dive in late 08. So, to me, the so called 4 stroke takeover was in full effect before anything bad had happened in the economy. Also, the 4 stroke takeover was driven by the consumers. Yamaha brought out the YZF and everybody purchased one. Look back at the OEM share in the competition category in the early 00's and you can track it very clearly. Yamaha had a hold until the CRF came out. Suzuki and Kawasaki floundered. In 03 and 04 you couldn't give an RM250 away and by 06 no dealers were ordering them. This was not driven by the OEM's. Pro racing was a different animal and Yamaha and Honda have always had the HP in that arena. You can still buy a great two stroke MX bike today and they are not really that much cheaper than the 4 strokes. Only hardcore racers put much more than 60-70 hours on a bike and usually sell it before it was ever rebuilt. So if you took averages, I would almost bet for the largest percentage of owners, the 4 stroke with just oil changes was cheaper than the 2 stroke which had a piston or two put in it. This is a racer forum, so guys don't need to tell me how they blew up 5 250f's and rebuild their engines every other month. You are the minority.

We can now see almost all Supercross, AMA nationals, MXGP, British Nationals and Canadian Nationals on TV as well as Arenacross, GNCC's and even AMA flattrack. Never could you see so much Off-road motorcycle racing on TV before now.

Promoters have always had a reputation for being greedy, this is nothing new. Not saying they are, but like the rest of the population, a few bad ones ruin it for all the good ones.

Bottom line is life is more expensive than it was 15 years ago. People didn't have $250 phone plans for the whole family, $100 a month for internet and $200 a month cable plans back then. How many of us have multiple $1000+ TV's in our home and buy a new computer every 3-4 years? That is a lot of expense that could go to other activities and in years past, did. Also, $20,000 UTV's outsell MX bikes by a big margin. I'm not so sure all the problems with MX are related to $8000 new bikes.
steed 2.0
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6/28/2015 2:06pm
RMT, I couldn't agree more

my 4t mx bike 40 hour max a year my 2t enduro bike sometimes 40 hour a week
Outsider
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6/28/2015 2:09pm
RMT wrote:
I see these reasons talked about many times on here about the expense of the sport. This is my take on your points. Not trying to...
I see these reasons talked about many times on here about the expense of the sport. This is my take on your points. Not trying to argue, your opinion is valid, but just my thoughts.

The four strokes pretty much had taken over by 05. The motorcycle industry reached it's peak in 06 and the US economy took a dive in late 08. So, to me, the so called 4 stroke takeover was in full effect before anything bad had happened in the economy. Also, the 4 stroke takeover was driven by the consumers. Yamaha brought out the YZF and everybody purchased one. Look back at the OEM share in the competition category in the early 00's and you can track it very clearly. Yamaha had a hold until the CRF came out. Suzuki and Kawasaki floundered. In 03 and 04 you couldn't give an RM250 away and by 06 no dealers were ordering them. This was not driven by the OEM's. Pro racing was a different animal and Yamaha and Honda have always had the HP in that arena. You can still buy a great two stroke MX bike today and they are not really that much cheaper than the 4 strokes. Only hardcore racers put much more than 60-70 hours on a bike and usually sell it before it was ever rebuilt. So if you took averages, I would almost bet for the largest percentage of owners, the 4 stroke with just oil changes was cheaper than the 2 stroke which had a piston or two put in it. This is a racer forum, so guys don't need to tell me how they blew up 5 250f's and rebuild their engines every other month. You are the minority.

We can now see almost all Supercross, AMA nationals, MXGP, British Nationals and Canadian Nationals on TV as well as Arenacross, GNCC's and even AMA flattrack. Never could you see so much Off-road motorcycle racing on TV before now.

Promoters have always had a reputation for being greedy, this is nothing new. Not saying they are, but like the rest of the population, a few bad ones ruin it for all the good ones.

