Roger on KTM's quiet bikes

The Rock
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5/22/2013 12:30pm Edited Date/Time 5/13/2017 12:06pm
Thanks GuyB for this nice piece on KTM's efforts to build quiet bikes that can win races.
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Top End
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5/22/2013 12:40pm
I only wish more manufactures and exhaust companies would follow suit.
1
5/22/2013 12:42pm Edited Date/Time 5/22/2013 12:44pm
interesting.

its good that KTM do this.

The 450's could produce 10dBA (half the loudness) less and still have plenty of power for 99% of riders.
WhKnuckle
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5/22/2013 12:45pm
One of the great things about EFI is it allows you to easily tune power for whatever exhaust you happen to be running. You can probably still get more power with a loud pipe than a quiet one, but you can make a bike with a quiet pipe run better than it used to.

The Shop

5/22/2013 12:48pm
Top End wrote:
I only wish more manufactures and exhaust companies would follow suit.
me too, especially when the exhaust manufactures put a noise reduction insert in that can be taken out. Everyone thinks its cool to have it removed.

Sitting behind a bike with an fmf(or similar) pipe and no insert, on the rev limiter actually makes me dizzy. Like that feeling when you stick your head in a speaker at a concert.
peelout
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5/22/2013 12:53pm
i get the movement for quiet bikes... i do.

but i took the spark arrested FMF Turbine Core off my bike and put on the louder Shorty and noticed a HUGE difference in power.

also i dig the throaty sound of my 300 two-stroke.

as for quieter 4-strokes, i'm all for it
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reded
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5/22/2013 1:36pm
peelout wrote:
i get the movement for quiet bikes... i do. but i took the spark arrested FMF Turbine Core off my bike and put on the louder...
i get the movement for quiet bikes... i do.

but i took the spark arrested FMF Turbine Core off my bike and put on the louder Shorty and noticed a HUGE difference in power.

also i dig the throaty sound of my 300 two-stroke.

as for quieter 4-strokes, i'm all for it
The only way to make that bike sound bad is to remove the entire silencer.
5/22/2013 2:08pm Edited Date/Time 5/22/2013 2:10pm
Sound is just an excuse enviros have as why they don't like motorcycles. and the AMA is bending over for it. there is a mini sprint track in the middle of town and races all night and nobody says shit. and you can hear them in miles of city neighborhoods
WhKnuckle
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5/22/2013 2:11pm
peelout wrote:
i get the movement for quiet bikes... i do. but i took the spark arrested FMF Turbine Core off my bike and put on the louder...
i get the movement for quiet bikes... i do.

but i took the spark arrested FMF Turbine Core off my bike and put on the louder Shorty and noticed a HUGE difference in power.

also i dig the throaty sound of my 300 two-stroke.

as for quieter 4-strokes, i'm all for it
reded wrote:
The only way to make that bike sound bad is to remove the entire silencer.
I don't know, those old Husky 400s with the coffee can size stingers used to sound pretty good. Begnt Aberg in sand whoops, bbwooaaaAAHooAAAHooAAHooAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH! And you could feel the exhaust pulses on your chest leaning over the fence. The only better thing in the world was riding yourself.
sean
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5/22/2013 2:36pm Edited Date/Time 5/22/2013 2:41pm
Loud pipes suck.......Or maybe it's blow...
dantheman
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5/22/2013 2:44pm Edited Date/Time 5/22/2013 2:51pm
Maybe this won't be popular but... I want pro racing to SOUND... like... racing!!! WTF do Nascar cars sound like! NOT like freakin' high mileage hybrids, that's for sure. There is NO pro motorized sport that is environmentally friendly... is there?! Let me know if there is Wink

Also, the most logical way to have reduced sound while keeping "enough" horspower, increase engine size and NOT allow modified exhuast! I know I know, the pipe manufacturers will be out of work. But this is a REAL solution rather than a tap dance around a solution so nobody gets "hurt"... financially.

