STEEL VS ALU Framed YZ250s

ginger969
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9/20/2015 6:32pm Edited Date/Time 11/20/2019 7:20am
Which do you prefer and why? Any advantages to the old Steel feel? Just kicking around the idea of another 2002 green sticker two stroke project here in CA Smile

If you have pics too feel free to share them! BrAPPPPPP
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motokiwi
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9/20/2015 6:47pm
The steel frame is one of the nicest, tight but a tiny bit flexible, most balanced bikes you will ever ride.

The alloy frame is a tank, has anyone ever seen one break? I cant recall one breaking.
slackinoff
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9/20/2015 7:15pm
While I have never ridden a aluminum yz250....my steel frame yz250 is sweet. I have been riding it off road during the weekdays for practice, and moto on the weekends when I can. It is much more versatile than any other bike I have owned. I think when a bike is good like that, it is comfy even when ridden outside (off road) its intended riding purpose.

I did own a 14 yz250f and loved the forks. So much that I picked up a set of the SSS and am getting closer to finishing the swap onto my 03 yz250. Currently waiting on a front axle.
Deetsmx
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9/20/2015 7:35pm
I had an 06 and then did an 03 project bike last year with updated suspension and brakes. The 03 was much better, but they do feel worn out after a while.
ginger969
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9/20/2015 8:37pm
Thanks guys thats great info! Any thoughts on the RM250 vs the YZ250 for 2002? I hear the RM's are a bit more agile in handling but the YZ has better power?

The Shop

9/21/2015 9:21am
Been running my 03 yz250 with 2012 yz450 suspension and triple clamps. Handles and turns on a dime
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DoctorJD
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9/21/2015 9:28am
Been running my 03 yz250 with 2012 yz450 suspension and triple clamps. Handles and turns on a dime
Interesting. I've been debating on whether I should get my stock (02') suspension re-valved, or just get some of the SSS stuff off ebay and retrofit it.

As to the OP's inquiry: I love my 02'. So much more plush than the aluminum perimeter-framed bikes I've ridden (Honda's).
FreshTopEnd
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9/21/2015 9:29am
Think DV is a big fan of the steel framed YZ's
9/21/2015 11:18am
Think DV is a big fan of the steel framed YZ's
Chad Reed liked it too I think.
Lightning78
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9/21/2015 11:37am
Been running my 03 yz250 with 2012 yz450 suspension and triple clamps. Handles and turns on a dime
I have a 03 YZ250 also and have been on the fence about buying the aluminium framed bike......this thread just sealed that decision as a nope! LOL Ridden the aluminum YZ250's and it was different I guess I just havent had enough time on them to really find out and now I dont thave to ...thanks guys!!! and yes that steel frame feels like magic with that little amount of more/different flex it has.

I was a diehard 06 RM250 guy and swore by that bike but no matter how hard I tried I couldn't get the forks to behave unless revalved and I made some DRASTIC oil height/volume changes those dam forks STILL were harsh and fought diving into any turn plus it was crazy nervous on high speed straights. Dont get me wrong its a brilliant bike but once I got my YZ I was blown away at just how perfect that bike is for me.

Stable yet it flat out sticks into corners like its on rails! Power is flawless, seamless and MEATY. Still has the stock suspension worked on by RG3 from previous owner I recently added my old TooTech sub tank system to it the whole subtank craze was made for the open bath KYB forks that came on the steel framed YZ's only one ride and man is that front end ultra plush now!! Still has the same bottoming resistance. I am going to do the SSS suspension swap sometime this season once I have the $$ to buy the forks its actually cheaper to buy the SSS suspension than do a revalve & springs on the stock stuff but overall for now the stock stuff I have is pretty good. I KNOW how much better the SSS stuff is after riding a few different friends bikes 06 or newer. Truly incredible stuff!!!

Question, are ANY of you that did the SSS conversion also running the SSS shock or was that not really that big of a deal to swap out like the forks??

