Riding with Torn ACL. Surgery or not?

pontakoj
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pontakoj
Edited Date/Time 7/13/2015 10:24pm
Hello!

Last race around 4 weeks ago, i torn my ACL for the second time. This time it was only the ACL, the time before it was both ACL and meniscus. The MRI showed a 100% tear. Whore a Asterisk Brace maybe it prevented further damage...

I'm about to take the decision with my doc in a few weeks, doing a lot of rehab right now with a physiotherapist, to do another ACL surgery in the knee, or try to rehab and build stability without it.

My question is, has anyone of you had a 100% ACL tear and been able to ride without a reconstruction? Is it even possible to gain that stability that is necessarily to ride without op?

Wonder if i should push for surgery right away or not?



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ryandiezic757 7/12/2015 3:06pm
7/12/2015 3:06pm
Get surgery right away, it's the inevitable so you might as well get it over with, my dad messed up his knee and never got it fixed and it's bothering him still... 30 years later. Unless you're going to lorettas or have a huge race, just go get it over with.
ando
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ando 7/12/2015 3:16pm
7/12/2015 3:16pm
There's a pretty good chance that if you never have it fixed, you will eventually destroy the cartilage and end up with a knee replacement.
brimx153
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brimx153 7/12/2015 3:49pm
7/12/2015 3:49pm
Both my knees have a 100% tear in the ACL , i have cartilage probs with them two .i had two acl replacments .but the last two , i just did loads of physio , and can ride my bike , jog etc with no real probs .especially on the bike, not noticeble at all . it took a long long time to build up my legs to be good enough . like 8 months . depends on how much damage you did etc . if you can get your op right now . but if you have to wait 6 months before you can get an op ,you leg might be nearly good enough not to get the op
douglasredding 7/12/2015 4:57pm
7/12/2015 4:57pm
I had a 100% tear, knew about it and still rode weekly, sometimes 2x a week for at least a year. I could only ride with Asterisk knee braces, or it would pop-out pretty bad while riding. It progressively got more loose, and it was the day I was walking next to my boss, on a perfectly flat, carpeted floor when it popped-out and locked-up, embarrassed the shit ouf of me. So, i decided then to get it fixed. When I finally did get surgery I got to feel like a complete a-hole as the doctor showed me (and my wife) how my meniscus was completely torn to shreds because I was riding on it for so long. He also let me know that without having a good meniscus i'm pretty much guaranteed arthritis in that knee later in life.

My knee felt about 85% better after surgery and recovery. It's 5+ years since and I still refer to that knee as my "bad" knee...it's never really the same, but it's definitely good enough.

good luck

DR484

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Preston412
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Preston412 7/12/2015 6:21pm
7/12/2015 6:21pm
pontakoj wrote:
Hello! Last race around 4 weeks ago, i torn my ACL for the second time. This time it was only the ACL, the time before it...
Hello!

Last race around 4 weeks ago, i torn my ACL for the second time. This time it was only the ACL, the time before it was both ACL and meniscus. The MRI showed a 100% tear. Whore a Asterisk Brace maybe it prevented further damage...

I'm about to take the decision with my doc in a few weeks, doing a lot of rehab right now with a physiotherapist, to do another ACL surgery in the knee, or try to rehab and build stability without it.

My question is, has anyone of you had a 100% ACL tear and been able to ride without a reconstruction? Is it even possible to gain that stability that is necessarily to ride without op?

Wonder if i should push for surgery right away or not?



Yes, you can rise without reconstruction but you will never have the stability needed and it will put a lot of stress on other muscles, ligaments and tendons.
I didn't on my first tear and it was the biggest mistake I made and didn't take therapy seriously after orthoscope.

So my advice is, get the reconstruction done and adhere to doctor's timeline and take therapy serious. It has been twenty years and it is stronger than my other knee. You may lose about 10 degrees in full range of motion but that is not noticeable.
Brad460
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Brad460 7/12/2015 6:51pm
7/12/2015 6:51pm
Get it fixed ASAP.. In the past I made the choice to put off surgery and continue riding and racing...it was good until one day I put my foot down wrong and did even more damage because the ACL was torn..the torn ligament got stuck between the bones and my knee was locked up.
Jack mehoff
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Jack mehoff 7/12/2015 8:15pm
7/12/2015 8:15pm
I raced and rode 3 times a week with out getting mine done for 5 years , everyone is right you will end up tearing something else up , mine was the patellar, dropped my foot in a rut and twisted with the knee brace on. ,if you want to finish out the season get a custom one doc prescribed, mine was a othotec, my physician was the NY giants Ortho at time and said the CTI would not work right with my tear
inthebadboycorner 7/12/2015 8:31pm
7/12/2015 8:31pm
Yes I raced 10 years on one and 15 years on the other without acl repairs.
Now they are both that badly worn nothing can be done.
Get the surgery ASAP.
brimx153
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brimx153 7/12/2015 8:47pm
7/12/2015 8:47pm
pontakoj wrote:
Hello! Last race around 4 weeks ago, i torn my ACL for the second time. This time it was only the ACL, the time before it...
Hello!

