SX needs more dirt

aeffertz
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11/18/2016 5:44pm
How do we make this happen?

Bikes these days are much faster than they were in 2002 yet the track size is the same. There's room for more track but yet they use the same amount as 25 years ago.

I just look at some of these plans and think of the wasted space. 50 second lap times are weak.




And the new US Bank Stadium in Minnesota has a huge retractable section that creates a much larger floor space, yet they don't utilize that at all.




And even if the length doesn't change, how about more dirt to make bigger and better obsticles? I'm sure they make enough money off these events to haul in a few more truck loads of dirt.
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kmp1219
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11/18/2016 5:53pm
Never thought about it like that. Could be interesting
731chopper
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11/18/2016 5:54pm Edited Date/Time 11/18/2016 5:55pm
I agree with you but I don't see it changing, unfortunately.

I remember the first time SX went to the new Cowboys Stadium and all my friends and I could talk about was how much wasted space there was on the floor.
11/18/2016 6:07pm
The New Orleans super dome was so big they parked the big rig trailers on the floor around the track.
Dtat720
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11/18/2016 6:24pm
Run out of tv time pushing upper 50 second lap times. Takes ad dollars away from the hosting channel. Ofcourse you could cut the sideline reporting and all the hoopla, but then it gets less interesting to new viewers. Cater to the fans? Or try and draw in new fans and potential riders?

The Shop

Switch
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11/18/2016 6:24pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2016 5:54am
I agree, but the cost and time it takes to bring in more dirt for the build and haul out more dirt afterwards would affect the trackbuild staffing and potentially the length of the building leases. There's more to it than just saying they need bigger tracks or berms or even using more floor space.

While dirt is definitely expensive at that quality, the cost is spread out much more than "just" the cost of dirt itself.
kzizok
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11/18/2016 6:29pm
Do they use a "set" amount, no matter the venue?
cable
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11/18/2016 6:29pm
imagine a set of triples that the 250s couldn't do, just like the 125 days.
yak651
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11/18/2016 7:20pm
Problem is they want the track to "flow" so it looks fast to the spectators and is "fun" for the top guys. If they made things peaked out to shoot riders up instead of out it would slow things down, but that's not going to happen
JustMX
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11/18/2016 7:44pm
There are a lot of other factors that can affect the amount of usable floor space.

There may be areas or installations that the facility do not want covered or that could create an unreasonable expense to use.

distance from seating as a very important consideration as well.

While it might look like a safe distance stop and consider how much more powerful the bikes are and what happens if things go wrong.

After a bike went into the upper level at an arenacross Feld started cutting down berms anywhere near seating. it was either that or kill prime seating.

The fact is that technology has exceeded the limits of indoor tracks. making the lanes longer and speeds higher is not going to improve the racing enough to make it worth the expense and risk.

They had more room at MEC sx andIMO it didn't really make the racing better.
zehn
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11/18/2016 7:45pm Edited Date/Time 11/18/2016 7:45pm
Yeah, you probably shouldn't make generalizations based on 3D renderings of stadiums, just saying...
aeffertz
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11/18/2016 7:49pm
zehn wrote:
Yeah, you probably shouldn't make generalizations based on 3D renderings of stadiums, just saying...
Look at any of the previous year's tracks. These were quick and easy to pull up.

Thanks for the quality input though.
lostboy819
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11/18/2016 8:01pm
The superdome always had a huge amount of wasted space ,so much that the factory rigs parked on the floor by the track so it is nothing new.
aeffertz
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11/18/2016 8:44pm
JustMX wrote:
There are a lot of other factors that can affect the amount of usable floor space. There may be areas or installations that the facility do...
There are a lot of other factors that can affect the amount of usable floor space.

There may be areas or installations that the facility do not want covered or that could create an unreasonable expense to use.

distance from seating as a very important consideration as well.

While it might look like a safe distance stop and consider how much more powerful the bikes are and what happens if things go wrong.

After a bike went into the upper level at an arenacross Feld started cutting down berms anywhere near seating. it was either that or kill prime seating.

The fact is that technology has exceeded the limits of indoor tracks. making the lanes longer and speeds higher is not going to improve the racing enough to make it worth the expense and risk.

They had more room at MEC sx andIMO it didn't really make the racing better.
All good points, but even if they added more dirt to the current layouts/floor space they'd be able to make better tracks. Elevated corners, big single roller, bigger berms, etc.
kkawboy14
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11/18/2016 9:40pm
Add 1 more lane and 2 wall jumps
Radical
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11/18/2016 9:58pm
Bigger tracks would be great!
If that's not an option for safety or other reasons, I suggest we change from a set number of laps to 20 minutes + 1 or 2 laps.
ufsx459
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11/18/2016 10:11pm
In my opinion the tracks are not nearly as technical as they once were. I understand the safety reasoning behind that and the new fan aspect as well, but is it just me or are the tracks just far to fast nowadays?

Fearo
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11/19/2016 2:07am
ufsx459 wrote:
In my opinion the tracks are not nearly as technical as they once were. I understand the safety reasoning behind that and the new fan aspect...
In my opinion the tracks are not nearly as technical as they once were. I understand the safety reasoning behind that and the new fan aspect as well, but is it just me or are the tracks just far to fast nowadays?

Yes they are, because the general public wants to see a "show" and doesn't care for technicality.

They don't want to see A 250F having to rail a corner perfectly in order to just be able to stretch it out over a triple, they want to see guys coming up with an abundance of speed so that they can scrub or throw whips.
JustMX
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11/19/2016 4:18am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Add 1 more lane and 2 wall jumps
Um........

Unless you decide not to use the start straight it is hard to add just one lane.