Bottom line is life is more expensive than it was 15 years ago. People didn't have $250 phone plans for the whole family, $100 a month for internet and $200 a month cable plans back then. How many of us have multiple $1000+ TV's in our home and buy a new computer every 3-4 years? That is a lot of expense that could go to other activities and in years past, did. Also, $20,000 UTV's outsell MX bikes by a big margin. I'm not so sure all the problems with MX are related to $8000 new bikes.
QFT

Great post.
RMT
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6/28/2015 2:31pm
steed 2.0 wrote:
RMT, I couldn't agree more

my 4t mx bike 40 hour max a year my 2t enduro bike sometimes 40 hour a week
Your a lucky man to be able to ride 40 hours a week.
steed 2.0
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6/28/2015 2:35pm
RMT wrote:
Your a lucky man to be able to ride 40 hours a week.
Second home in Romania love Hunting and Hard Enduro
newmann
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6/28/2015 2:39pm
Spartacus wrote:
Funny how when given a little poke with a stick some people really jump.
Yet they all brag about how they understand sarcasm. Some just need a little recalibration I guess. Wink

And I did celebrate his great ride on the smoker in the other thread but was horsewhipped there also.Shocked

mx836
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6/28/2015 2:54pm
yakrider wrote:
It's a message board where these things are talked about. Put on your big boy pants and stop crying about others.
Bit hypocritical, no? These things aren't talked about when you're involved in the conversation. Your opinion is the end all, be all, and that's why nobody here can stand your utter garbage.
Helder
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6/28/2015 4:04pm
yakrider wrote:
Not sure about the two strove versus four debate, but bringing back two stroke would return motocross to its grassroots a bit. I agree that both...
Not sure about the two strove versus four debate, but bringing back two stroke would return motocross to its grassroots a bit. I agree that both series have talent, I just also happen to think that at the moment, the GPs have more depth in their classes.
MtnBoy wrote:
Classes? No

450 Class...maybe

250 Class...US Series has the covered all day long and twice on Sunday
So now that RV went to Europe half cocked and not really into racing anymore and he didn't dominate the GP's are better, its a different type of racing if AC went to the US at the end of his career and not into it and only doing it to see a contract out and god smashed would you say that now the US is the premier series in the world?
6/28/2015 5:23pm
newmann wrote:
The premier motocross class in the premier series of the whole world and some unknown trail rider comes in and kicks ass almost cracking the top...
The premier motocross class in the premier series of the whole world and some unknown trail rider comes in and kicks ass almost cracking the top ten on a practice bike. What does it all mean?
GrapeApe wrote:
It means that you don't pay much attention to motocross. That unknown trail rider raced at LL's from the time he was on 65's all the...
It means that you don't pay much attention to motocross. That unknown trail rider raced at LL's from the time he was on 65's all the way through the A class. He raced a half dozen nationals last year, and almost got points at Budds. Throw in the mud and his background and I don't think it's a big surprise that he got 16th. Maybe you should celebrate his ride on the smoker instead of using it to indict the sport of motocross?
newman is the same guy who didn't know there was a c class at LL...
6/28/2015 5:24pm
Premiere motocross series is MXGP now.
yakrider wrote:
Not sure if you are being serious or not, but the MXGPs are the premier series (in terms of rider talent and depth of field) in...
Not sure if you are being serious or not, but the MXGPs are the premier series (in terms of rider talent and depth of field) in motocross. Anyone who let their pride down for a moment would see that.
thats why they can't fill a gate
newmann
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6/28/2015 5:32pm
newman is the same guy who didn't know there was a c class at LL...
?

I'm the guy who can't understand the point of a C class national champion. But yeah I can see where your lack of reading comprehension comes into play. New anonymous username come with a new personality?
hillbilly
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6/28/2015 5:38pm
i cant figure out what the fuck this thread is about,
6/28/2015 5:38pm Edited Date/Time 6/28/2015 5:40pm
newman is the same guy who didn't know there was a c class at LL...
newmann wrote:
? I'm the guy who can't understand the point of a C class national champion. But yeah I can see where your lack of reading comprehension...
?