At this point we need a horsepower "limit" coupled with exhuast DB's that nobody can complain about! What I mean by limit is you R&D motor size coupled with fixed satifactory DB until you reach the horsepower of current race machines, or current stock machines, but will have quieter bikes.

Example, you can quiet down a stock 450F and it will always have more power than a loud modded 250F! TRUE?

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't think so, but it won't be the first time Wink
The Rock
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5/22/2013 2:46pm Edited Date/Time 5/22/2013 3:49pm
peelout wrote:
i get the movement for quiet bikes... i do. but i took the spark arrested FMF Turbine Core off my bike and put on the louder...
i get the movement for quiet bikes... i do.

but i took the spark arrested FMF Turbine Core off my bike and put on the louder Shorty and noticed a HUGE difference in power.

also i dig the throaty sound of my 300 two-stroke.

as for quieter 4-strokes, i'm all for it
Thanks for being part of the movement.

Regarding the Shorty swap the key question is what does this difference in power actually provide? Depending on the conditions more power can translate into less tractability.

300cc two strokes rule!

Two stroke noise doesn't travel as far as that low frequency four stroke rumble does.

WhKnuckle I hear you on the EFI and sound thing. Starting in 2008 over the next two years I built a Stealth and a Stealth Pro project bikes that MXA tested but never got to unfortunately build a Stealth EFI machine. Chad Sanner worked his magic and the Stealth Pro came in a 91 db under the static 94 db test. Was it as fast as Tyler Rattray's 200K PC bike that was also 4 to 5 db louder? No but it was fast enough plus at 91 db it was extremely quiet.

For those of you that aren't part of the quiet movement: Right on and I respect your position. Currently the FIM is driving the bus on sound and doing a great job on it IMHO. AMA Racing follows what the FIM does for sound regulations and typically following them by one year so Europe gets to test drive new sound tests and sound limits before we do.

There are less places to ride and race in Europe now and sound has been at the forefront of these battles. Zoning, dust, and other factors generally come into play as well but for the one thing that is the easiest to do is having sound limits to give our detractors one less thing to use against us.
DrSweden
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5/22/2013 3:38pm
Nice!!! When it comes to buying a new pipe, one should support Acropovic for making something that benefits the sport and the power of our bikes.
5/22/2013 5:20pm
DrSweden wrote:
Nice!!! When it comes to buying a new pipe, one should support Acropovic for making something that benefits the sport and the power of our bikes.
I do for that reason. Euro companies have been researching and building quieter pipes for years so are the leaders in this area and Acropovic are some of the best. My ears are fucked now from so many years of loud motorbikes at the track and in the workshop. You don't miss it till it's gone!
The people who also cry about reducing noise levels will also be the biggest crybabies when their local track is gone because they feel they have the god given right to piss the rest of humanity off. I bet they smoke also. me me me me!
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IWreckALot
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5/22/2013 5:43pm
I just like how Roger seems to be thumbing his nose and the big 4 by doing everything the unorthodox way. Pushing the limit in every way with every part he puts on a bike.
The Rock
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5/23/2013 12:43pm Edited Date/Time 5/23/2013 6:40pm
Who would have ever thought the quietest bikes would be winning races/running near the front? Back when I was beating the sound drum four years ago I never thought this day would come. So much for needing to have a loud bike to win races.

To Dr Sweden's point Akrapovic for sure is doing a great job in building a quality pipe but there are a number of factors at play here. Can't say enough about the motor maestros at KTM for building the right motor package that mates to the Akrapovic exhaust.

It is extremely hard to put a package together that delivers the right kind of power with low decibels.
KlootZak
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5/23/2013 1:18pm
dantheman wrote:
Maybe this won't be popular but... I want pro racing to SOUND... like... racing!!! WTF do Nascar cars sound like! NOT like freakin' high mileage hybrids...
Maybe this won't be popular but... I want pro racing to SOUND... like... racing!!! WTF do Nascar cars sound like! NOT like freakin' high mileage hybrids, that's for sure. There is NO pro motorized sport that is environmentally friendly... is there?! Let me know if there is Wink

Also, the most logical way to have reduced sound while keeping "enough" horspower, increase engine size and NOT allow modified exhuast! I know I know, the pipe manufacturers will be out of work. But this is a REAL solution rather than a tap dance around a solution so nobody gets "hurt"... financially.