Otherwise you end up with straight rhythm with a few corners.
Starcrossed
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11/19/2016 4:26am
Switch wrote:
I agree, but the cost and time it takes to bring in more dirt for the build and haul out more dirt afterwards would affect the...
I agree, but the cost and time it takes to bring in more dirt for the build and haul out more dirt afterwards would affect the trackbuild staffing and potentially the length of the building leases. There's more to it than just saying they need bigger tracks or berms or even using more floor space.

While dirt is definitely expensive at that quality, the cost is spread out much more than "just" the cost of dirt itself.
I think these are the foremost considerations. It probably isn't possible to add another two days to the "load in, load out" process. A track needs to be built in a different city every weekend, with only one traveling crew.
busta_FATmoto
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11/19/2016 5:22am
Imagine you had 4 days to turn a football or baseball stadium into a racetrack. 2 of these days you are hauling in dirt. There isn't time for more dirt. Those guys are working 80 plus hrs a week
mx_phreek
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11/19/2016 6:25am
There is about on average only 1h 15mins of bikes actually on track racing total in a 3h show. There is room to do something in that. At least make the mains 20 min length instead of 20 laps. Doesn't matter about lap time then, they can then get creative with design. You'll get first couple races around the 50 sec lap time then they'll start to slip throughout the year and drop to 42 at certain tracks.
akillerwombat
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11/19/2016 7:28am
zehn wrote:
Yeah, you probably shouldn't make generalizations based on 3D renderings of stadiums, just saying...
aeffertz wrote:
Look at any of the previous year's tracks. These were quick and easy to pull up.

Thanks for the quality input though.
Like this?

JW381
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11/19/2016 10:31am
To me, wasted floor space is far less the issue than the designs themselves. Old SX races are closer to Endurocross races than modern SX. All I ever want to see is interesting obstacles that showcase rider ability and creativity. I know they can square up a bowl turn, seat bounce a triple, and scrub the finish line. The maps looks somewhat more interesting for 2017. I think the last great year was the rider designed tracks, 08 I believe? I just saw a video on Instagram from 2000, if I remember correctly that had a 90 sweeping corner whoop section. I wanna see more shit like that.
ufsx459
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11/19/2016 2:40pm
Imagine you had 4 days to turn a football or baseball stadium into a racetrack. 2 of these days you are hauling in dirt. There isn't...
Imagine you had 4 days to turn a football or baseball stadium into a racetrack. 2 of these days you are hauling in dirt. There isn't time for more dirt. Those guys are working 80 plus hrs a week
This is a solid point that is often over looked. I hadn't thought of that perspective much but given the amount of time they have to create the tracks could very well be a factor. Although I think they have more like a week to get it all squared away but I could be mistaken.
busta_FATmoto
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11/19/2016 2:46pm
Imagine you had 4 days to turn a football or baseball stadium into a racetrack. 2 of these days you are hauling in dirt. There isn't...
Imagine you had 4 days to turn a football or baseball stadium into a racetrack. 2 of these days you are hauling in dirt. There isn't time for more dirt. Those guys are working 80 plus hrs a week
ufsx459 wrote:
This is a solid point that is often over looked. I hadn't thought of that perspective much but given the amount of time they have to...
This is a solid point that is often over looked. I hadn't thought of that perspective much but given the amount of time they have to create the tracks could very well be a factor. Although I think they have more like a week to get it all squared away but I could be mistaken.
Loading out the old stadium Saturday night and Sunday, travel Monday, and load in the new stadium Tuesday.
colorado2day
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11/19/2016 2:58pm
Slow things down with some 2nd gear switchbacks. Would add to lap times , tighten up the field, allow for more passing opportunities and not get anybody hurt. Unless Anderson or Peick were involved. Maybe a few more truckloads of dirt.
kkawboy14
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11/19/2016 4:59pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2016 4:59pm
Slow things down with some 2nd gear switchbacks. Would add to lap times , tighten up the field, allow for more passing opportunities and not get...
Slow things down with some 2nd gear switchbacks. Would add to lap times , tighten up the field, allow for more passing opportunities and not get anybody hurt. Unless Anderson or Peick were involved. Maybe a few more truckloads of dirt.
2 wall jumps, shorter start straight and make each lane a little narrower. Oh and 30 man mains!
colorado2day
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11/19/2016 5:38pm
Slow things down with some 2nd gear switchbacks. Would add to lap times , tighten up the field, allow for more passing opportunities and not get...
Slow things down with some 2nd gear switchbacks. Would add to lap times , tighten up the field, allow for more passing opportunities and not get anybody hurt. Unless Anderson or Peick were involved. Maybe a few more truckloads of dirt.
kkawboy14 wrote:
2 wall jumps, shorter start straight and make each lane a little narrower. Oh and 30 man mains!
Yeah. Leading up to the 2nd gear turns.
You should call Mr. Winkler and tell him
kkawboy14
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11/20/2016 6:09am
Slow things down with some 2nd gear switchbacks. Would add to lap times , tighten up the field, allow for more passing opportunities and not get...
Slow things down with some 2nd gear switchbacks. Would add to lap times , tighten up the field, allow for more passing opportunities and not get anybody hurt. Unless Anderson or Peick were involved. Maybe a few more truckloads of dirt.
kkawboy14 wrote:
2 wall jumps, shorter start straight and make each lane a little narrower. Oh and 30 man mains!
Yeah. Leading up to the 2nd gear turns.
You should call Mr. Winkler and tell him
If it was half as long what gear would they be in, since they start in second?
Starcrossed
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11/20/2016 6:41am
There may also be limitations on how much dirt that Feld can store within a reasonable distance from the stadiums. Not sure if it has to be covered when not in use, but I've heard it does. Be great to hear from someone who knows. It mustn't be inexpensive to store dirt in major metropolitan areas.

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