SX audience retention

3/6/2017 8:39am
A couple weeks ago I was visiting the out-laws and they watched the race with me. Mind you, they are not motorcyclists in the least bit and usually tell me to sell my bikes whenever the topic arises. Personally, I'd say I'm at an enthusiast's level and coming up on year 24 in the AMA. Their assessment was that whoever gets the holeshot was going to win or come close to it in the mains. My argument was that anything could happen, Dungey could mess up and crash or who knows!?! ... Dungey holeshot ... Dungey wins. I looked around the room and half were asleep or nearly asleep. They did, however, say the 250 race was exciting when one KTM teammate punted the other off the track.

With the extra time on the track, it hasn't provided much more excitement. Ralph and Jeff do a fine job, but really, I think their level of enthusiasm during the broadcast is nearing golf levels. In today's environment, I think if we had broadcasters in the same style of that of E-sports (Yeah, flame on I used to watch E-sports a bit) we could build excitement better. It's not all on the broadcaster of course. You can only do so much when guys are playing follow the leader for 20+2 and there are only 2 or 3 good moments. I still think major format changes are needed. I'm not going to copy/paste my last forum post on that topic. You can look at my post history and find it pretty quick as I don't post all that often.

But really, do you think with SX in its current form is in a position to grow the sport? We don't need enthusiasts that follow the sport and read Vital on a daily basis for the latest rumor. We need the general motorsport fans to watch and boost audience numbers to 1m+. That will bring in more sponsors and elevate the sport as a whole.

TL;DR
- Is it important to grow the sport beyond its current levels?
---------------- Yes, growth = outside sponsors = money = better support for riders = better coverage = growth = outside sponsors = money ... you get the picture
- What are the driving forces that are impeding SX from growing?
---------------- Format, Announcers, Track Design. Need outside-the-box thinking when it involves all three. Requires overhaul to improve audience experience. Why is this important? See item 1.

*************** EDIT ***************

I created a simple survey found at the link below based on the responses to this thread. Feel free to share it openly and I will share the results in this thread regularly based on feedback.

Survey Link: https://kwiksurveys.com/s/EY7XTJAz
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IWreckALot
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3/6/2017 8:45am
I'm just trying to figure out how Ken Roczen has 926,000 followers on ig, Dungey has 786k, but we only have half of that watching the races. Kinda bizarre.

I don't know how they measure ratings. I think I had heard at one time, they count live viewings and anyone that watches the recorded race within one day of the airing. Anyone know if that's true?
dsmith
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3/6/2017 9:25am
I have a friend that never even watched sx/mx before..i turned him on to it about 5 years ago... and he would text me call me, etc.. about the race.....his fav rider was poto....he even paid $ to watch poto race mxgp's...but as soon as poto retired...he became totally uninterested...wouldn't even watch races no more..well recently I started asking him about watchin racing...and hes slowly coming back...his fav rider is m.mouskinn.....
mjr119
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3/6/2017 9:34am
I was watching the race with a former professional rider, a current factory mechanic, and an enthusiast. I looked over and all were asleep halfway thru the 250 main. I was asleep shortly after the 450 main started. Not sure what the issue is?
3/6/2017 9:39am
IWreckALot wrote:
I'm just trying to figure out how Ken Roczen has 926,000 followers on ig, Dungey has 786k, but we only have half of that watching the...
I'm just trying to figure out how Ken Roczen has 926,000 followers on ig, Dungey has 786k, but we only have half of that watching the races. Kinda bizarre.

I don't know how they measure ratings. I think I had heard at one time, they count live viewings and anyone that watches the recorded race within one day of the airing. Anyone know if that's true?
Curious about the same thing. I imagine only a portion have access to Fox Sports 1 or 2 and can watch it during their recorded timeframe. For me, if I were to get Fox Sports I'd have to pay another 100 on my sat bill. I think that's an entirely different topic. IE. Make the content On-demand and paid for ala HBO Now versus HBO Go. I do that for almost all the shows I watch. I don't get AMC or the History Channel so i purchase The Walking Dead & Vikings via iTunes and watch the new episodes a day later.

Then, I'm not even sure as to the availability to international viewers. Add all those up and you'd probably be getting close to the number of followers versus the number of viewers.