At this point we need a horsepower "limit" coupled with exhuast DB's that nobody can complain about! What I mean by limit is you R&D motor size coupled with fixed satifactory DB until you reach the horsepower of current race machines, or current stock machines, but will have quieter bikes.

Example, you can quiet down a stock 450F and it will always have more power than a loud modded 250F! TRUE?

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't think so, but it won't be the first time Wink
I agree. Racing should have no limits to the sound. I watched a MotoGP race live and the sound was just memorising and it boosted the experience. However, compared to Nascar, the technology used in racing is also used for normal race bikes. And that's not good imo. If I sit at the track, I'm always frustrated by the sound (that's why I keep earplugs with me). They should make factory exhausts (too loud) and exhaust for normal customer.
The Rock
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5/23/2013 5:46pm Edited Date/Time 5/23/2013 10:53pm
dantheman wrote:
Maybe this won't be popular but... I want pro racing to SOUND... like... racing!!! WTF do Nascar cars sound like! NOT like freakin' high mileage hybrids...
Maybe this won't be popular but... I want pro racing to SOUND... like... racing!!! WTF do Nascar cars sound like! NOT like freakin' high mileage hybrids, that's for sure. There is NO pro motorized sport that is environmentally friendly... is there?! Let me know if there is Wink

Also, the most logical way to have reduced sound while keeping "enough" horspower, increase engine size and NOT allow modified exhuast! I know I know, the pipe manufacturers will be out of work. But this is a REAL solution rather than a tap dance around a solution so nobody gets "hurt"... financially.

At this point we need a horsepower "limit" coupled with exhuast DB's that nobody can complain about! What I mean by limit is you R&D motor size coupled with fixed satifactory DB until you reach the horsepower of current race machines, or current stock machines, but will have quieter bikes.

Example, you can quiet down a stock 450F and it will always have more power than a loud modded 250F! TRUE?

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't think so, but it won't be the first time Wink
No engine company or race team wants a limit on horsepower. Your suggestion about increasing displacement while not allowing modified exhausts leaves me baffled no pun intended.

EDIT: The disciplines you reference (MotoGP and NASCAR) race at dedicated racing facilities all take place at a facility that is already accepted in the community. What is the situation where you live with MX tracks and riding areas and noise?
5/23/2013 9:49pm Edited Date/Time 5/23/2013 9:50pm
I've been on the starting line plenty of times, with some goon next to me revving his bike to the moon making my ears ring. Throws me off my game too, cause all I want to do is to knock that guy over during the race at some point. I always seem to forget to bring ear plugs to the line
The Rock
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5/23/2013 11:03pm
My routine was I would put my right ear plug in as I was pulling into the gate at Glen Helen. Nerve damage never gets better only worse.

Wonder how many people wear earplugs when riding now?
5/23/2013 11:35pm
The Rock wrote:
No engine company or race team wants a limit on horsepower. Your suggestion about increasing displacement while not allowing modified exhausts leaves me baffled no pun...
No engine company or race team wants a limit on horsepower. Your suggestion about increasing displacement while not allowing modified exhausts leaves me baffled no pun intended.

EDIT: The disciplines you reference (MotoGP and NASCAR) race at dedicated racing facilities all take place at a facility that is already accepted in the community. What is the situation where you live with MX tracks and riding areas and noise?
+1 on the MotoGP re MX tracks

We always run to 94db. So many tracks have closed due to noise.

I have run Yoshi and now FMF pipes the last 2 years both pass sound tests with correct insert and the bikes have run better on them than the OEM pipe.

I do think the Jap OEM have been lazy at improving the tech involed in making the bikes quiet but still running great. Their idea just seems to be make them longer and the core smaller.

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