I'm the guy who can't understand the point of a C class national champion. But yeah I can see where your lack of reading comprehension comes into play. New anonymous username come with a new personality?
I'd rather have you respond to grapeapes post, he called you out perfectly and you ignored it. I could be mistaken but you said in so many words that you didn't know that there was a c class at ll. No biggie, I just think the point of your thread is stupid
newmann
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6/28/2015 5:48pm
Already replied that I celebrated his ride over in the other thread. Point is, 99% of the people watching the race had no idea who he was since he isn't a mx rockstar and the 2 stroke haters were throwing up in their mouths. Good times!

And yes, you were mistaken.
T.Page
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6/28/2015 5:57pm
I swear Newman dumped a load in hoagie_chump000's companion. Hoagie_ chump is a douche.
6/28/2015 6:00pm
newmann wrote:
Already replied that I celebrated his ride over in the other thread. Point is, 99% of the people watching the race had no idea who he...
Already replied that I celebrated his ride over in the other thread. Point is, 99% of the people watching the race had no idea who he was since he isn't a mx rockstar and the 2 stroke haters were throwing up in their mouths. Good times!

And yes, you were mistaken.
You never replied to the fact that your assertion that motocross is in a sad state is WRONG, and the reason you gave for it is ludicrous and not a good example if you were trying to prove that Moto is in a "sad" state atm.
I guess you old farts want the old days were dudes were drinking beers and riding pot metal scooters, well now its a little different. We have top level athletes and the competition is bigger (more people riding) then ever, it looks to be on a downturn but its hardly in a sad state.
kzizok
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6/28/2015 6:07pm
It means that the comment that "mud is the equalizer" is true statement.

It also means that a top offroad rider who is also a very good mx rider has good mud skills, had some luck on his side and performed well. No decleration that the premier class is not truely the premier class because that happened.
6/28/2015 6:23pm
T.Page wrote:
I swear Newman dumped a load in hoagie_chump000's companion. Hoagie_ chump is a douche.
newman has a whiteknight now that is sad
burn1986
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6/28/2015 7:28pm
newmann wrote:
The premier motocross class in the premier series of the whole world and some unknown trail rider comes in and kicks ass almost cracking the top...
The premier motocross class in the premier series of the whole world and some unknown trail rider comes in and kicks ass almost cracking the top ten on a practice bike. What does it all mean?
GrapeApe wrote:
It means that you don't pay much attention to motocross. That unknown trail rider raced at LL's from the time he was on 65's all the...
It means that you don't pay much attention to motocross. That unknown trail rider raced at LL's from the time he was on 65's all the way through the A class. He raced a half dozen nationals last year, and almost got points at Budds. Throw in the mud and his background and I don't think it's a big surprise that he got 16th. Maybe you should celebrate his ride on the smoker instead of using it to indict the sport of motocross?
Yeah, everyone who follows MX knows Cody Gragg. Dry

burn1986
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6/28/2015 7:32pm
newmann wrote:
Already replied that I celebrated his ride over in the other thread. Point is, 99% of the people watching the race had no idea who he...
Already replied that I celebrated his ride over in the other thread. Point is, 99% of the people watching the race had no idea who he was since he isn't a mx rockstar and the 2 stroke haters were throwing up in their mouths. Good times!

And yes, you were mistaken.
You never replied to the fact that your assertion that motocross is in a sad state is WRONG, and the reason you gave for it is...
You never replied to the fact that your assertion that motocross is in a sad state is WRONG, and the reason you gave for it is ludicrous and not a good example if you were trying to prove that Moto is in a "sad" state atm.
I guess you old farts want the old days were dudes were drinking beers and riding pot metal scooters, well now its a little different. We have top level athletes and the competition is bigger (more people riding) then ever, it looks to be on a downturn but its hardly in a sad state.
Everything's great, There's no problems. In fact, it turns out that I had more money than I thought. Heck, i don't need to save. I'll just go buy a brand new bike, a new car, new house, new land, and new bulldozer. Damn the cost! Finally, life is great now, there are absolutely no real problems anywhere!!

Thanks man, I'm actually gonna make it now!Woohoo

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