The Shop

Juice_Mann
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3/6/2017 9:41am
dsmith wrote:
I have a friend that never even watched sx/mx before..i turned him on to it about 5 years ago... and he would text me call me...
I have a friend that never even watched sx/mx before..i turned him on to it about 5 years ago... and he would text me call me, etc.. about the race.....his fav rider was poto....he even paid $ to watch poto race mxgp's...but as soon as poto retired...he became totally uninterested...wouldn't even watch races no more..well recently I started asking him about watchin racing...and hes slowly coming back...his fav rider is m.mouskinn.....
That seems a bit extreme, but I understand to an extent. RV has always been my favorite. By far the sickest and most aggressive style I've ever seen. The racing was more exciting with him on the line.
3/6/2017 9:57am Edited Date/Time 3/6/2017 10:13am
IWreckALot wrote:
I'm just trying to figure out how Ken Roczen has 926,000 followers on ig, Dungey has 786k, but we only have half of that watching the...
I'm just trying to figure out how Ken Roczen has 926,000 followers on ig, Dungey has 786k, but we only have half of that watching the races. Kinda bizarre.

I don't know how they measure ratings. I think I had heard at one time, they count live viewings and anyone that watches the recorded race within one day of the airing. Anyone know if that's true?
The vast majority of athletes who are at the top of their sport have a significantly larger number of social media followers than weekly TV viewers.

The Cavs-Warriors championship rematch, Christmas 2016, one of the highest rated regular-season NBA games in history, drew average 10.1M viewers. Lebron James has 30M Instagram followers, 34.4M Twitter followers..
IWreckALot
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3/6/2017 10:17am
IWreckALot wrote:
I'm just trying to figure out how Ken Roczen has 926,000 followers on ig, Dungey has 786k, but we only have half of that watching the...
I'm just trying to figure out how Ken Roczen has 926,000 followers on ig, Dungey has 786k, but we only have half of that watching the races. Kinda bizarre.

I don't know how they measure ratings. I think I had heard at one time, they count live viewings and anyone that watches the recorded race within one day of the airing. Anyone know if that's true?
The vast majority of athletes who are at the top of their sport have a significantly larger number of social media followers than weekly TV viewers...
The vast majority of athletes who are at the top of their sport have a significantly larger number of social media followers than weekly TV viewers.

The Cavs-Warriors championship rematch, Christmas 2016, one of the highest rated regular-season NBA games in history, drew average 10.1M viewers. Lebron James has 30M Instagram followers, 34.4M Twitter followers..
Interesting. I have a hard time imagining THAT many people follow someone that they don't have interest in enough to watch what they do. But I guess there are people that follow professional athletes without watching them compete.
nickm
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3/6/2017 10:29am
Just my own thoughts on this.

-3 hour show is way too long. Drop the lcqs and prep the track so the tracks are groomed for the main event. People want to see the top riders at their maximum potential...not a whoop section with an 18" deep rut in it and riders complaning about how the track deteriorated.
- Should be a 2 hour tv show and 3 hour live in the stadium.
-there is no time spent hyping up the rider or machine. Science of supercross is a good start but would be great to what emig and rc analyse a specific pass or race incident.
- Fans like being fans, hype up the machines, let them enjoy the moto porn.
- fans like being fans... Rider profiles need to be less about the "struggled all their lives and got inspired to do something great when some fucking random event happened" and more about how these dudes kick ass. Its not american fucking idol so i dont care that someones mom was on crack and their toy lego collection got stolen by their abusive dad....faaak that shit drives me nuts.
-give people some history...not the grainy crappy video clip of an old supercross race but something awesome...like hannah beating everyone at mxdn when he was an old dude on a shitty rm125..focus on the moto porn and how hannah was just so kick ass.
-stop all the sideshow bs...look everyone likes a hot babe but can we limit it to holding up signs and standing beside the rider with an umbrella or some shit like that like they do in motogp?
-talk about what e fuck is going on, make it about the personalities. Who the fuck is roger decoster and why does he always look pissed off? Its because the dude has won everything and hes pissed off unless hes got the 1 plate in his hands...he takes shitty teams and shitty bikes and turns them golden. Etc. Give people something to remember and to relate to

Rant over.
TXDirt
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3/6/2017 10:30am
IWreckALot wrote:
Interesting. I have a hard time imagining THAT many people follow someone that they don't have interest in enough to watch what they do. But I...
Interesting. I have a hard time imagining THAT many people follow someone that they don't have interest in enough to watch what they do. But I guess there are people that follow professional athletes without watching them compete.
Look at how many people wear basketball shoes but don't play basketball.
GuyB
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3/6/2017 10:42am
mjr119 wrote:
I was watching the race with a former professional rider, a current factory mechanic, and an enthusiast. I looked over and all were asleep halfway thru...
I was watching the race with a former professional rider, a current factory mechanic, and an enthusiast. I looked over and all were asleep halfway thru the 250 main. I was asleep shortly after the 450 main started. Not sure what the issue is?
Lack of sleep, and lots of PBR? Wink
#76
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3/6/2017 10:51am
I for one would love to know who the Factory mechanic is! Whistling
disbanded
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3/6/2017 10:56am
There is a point around 8 laps or so where you could fast forward to the last lap and nothing would have changed. I blame track design...
WillMX114
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3/6/2017 11:06am
nickm wrote:
Just my own thoughts on this. -3 hour show is way too long. Drop the lcqs and prep the track so the tracks are groomed for...
Just my own thoughts on this.