And to those that ground down the steering stops, wouldn't the 04 clamps work w/o modifying the stops? Forks are the same diameter on the 04's as the SSS forks OR maybe I should look for a set of 05 YZF triple clamps? I just dont feel all that great about grinding material out of the steering stops for strength reasons I know im not gonna maul them but there is an element of strngth incorporated into the camps via the updated steering stop design on the clamps
slackinoff
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9/21/2015 11:49am
I have a 03 YZ250 also and have been on the fence about buying the aluminium framed bike......this thread just sealed that decision as a nope...
I have a 03 YZ250 also and have been on the fence about buying the aluminium framed bike......this thread just sealed that decision as a nope! LOL Ridden the aluminum YZ250's and it was different I guess I just havent had enough time on them to really find out and now I dont thave to ...thanks guys!!! and yes that steel frame feels like magic with that little amount of more/different flex it has.

I was a diehard 06 RM250 guy and swore by that bike but no matter how hard I tried I couldn't get the forks to behave unless revalved and I made some DRASTIC oil height/volume changes those dam forks STILL were harsh and fought diving into any turn plus it was crazy nervous on high speed straights. Dont get me wrong its a brilliant bike but once I got my YZ I was blown away at just how perfect that bike is for me.

Stable yet it flat out sticks into corners like its on rails! Power is flawless, seamless and MEATY. Still has the stock suspension worked on by RG3 from previous owner I recently added my old TooTech sub tank system to it the whole subtank craze was made for the open bath KYB forks that came on the steel framed YZ's only one ride and man is that front end ultra plush now!! Still has the same bottoming resistance. I am going to do the SSS suspension swap sometime this season once I have the $$ to buy the forks its actually cheaper to buy the SSS suspension than do a revalve & springs on the stock stuff but overall for now the stock stuff I have is pretty good. I KNOW how much better the SSS stuff is after riding a few different friends bikes 06 or newer. Truly incredible stuff!!!

Question, are ANY of you that did the SSS conversion also running the SSS shock or was that not really that big of a deal to swap out like the forks??

And to those that ground down the steering stops, wouldn't the 04 clamps work w/o modifying the stops? Forks are the same diameter on the 04's as the SSS forks OR maybe I should look for a set of 05 YZF triple clamps? I just dont feel all that great about grinding material out of the steering stops for strength reasons I know im not gonna maul them but there is an element of strngth incorporated into the camps via the updated steering stop design on the clamps
I think most people stick with the original shock. It is a 16mm shaft shock, which is well liked. Many folks did not like the 18mm shaft shock on the newer bikes. I think yamaha has gone back to 16mm though.

Yes the 04 clamps work.
You do not modify the steering stop with the 04 clamps, but you do have to modify the front axle spacers. You also have to use a front axle to match the SSS fork year.
cwtoyota
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9/21/2015 11:54am
I own both bikes. 2002 and 2010 model. Both handle extremely well.

The 2002 is a little better on a rough hardpack track, but I don't believe it's entirely the frame.

The swing arm design changed (For flex characteristics) around 2006, the forks on the old steel bike are 46mm vs the 48mm on the newer machines and the triple clamps on the old bikes had the forks mounted closer together (meaning that the triple clamps are about 2mm wider on the aluminum bikes).

I'm actually planning to race my old 2002 a bit this winter... I wouldn't hesitate to jump on that bike since it wouldn't feel any less competitive than my 2010.
1
9/21/2015 1:09pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2015 1:15pm
Been running my 03 yz250 with 2012 yz450 suspension and triple clamps. Handles and turns on a dime
I have a 03 YZ250 also and have been on the fence about buying the aluminium framed bike......this thread just sealed that decision as a nope...
I have a 03 YZ250 also and have been on the fence about buying the aluminium framed bike......this thread just sealed that decision as a nope! LOL Ridden the aluminum YZ250's and it was different I guess I just havent had enough time on them to really find out and now I dont thave to ...thanks guys!!! and yes that steel frame feels like magic with that little amount of more/different flex it has.

I was a diehard 06 RM250 guy and swore by that bike but no matter how hard I tried I couldn't get the forks to behave unless revalved and I made some DRASTIC oil height/volume changes those dam forks STILL were harsh and fought diving into any turn plus it was crazy nervous on high speed straights. Dont get me wrong its a brilliant bike but once I got my YZ I was blown away at just how perfect that bike is for me.