Last race around 4 weeks ago, i torn my ACL for the second time. This time it was only the ACL, the time before it was both ACL and meniscus. The MRI showed a 100% tear. Whore a Asterisk Brace maybe it prevented further damage...

I'm about to take the decision with my doc in a few weeks, doing a lot of rehab right now with a physiotherapist, to do another ACL surgery in the knee, or try to rehab and build stability without it.

My question is, has anyone of you had a 100% ACL tear and been able to ride without a reconstruction? Is it even possible to gain that stability that is necessarily to ride without op?

Wonder if i should push for surgery right away or not?



if its the same acl again as the one you did before , then its more wort a look at getting the knee stable throught physio . if its the first time i agree whit everyone get it fixed asap. i have played rugby for years whit no acls . i was told that if the went to repire them again because i did such a bad job the first time ,acl ,mcl,pcl,meniscus,knee cap, bone chip. that it would be a better option not to get another acl repire again ,every acl repire ,shortens the life of your knee. for the question you asked it is 100% possible to gain at least 95% stability in your knee without an opp . but it takes a lot of physio ,and dam hard work .the biggest mistake is coming back too soon when ur knees not stable . your looking at months of physio ,not wks .
Hudd_421
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Hudd_421 7/12/2015 9:01pm
7/12/2015 9:01pm
After riding with my knee popping out and killing every time i dapped, I buckled down and got an MRI.

Few short weeks later I'm 5 days out of surgery.

Im already walking around, but a little sore. Procedure was quick and easy (weird why it requires 6 months of PT and recovery!)

I was on crutches for 3 months in December and almost killed my self from not riding...here we go...
JJO741
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JJO741 7/12/2015 9:08pm
7/12/2015 9:08pm
Had my done a few years ago. Rehab it and get surgery done asap. If it weren't for the scars, I wouldn't be able to tell if I had surgery or not, that's how good my knee is now.
NV825
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NV825 7/12/2015 9:40pm
7/12/2015 9:40pm
After I tore my ACL I continued to race because I didn't want to miss a big race coming up. It would be good for a majority of the time but my leg would "shift" because it didn't have the stability and it would hurt like a motherf'er. Decided it wasn't worth trying to ride through pain so I had it put back together and it has been perfect ever since.

Another positive was insurance covered custom fit CTi knee braces for both knees.
Moto75
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Moto75 7/12/2015 10:54pm
7/12/2015 10:54pm
If you want to walk later in life without a knee replacement.... surgery & rehab. They can fix ligaments, not meniscus. Take the quick way out & you'll be paying later.
pontakoj
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pontakoj 7/13/2015 4:30am
7/13/2015 4:30am
Thank you guys! It's the same knee as the first time. I'll talk to the doc and promote for surgery asap!

Did some of you ride before you had the surgery or is that a big gamble to?


FlickitFlat
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FlickitFlat 7/13/2015 5:03am
7/13/2015 5:03am
Have you ever had your knee pop out inside of a brace while launching off of an 80 foot jump knowing your going to have to land on one leg while clinching in pain because your leg won't pop in because the brace that holds it in place is also the brace keeping it from popping back in? Have you ever rolled around on the side of the track stripping your pants off so you can take your brace off with a large crowd of observers? Try doing that in the water with a life vest while water skiing. Try doing that with a flipper and no life vest while body surfing at the beach. Just a few examples of some of the worst predicaments that I've been in because of having a knee that pops out. There are several other casual situations that were just as bad and painful. One of the worst side effects is having to deal with the constant back pain and back problems that arise from favoring a leg.
ACL surgery is nowhere near as intrusive as it used to be. Recovery time is over half what it used to be. If you are holding out for LL then train for it, go for it and enjoy your week. If not, cut your summer short and get it fixed and use all winter for recovery. I've learned the hard way, if you have the means and the opportunity to get an injury fixed and don't then you are being a fool. Life is ever changing and you might not always have that opportunity or the time to do it.
mark911
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mark911 7/13/2015 5:53am
7/13/2015 5:53am
Maybe I'm an anomaly, but I've totally ruptured ACLs in both knees and never got them repaired. Both occurred after I was forty, about 8 years apart. I walked around for about a month with my CTI brace until it felt strong enough to go without and never looked back. Doc says stability is not great but not bad either. I ride/race no problem. I'm only a couple pounds above my high school weight (around 150 lbs) at 58 years old so I think keeping my body weight down has helped tremendously. They were 100% ruptured and I had surgery scheduled for both but backed out. I'm told the ACL cannot reattach and heal and I haven't had an MRI since but something fixed itself.
Madmax31
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Madmax31 7/13/2015 5:57am
7/13/2015 5:57am
I guess I'm a rare exception. I blew both of mine out back in the late late 80's/early 90's. Had them popping out for about a year, but rehabbed the hell out of them on a bicycle and quit racing for about 3 years. I'll be 50 this year and besides the occasional pain here and there I can say they seem to be as good as my friends who have had surgery.