-3 hour show is way too long. Drop the lcqs and prep the track so the tracks are groomed for the main event. People want to see the top riders at their maximum potential...not a whoop section with an 18" deep rut in it and riders complaning about how the track deteriorated.
- Should be a 2 hour tv show and 3 hour live in the stadium.
-there is no time spent hyping up the rider or machine. Science of supercross is a good start but would be great to what emig and rc analyse a specific pass or race incident.
- Fans like being fans, hype up the machines, let them enjoy the moto porn.
- fans like being fans... Rider profiles need to be less about the "struggled all their lives and got inspired to do something great when some fucking random event happened" and more about how these dudes kick ass. Its not american fucking idol so i dont care that someones mom was on crack and their toy lego collection got stolen by their abusive dad....faaak that shit drives me nuts.
-give people some history...not the grainy crappy video clip of an old supercross race but something awesome...like hannah beating everyone at mxdn when he was an old dude on a shitty rm125..focus on the moto porn and how hannah was just so kick ass.
-stop all the sideshow bs...look everyone likes a hot babe but can we limit it to holding up signs and standing beside the rider with an umbrella or some shit like that like they do in motogp?
-talk about what e fuck is going on, make it about the personalities. Who the fuck is roger decoster and why does he always look pissed off? Its because the dude has won everything and hes pissed off unless hes got the 1 plate in his hands...he takes shitty teams and shitty bikes and turns them golden. Etc. Give people something to remember and to relate to

Rant over.
Agreed, especially with the first part. I wish the track was groomed to perfection before both mains. Would make racing much closer imo.
ga_pike
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3/6/2017 11:13am
NASCAR has struggled with decreased attendance and viewership recently and implemented the stage format this season. It's very similar to a 3 moto format... I think the multi-moto format may be beneficial... I'm not sure if you need a gimmick like the briefcase in AX though.
SPYGUY
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3/6/2017 11:17am
I agree that the TV show needs to be condensed down to 2 hours. Show the qualifying races, tape delayed, in the first hour and then the main events live in the second hour.

Also, more Troy Adamitis type shows in the days/weeks leading up to the season would be the absolute best way to get people interested. I know it would cost a ton of money but in the long run I believe it would pay dividends.
Fourth_Floor
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3/6/2017 11:33am
I don't agree on the TV show being condensed down to 2 hours. The more coverage the better. Some of the best racing is in the qualifiers and LCQ's!!!!

They should start the show earlier in the day, say 5:00. Half us East coasters are zonked out b/c the main event's don't get on till midnight here.

akillerwombat
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3/6/2017 11:39am
If even the most "moto" of people, people who come to a moto board to talk moto, are falling asleep at the start of the 450 race it's clearly not the length of the show but the show itself.

Based on my previous experiences with sports broadcasting / marketing there are many smaller things we could do to retain / increase viewership but as someone who is constantly trying to get people to watch the races with me the biggest problem is the points. It's damn near impossible to make giving up your Saturday night sound exciting when you have to convince the person that knows nothing of the sport that, pending a crash or bike malfunction from the guy in first place, the guy in second place has to win the next 10 races to have a chance at seeing a new champion.

3/6/2017 11:44am Edited Date/Time 3/6/2017 12:25pm
mjr119 wrote:
I was watching the race with a former professional rider, a current factory mechanic, and an enthusiast. I looked over and all were asleep halfway thru...
I was watching the race with a former professional rider, a current factory mechanic, and an enthusiast. I looked over and all were asleep halfway thru the 250 main. I was asleep shortly after the 450 main started. Not sure what the issue is?
The real issue is the basic product: motocross crammed into baseball/football stadiums (especially 450s). All the "format changes" (read "gimmickry") in the world can't fix that.

People get what they deserve. Long ago, the AMA (and its commercial partners) should have invested aggressively in the motocross series and expanded it to 18 or 20 events. That's what the FIM has done. Motocross is a great sport, but instead the AMA sold out to stadium racing ... karma just sucks.