Stable yet it flat out sticks into corners like its on rails! Power is flawless, seamless and MEATY. Still has the stock suspension worked on by RG3 from previous owner I recently added my old TooTech sub tank system to it the whole subtank craze was made for the open bath KYB forks that came on the steel framed YZ's only one ride and man is that front end ultra plush now!! Still has the same bottoming resistance. I am going to do the SSS suspension swap sometime this season once I have the $$ to buy the forks its actually cheaper to buy the SSS suspension than do a revalve & springs on the stock stuff but overall for now the stock stuff I have is pretty good. I KNOW how much better the SSS stuff is after riding a few different friends bikes 06 or newer. Truly incredible stuff!!!

Question, are ANY of you that did the SSS conversion also running the SSS shock or was that not really that big of a deal to swap out like the forks??

And to those that ground down the steering stops, wouldn't the 04 clamps work w/o modifying the stops? Forks are the same diameter on the 04's as the SSS forks OR maybe I should look for a set of 05 YZF triple clamps? I just dont feel all that great about grinding material out of the steering stops for strength reasons I know im not gonna maul them but there is an element of strngth incorporated into the camps via the updated steering stop design on the clamps
I am running the larger shock body from the 18mm shock. However my suspension guy said the 16 mm shaft is better. I have the larger shock bosy mounted to the 16mm shaft. When i sent in my suspension the original shock body upper bearing mount was oval-shaped. So he had the other body laying around. Honestly i problably would never know the diffrence. Also i chose the newer triple clamps due to the extra bar mounts holes. Im not sure what the offset. I just know it turns really really well
Falcon
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9/21/2015 1:14pm
The '05 YZ250 was 7 pounds lighter than the '04 because of the aluminum frame. I don't care how rigid that thing is, the weight different was worth it to me.
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BobPA
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9/21/2015 1:21pm
Falcon wrote:
The '05 YZ250 was 7 pounds lighter than the '04 because of the aluminum frame. I don't care how rigid that thing is, the weight different...
The '05 YZ250 was 7 pounds lighter than the '04 because of the aluminum frame. I don't care how rigid that thing is, the weight different was worth it to me.
7lbs is not that big of a deal bro
9/21/2015 1:23pm
Falcon wrote:
The '05 YZ250 was 7 pounds lighter than the '04 because of the aluminum frame. I don't care how rigid that thing is, the weight different...
The '05 YZ250 was 7 pounds lighter than the '04 because of the aluminum frame. I don't care how rigid that thing is, the weight different was worth it to me.
Honestly being 6'4" 265 pounds . I would never benefit from the aluminum weight savings. The steel frame with suspension mods fit me well
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cwtoyota
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9/21/2015 1:24pm
Falcon wrote:
The '05 YZ250 was 7 pounds lighter than the '04 because of the aluminum frame. I don't care how rigid that thing is, the weight different...
The '05 YZ250 was 7 pounds lighter than the '04 because of the aluminum frame. I don't care how rigid that thing is, the weight different was worth it to me.
I agree with you for sure. The weight savings is a big advantage.

Also, the aluminum frame is more durable than old steel frames were. (unless you have a habit of cross-threading and stripping bolts).

I don't think most of us need to worry about the rigidity differences. In my case, I'm a "Johnny Average Amateur" and I don't think I put nearly the load on a chassis that a factory pro does. Most of the "steel is better" talk comes from the fact that Chad Reed, Timmy Ferry, David Vuillemin and others have said they liked the steel bikes better. I'm riding the 30+ class, I'm more worried about chassis setup, geometry, good valving and the lightest bike I can afford than I am worried about frame flex.

DoctorJD
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9/21/2015 1:35pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2015 1:36pm
Okay, question to the guys who've made the SSS conversion:

Which model bike(s) forks do I need to be looking for? Obviously 06' YZ-YZFs and higher, but am I looking for 250F or 450 forks?


(Sorry for the high jack OP)
9/21/2015 1:42pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2015 1:43pm
The cheapest would be 2006 or 07 125, 250, 250f or 450 forks. I got the 2012 forks. It requires triple clamps axle spacers and a new brake caliper. Which wasnt too bad. The new calipers feel better when braking. Also need a new brake hose
cwtoyota
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9/21/2015 1:45pm
DoctorJD wrote:
Okay, question to the guys who've made the SSS conversion: Which model bike(s) forks do I need to be looking for? Obviously 06' YZ-YZFs and higher...
Okay, question to the guys who've made the SSS conversion:

Which model bike(s) forks do I need to be looking for? Obviously 06' YZ-YZFs and higher, but am I looking for 250F or 450 forks?