Not sure if I've just been lucky. However surgery wasn't as good back then as it is today. I'm sure as soon as I send this fate will set in and I'll get horrible arthritis.
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cjmx 7/13/2015 6:32am
7/13/2015 6:32am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2015 9:53am
Your age and lifestyle should be a factor in this decision. If you're young, definitely get it done. Also, do you run or do other sports? if so, more reason to get it done. If not, with the right knee brace and correct rehab, non replacement becomes an option.

There shouldn't be a big rush for surgery. Make sure the swelling is completely gone before surgery. Also, rehab before to build up the muscle. Getting rid of the swelling before surgery is a lot easier than after.

I use DonJoy custom knee braces. I'm 6'2" and they fit a lot better than the CTI's for me. Whatever you get, have a professional measure your knee for the correct fit.

good luck

Pit Row

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Madmax31
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Madmax31 7/13/2015 6:52am
7/13/2015 6:52am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2015 6:53am
I should've mentioned I never ride without knee braces now. I was using CTI's for years until I wore them out. Reluctantly bought Pod's because of the MXA reviews. Thought they wouldn't be solid enough but glad I listened to MXA. Absolutely love them. Almost like not wearing anything compared to the CTI's.
CamP
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CamP 7/13/2015 7:49am
7/13/2015 7:49am
I rode for 15 years without an ACL in my left knee. My knee was fairly stable, but it caused permanent damage/wear to the articular cartilage which means a knee replacement will be in my future. Anyone that rides with a 100% torn ACL is really playing with fire.
JaredPartridge 7/13/2015 8:30am
7/13/2015 8:30am
It was the worst thing I ever did, both times. Kyle would probably tell you the same now that he's had at least 6 on one knee, and one on the other. I tore my left one in 2008 at an offroad race, and my right one was already torn from the year before at a LL qualifier, after having that one fixed once already. I finished the year and planned on getting both fixed and only did the right one again. Raced the next 5 years with my left one completely blown out and did more damage to my knee then I would've liked. When I finally went in for surgery, they took out about 30% of my meniscus, a few bone spurs under my kneecap and other places, and cut into my hammy for an ACL ligament. The most pain you'll feel later in life for not getting it fixed will be the meniscus. Shits the suspension of your knee. Without it you'll be straight bone on bone after awhile.
The top of that picture is before they put the piece of hamstring in there, while the bottom one is after. Mine was completely gone, with nothing but nubs left at each end of bone.
Brad460
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Brad460 7/13/2015 8:44am
7/13/2015 8:44am
pontakoj wrote:
Thank you guys! It's the same knee as the first time. I'll talk to the doc and promote for surgery asap! Did some of you ride...
Thank you guys! It's the same knee as the first time. I'll talk to the doc and promote for surgery asap!

Did some of you ride before you had the surgery or is that a big gamble to?