Some of us stayed up all night Saturday watching MXGP (including MX2 and MXW). It was a mud-bowl debacle, but it was an absolute, unplanned, highly entertaining riot. I didn't so much as flip over to Supercross; the thought never even entered my mind.
Fourth_Floor
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3/6/2017 11:52am
If even the most "moto" of people, [i]people who come to a moto board to talk moto[/i], are falling asleep at the start of the 450...
If even the most "moto" of people, people who come to a moto board to talk moto, are falling asleep at the start of the 450 race it's clearly not the length of the show but the show itself.

Based on my previous experiences with sports broadcasting / marketing there are many smaller things we could do to retain / increase viewership but as someone who is constantly trying to get people to watch the races with me the biggest problem is the points. It's damn near impossible to make giving up your Saturday night sound exciting when you have to convince the person that knows nothing of the sport that, pending a crash or bike malfunction from the guy in first place, the guy in second place has to win the next 10 races to have a chance at seeing a new champion.

Do many people really care about the points though? I mean, I personally could care less where anyone is at in the points, I just want to see some good racing week to week. I think some of it has to do with the field that is out there. We keep hearing "Stacked Field" but it really isn't, as there is, realistically, 3 guys that can challenge each other for a win and if 2 of those guys rip a holeshot then it's game over pretty much. Maybe Dungey and Tomac should be forced to take a joker lane so everyone else can catch back up hahaa
TXDirt
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3/6/2017 12:11pm
If even the most "moto" of people, [i]people who come to a moto board to talk moto[/i], are falling asleep at the start of the 450...
If even the most "moto" of people, people who come to a moto board to talk moto, are falling asleep at the start of the 450 race it's clearly not the length of the show but the show itself.

Based on my previous experiences with sports broadcasting / marketing there are many smaller things we could do to retain / increase viewership but as someone who is constantly trying to get people to watch the races with me the biggest problem is the points. It's damn near impossible to make giving up your Saturday night sound exciting when you have to convince the person that knows nothing of the sport that, pending a crash or bike malfunction from the guy in first place, the guy in second place has to win the next 10 races to have a chance at seeing a new champion.

Do many people really care about the points though? I mean, I personally could care less where anyone is at in the points, I just want...
Do many people really care about the points though? I mean, I personally could care less where anyone is at in the points, I just want to see some good racing week to week. I think some of it has to do with the field that is out there. We keep hearing "Stacked Field" but it really isn't, as there is, realistically, 3 guys that can challenge each other for a win and if 2 of those guys rip a holeshot then it's game over pretty much. Maybe Dungey and Tomac should be forced to take a joker lane so everyone else can catch back up hahaa
Agree. It has nothing to do with points in my opinion. The casual fan, and even hard core fans want to see good on track racing week to week. That's not happening. The start has become too important. The bulk of the race is determined in the first 75 feet. I'll try and get my wife to watch with me and never once has she said it's not interesting because of the points. What's boring is guys just logging laps and there is no action going on on the track. Just guys logging laps. None of that changes by doing anything with the points. That doesn't at all change the on track racing.

The track designs are not working, the bikes to fast, the starts to important. It's created an event that might as well be scripted to be honest.
Titan1
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3/6/2017 12:15pm
I've loved this sport for as long as I can remember. I haven't watched the past three races...and fell asleep in the middle of the program four weeks ago.

Fourth_Floor
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3/6/2017 12:35pm Edited Date/Time 3/6/2017 12:36pm
I think they should all have to ride stock bikes that you or I could buy, to be honest, and only be able to add aftermarket parts and engine work that is available to the general public. Each team has a, say, $25,0000 cap they can put into the bike (inluding MSRP of bike). That would, in turn, slow them down and the track designs would have to change and that would put privateers and factory guys alike on a more level playing field and make the dream more obtainable to younger riders getting into the sport.

I find the brand commercials funny like Yamaha or Kawasaki showing their pro riders and saying you should ride their bike b/c Eli Tomac or Chad Reed rides them. Anyone with half a brain knows that about the only thing about the bike their pro riders ride and the bike their customers buy has in common is the color of their plastic. How is a privateer expected to compete with these $100,000 factory bikes and why, as a young rider, would you even want to pursue a sport with such a huge disadvantage?