(Sorry for the high jack OP)
I have a set of spare forks from a 2009 YZ450F. They are just about identical to the 2008 - 2014 YZ125 and YZ250 forks.

I think the forks on the two strokes changed in 2015 to match the later model YZ-F forks. Somewhere around 2012 - 2014, all of the YZ-F models got a smaller diameter upper fork tube where the top clamp holds it.

My 2010, 2011 two sroke forks and 2009 YZ450F forks are all identical. They all have a larger fork tube diameter at the upper clamp than the forks on my 2014 YZ450F.

There was a change in lower fork legs and the axle lugs (as well as the brake caliper) on these forks in 2007 / 2008.

-The four strokes got the smaller fork lugs and slightly shorter lower fork legs in 2007. The caliper mounting brackets changed to match the new smaller fork lugs and so did the caliper.

-The two strokes got the smaller fork lugs in 2008 to match the 2007 four strokes.

If you do the fork swap on an older bike, you'll have to get a brake caliper bracket if your SSS forks are from a 2007+ YZ-F or a 2008+ YZ. You can use just the caliper mount bracket to convert your caliper, or the entire front brake system.

Hopefully I explained that in a simple enough way that it makes sense.
1
9/21/2015 2:01pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2015 2:03pm
I got lucky when i did my conversion. Ebay wasy friend. Got everything pretty cheap. 2012 forks triple clamps and axle for 450 shipped. Caliper and hose for 50. Also had to buy a front number plate and forks guards. I modified the front fender to fit
Falcon
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9/21/2015 5:24pm
Falcon wrote:
The '05 YZ250 was 7 pounds lighter than the '04 because of the aluminum frame. I don't care how rigid that thing is, the weight different...
The '05 YZ250 was 7 pounds lighter than the '04 because of the aluminum frame. I don't care how rigid that thing is, the weight different was worth it to me.
BobPA wrote:
7lbs is not that big of a deal bro
Oh, I think it is. I feel like the aluminum bike is much more flickable than the '02 I had. Worlds apart. I can't tell the difference in vibration or rigidity though. Maybe I'm not sensitive enough or something... I'd be a pretty poor test rider.
9/21/2015 5:37pm
I've had all three bikes, steel & aluminum YZ and also the RM. the RM turns better but seems not to be able to exit the turns as explosive. The YZ in either frame is just a better machine IMO. I like the steel frame better too because of the flex and the 04 engine is as strong as any year. Also with Yamaha making a restyle plastic Kit back to 02 you can make them look like new ones for about $220.
RandyS
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9/21/2015 5:42pm
Falcon wrote:
The '05 YZ250 was 7 pounds lighter than the '04 because of the aluminum frame. I don't care how rigid that thing is, the weight different...
The '05 YZ250 was 7 pounds lighter than the '04 because of the aluminum frame. I don't care how rigid that thing is, the weight different was worth it to me.
5lbs. 4.5lb in the frame, 1/2lb in the swingarm.
9/21/2015 5:48pm
motokiwi wrote:
The steel frame is one of the nicest, tight but a tiny bit flexible, most balanced bikes you will ever ride. The alloy frame is a...
The steel frame is one of the nicest, tight but a tiny bit flexible, most balanced bikes you will ever ride.

The alloy frame is a tank, has anyone ever seen one break? I cant recall one breaking.
I seem to remember DV (I think it was him) breaking one quite severely a few yrs after his retirement - be interesting if the pics are still floating around. Haven't heard of it happening otherwise though, and I'm sure most riders couldn't put it through that sort of strain to begin with.

I thought my 06 and 04 were both very good bikes, but I did prefer the steel frame a little bit more.
cwtoyota
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9/21/2015 6:27pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2015 6:28pm
motokiwi wrote:
The steel frame is one of the nicest, tight but a tiny bit flexible, most balanced bikes you will ever ride. The alloy frame is a...
The steel frame is one of the nicest, tight but a tiny bit flexible, most balanced bikes you will ever ride.