One suggestion- I would start working out your legs as much as possible leading up to surgery..lift whatever weights you can..lunges, squats, leg press..whatever..build up as much muscle as possible! This will aid in your recovery.
pontakoj
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pontakoj 7/13/2015 2:57pm
7/13/2015 2:57pm
Yes i'm working out with a PT 2-3 a week. Think i will try to get the surgery asap. The swelling right now like the "good" knee. But did you guys ride something before surgery?
FoxPlatinum_12 7/13/2015 3:50pm
7/13/2015 3:50pm
I had a 100% ACL tear as well, seems all too common unfortunately. I would say don't ride before having the op simply so you don't do further damage to the knee - as some others here have experienced. I didn't touch my bike when it was torn as it was giving way just walking around. Without the ACL the knee is simply less stable, pretty much no matter how much work you do to build up your muscles, therefore putting you at greater risk of doing more damage. I know there are those who never get their knees reconstructed and ride but if you can get it sorted and put up with the hassle of going through the recovery again, I'd say save yourself more problems and get it done, then ride.
1stSSPZ
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1stSSPZ 7/13/2015 4:32pm
7/13/2015 4:32pm
Well, I guess I am the Lone Ranger here...did a complete rupture on my left ACL in 89. No repair. Still riding and racing, thanks to CTI knee braces. Is it perfect? No. After 25 years of humping a rucksack in the Infantry and 40 years of mx, both knees are toast. Would not have it any other way!
brimx153
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brimx153 7/13/2015 4:33pm
7/13/2015 4:33pm
pontakoj wrote:
Yes i'm working out with a PT 2-3 a week. Think i will try to get the surgery asap. The swelling right now like the "good"...
Yes i'm working out with a PT 2-3 a week. Think i will try to get the surgery asap. The swelling right now like the "good" knee. But did you guys ride something before surgery?
i would nt ride unless my knee was stable . people are saying that if you dont get ur acl done ,you ll end up getting a knee replacement later in life .sorry to tell you , if this is the second time you have done the same acl ,you ll prob need a knee replacement anyway . i tottally disagree that you cant get your knee stable enough , to run , jump ,play sport , and def can ride a bike without a acl . MC has all his pro carer . it really come down to how bad your knee is now , if it is bad i bet your doctor will try push you not to get an op . loads of people are able to continue playing sports like soccer even with out an acl . which is way harder on you knee than MX , you really need to ask your doc , there are pros and con s to getting it done when its your second time . but people saying you cant get it stable is wrong . they just did nt put in the time doing the pyshio .
brimx153
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brimx153 7/13/2015 4:35pm
7/13/2015 4:35pm
1stSSPZ wrote:
Well, I guess I am the Lone Ranger here...did a complete rupture on my left ACL in 89. No repair. Still riding and racing, thanks to...
Well, I guess I am the Lone Ranger here...did a complete rupture on my left ACL in 89. No repair. Still riding and racing, thanks to CTI knee braces. Is it perfect? No. After 25 years of humping a rucksack in the Infantry and 40 years of mx, both knees are toast. Would not have it any other way!
i think what people are not understanding is even if you got your acl s fixed, ur knee s would be more than lightly toast now anyway
FoxPlatinum_12 7/13/2015 5:18pm
7/13/2015 5:18pm Edited Date/Time 7/14/2015 2:34am
pontakoj wrote:
Yes i'm working out with a PT 2-3 a week. Think i will try to get the surgery asap. The swelling right now like the "good"...
Yes i'm working out with a PT 2-3 a week. Think i will try to get the surgery asap. The swelling right now like the "good" knee. But did you guys ride something before surgery?
brimx153 wrote:
i would nt ride unless my knee was stable . people are saying that if you dont get ur acl done ,you ll end up getting...
i would nt ride unless my knee was stable . people are saying that if you dont get ur acl done ,you ll end up getting a knee replacement later in life .sorry to tell you , if this is the second time you have done the same acl ,you ll prob need a knee replacement anyway . i tottally disagree that you cant get your knee stable enough , to run , jump ,play sport , and def can ride a bike without a acl . MC has all his pro carer . it really come down to how bad your knee is now , if it is bad i bet your doctor will try push you not to get an op . loads of people are able to continue playing sports like soccer even with out an acl . which is way harder on you knee than MX , you really need to ask your doc , there are pros and con s to getting it done when its your second time . but people saying you cant get it stable is wrong . they just did nt put in the time doing the pyshio .
I agree, some people can get it stable - I was able to run and definitely cycle without the ACL and my main physiotherapist himself didn't have an ACL yet still played rugby regularly (he also tore his MCL, PCL, meniscus and patella tendon completely in half in the same accident so couldn't be bothered to get the ACL done after all those reconstructions). Everyones physiology is different, if you can get it to a point where you're confident enough in its strength then you could go without another op. However, I'd still say get it fixed as you have an ACL for a reason.
Johnny89superbike 7/13/2015 7:40pm
7/13/2015 7:40pm
Many riders above with similar injuries; some good advice too. I've had about 25 knee operations in my 40 year race history. I now have full artificial left knee (TKR) and a partial replacement (PKR) of my right knee.

Have the ligament repair done, train hard in the gym to make the muscles tight around your knee, do NOT run ever again and finally; change your riding style to put less stress on your knees.

I dare not try to ride without my knee braces on, don't want to ever feel that intense pain again. Now I look for 'high traction' area's of the track while riding, just so I don't have to save any 'out of control' moments with my legs.
ando
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ando 7/13/2015 10:06pm
7/13/2015 10:06pm
While a few people will be able to strengthen and stabilise the joint sufficiently, which is a good thing to do anyway, the majority won't. And there isn't any real way of telling which camp you are in until it's too late. Every single time you do something that would normally require the ACL, you will almost certainly be damaging the meniscus/cartilage, from which there is no recovery.

I had my left ACL done ten years ago, when I was 32. Did the full physio recovery/rehab, and didn't touch the bike for six months. Since then I've ridden a lot, played touch rugby, squash, and I'm now training to do triathlons. Although I can feel the difference between my two knees at full flexion, my repaired knee hasn't given me one ounce of trouble.

You only have to take the samples in this thread to give you an idea what the likely outcome will be.

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