Wouldn't it be more exciting to see which brand truly is superior on the track each year instead of watching these top guys jumping 10000 feet on the frankenstein hot rods that they're on?
akillerwombat
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3/6/2017 12:54pm
Do many people really care about the points though? I mean, I personally could care less where anyone is at in the points, I just want...
Do many people really care about the points though? I mean, I personally could care less where anyone is at in the points, I just want to see some good racing week to week. I think some of it has to do with the field that is out there. We keep hearing "Stacked Field" but it really isn't, as there is, realistically, 3 guys that can challenge each other for a win and if 2 of those guys rip a holeshot then it's game over pretty much. Maybe Dungey and Tomac should be forced to take a joker lane so everyone else can catch back up hahaa
I suppose that's where we disagree – I'm in it for the championship vs the week to week; might as well just make every race a one off like Monster Cup (fans would probably love it, haha).

That said – if you want to keep people watching (and excitement up) you have to have the season work towards a goal aka championship. I know people hate the idea of a stacked points with a few races left in the season because "the riders compete every week" but look at Street League. The same skateboarders compete every event against each other yet they still found a way to have the last event extremely important to the overall standings.
TXDirt
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3/6/2017 12:59pm
I think they should all have to ride stock bikes that you or I could buy, to be honest, and only be able to add aftermarket...
I think they should all have to ride stock bikes that you or I could buy, to be honest, and only be able to add aftermarket parts and engine work that is available to the general public. Each team has a, say, $25,0000 cap they can put into the bike (inluding MSRP of bike). That would, in turn, slow them down and the track designs would have to change and that would put privateers and factory guys alike on a more level playing field and make the dream more obtainable to younger riders getting into the sport.

I find the brand commercials funny like Yamaha or Kawasaki showing their pro riders and saying you should ride their bike b/c Eli Tomac or Chad Reed rides them. Anyone with half a brain knows that about the only thing about the bike their pro riders ride and the bike their customers buy has in common is the color of their plastic. How is a privateer expected to compete with these $100,000 factory bikes and why, as a young rider, would you even want to pursue a sport with such a huge disadvantage?

Wouldn't it be more exciting to see which brand truly is superior on the track each year instead of watching these top guys jumping 10000 feet on the frankenstein hot rods that they're on?
The rider makes the bike. Not the other way around. So no it does not sound exciting to see which brand is truly superior on the track each year. Fans go to watch the racing and the riders. Not the bikes. I get what you are saying about cost and etc though.
Starcrossed
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3/6/2017 1:03pm
I think a one hour pre-race show added to the broadcast would go a long way towards attracting the interest of some of the casual fans. It's a proven fact that once the viewing audience is able to identify with some of the riders, and the main story lines leading up to the race, it will increase overall interest in the event. The way it is now, we see the track map and then the first gate drop is five minutes into the broadcast. Fox needs another channel...FS3.lol
Motodave15
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3/6/2017 1:03pm
To be honest.. if sx wants to gain and retain fans

straight out drop the current setup... its aking to showing its age.

We need the mec format... the purist dont like the idea, but the idea works

we need each round to hold 3-250f mains 3-450 mains

daytime is practice/qualifier

you get to throw away one main, for the night..

it will be more exciting, more intense rivalries will develop and the fans can root for the top riders more than twice a night... because when you think about top qualifiers you only see them once in the heat then once in the main
3/6/2017 1:05pm
The problem with SX/MX (if you want to call it a problem), is that it is the major motorsport where individual ability has the largest effect on the outcomes. To me that is a bonus. The downside is that domination is inevitable as one rider is better than others. We saw it with McGrath, Carmichael, Villapoto, and others.

If you want SX to be more exciting, you have to change the tracks and bikes so that rider ability is no longer the limiting factor in how fast they get around the tracks.

Look at NASCAR or Moto3. In both cases there are 20+ drivers/riders who can get to the limit of their vehicles and lap consistently at the same speed. Lots of "excitement" that way. Lots of boring, boring "excitement".

Personally, I'm glad that SX and MX are not that way.
Plugga
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3/6/2017 1:07pm
disbanded wrote:
There is a point around 8 laps or so where you could fast forward to the last lap and nothing would have changed. I blame track...
There is a point around 8 laps or so where you could fast forward to the last lap and nothing would have changed. I blame track design...
That is exactly what I did this week. Sad

Im only watching now because I have money on Dungey to win the Championship.
tprice07
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3/6/2017 1:35pm
2 10 minute motos will help. Drop the heats and semis from the main show. Still stream it but cut the broadcast down to 2 10s for 250s and 2 10s for 450s and you have yourself a nice fun race where every minute counts.
TXDirt
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3/6/2017 1:38pm
Setup a pit row. After 10 laps must come into pits for two tires, gas and goggles. And maybe sprocket bolt torquing.

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