The alloy frame is a tank, has anyone ever seen one break? I cant recall one breaking.
I seem to remember DV (I think it was him) breaking one quite severely a few yrs after his retirement - be interesting if the pics...
I seem to remember DV (I think it was him) breaking one quite severely a few yrs after his retirement - be interesting if the pics are still floating around. Haven't heard of it happening otherwise though, and I'm sure most riders couldn't put it through that sort of strain to begin with.

I thought my 06 and 04 were both very good bikes, but I did prefer the steel frame a little bit more.


I seem to remember that Yamaha had a welding issue with some of the early production aluminum frame YZ250F four stroke model.

The long weld down the sides of the down-tube from the bottom steering bearing race would crack and separate catastrophically.

I think they changed the welding process to fix the issue.
OR Racer46
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9/21/2015 6:46pm
Bro when you are a C class semi pro every ounce counts . I don't even know why we are having this conversation . Only thing I know is I have won way more races 10 years ago on my 01 yz 125. Than I have on my YZ 250 f cr 125 cr 250 crf 450 RMZ 250 Yz 450 f. And KTM 350 sxf
1
9/21/2015 6:58pm
My 2003 i just finished





in progress picture almost done



before pic locked up and was going to be parted out. gave 325.00





1
9/22/2015 6:45am
Quote from mr Chad Reed basically said he hated the new Aluminium frame, Japan told him the dimensions and flex etc would be identical but a bit lighter, when he rode it in the hills with some friends he actually thought the bike felt good and was ready to start testing some supercross and full suspension, but he immediately felt the difference when he was on the regular sx track and he was very disapointed and they tryed everything ( now for the average fun riding lad you wont feel any difference ) but at that pace he could tell it was a major setback he couldnt attack the whoops anymore or corners as he did in 04 when he won, he still hails that particular 04 bike to be the best bike he ever had and that girl was 100 % steel.

Personaly i think the new frame looks cooler but thats just eye preference.



DrSweden
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9/22/2015 7:05am
2002 frame differs from 2003 and 2004, it's heavier 1-2 lbs? and flex less. 2005 frame differs from 2006-2015, dunno weight but after getting some critique being rigid, the 2006 was worked on for more flex.

I'm almost ready with my project: 2003, totally restored. I have KYB SSS, stock and some Öhlins to choose from. I think the 2003 fork felt pretty plush riding around before bying the bike, will give them a try before converting to KYB SSS. Will use the Öhlins TTX rear though...

Vuillemin cracked his 2006+ frame on his YZ250, it broke along the weld under the tank, about two dm in length? After being re-weld, it hold up good I think...
DoctorJD
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9/22/2015 7:09am
DoctorJD wrote:
Okay, question to the guys who've made the SSS conversion: Which model bike(s) forks do I need to be looking for? Obviously 06' YZ-YZFs and higher...
Okay, question to the guys who've made the SSS conversion:

Which model bike(s) forks do I need to be looking for? Obviously 06' YZ-YZFs and higher, but am I looking for 250F or 450 forks?


(Sorry for the high jack OP)
cwtoyota wrote:
I have a set of spare forks from a 2009 YZ450F. They are just about identical to the 2008 - 2014 YZ125 and YZ250 forks. I...
I have a set of spare forks from a 2009 YZ450F. They are just about identical to the 2008 - 2014 YZ125 and YZ250 forks.

I think the forks on the two strokes changed in 2015 to match the later model YZ-F forks. Somewhere around 2012 - 2014, all of the YZ-F models got a smaller diameter upper fork tube where the top clamp holds it.

My 2010, 2011 two sroke forks and 2009 YZ450F forks are all identical. They all have a larger fork tube diameter at the upper clamp than the forks on my 2014 YZ450F.

There was a change in lower fork legs and the axle lugs (as well as the brake caliper) on these forks in 2007 / 2008.

-The four strokes got the smaller fork lugs and slightly shorter lower fork legs in 2007. The caliper mounting brackets changed to match the new smaller fork lugs and so did the caliper.

-The two strokes got the smaller fork lugs in 2008 to match the 2007 four strokes.

If you do the fork swap on an older bike, you'll have to get a brake caliper bracket if your SSS forks are from a 2007+ YZ-F or a 2008+ YZ. You can use just the caliper mount bracket to convert your caliper, or the entire front brake system.

Hopefully I explained that in a simple enough way that it makes sense.
Thanks for the info!

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