Riding a Fast Bike slow, or a Slow Bike fast, which is more effective?

Johnny Depp
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For me it's always been the bigger with more torque pulling tall gears the better to smooth things out proves to be faster.

I know some rider's who prefer and excel by banging off the rev limiter and screaming a bikes guts out.

Fun factor is another debate all together.

The fastest I ever "felt" was on a borrowed Husky 390 automatic. It took away all the "mistakes".



How about you?

What about the Pro's? It seems there are lots of stories of tamed down motors, added flywheel, hidden auto clutches etc. The magazines would have you believe that you've got to have a "hit" to get the job done. Add a tooth to the rear kind of stuff.
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philG
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11/2/2016 12:50pm
Easier to ride a slow bike fast ..
Markee
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11/2/2016 12:54pm
Apparently it's fast bike slow. And that bike is a 450. It's a growing trend that most 450 guys at the track are fat and technicaly retarded.

Like trying to pass a log truck that can straight line get away and shoot a massive amount of roost deterrent.
Zaugg
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11/2/2016 1:13pm
Not sure what you mean by effective?

If by effective you mean becoming a better rider, you'll learn more riding a slow bike fast because to keep up, you'll need good technique.

If by effective you mean it's easier, than a fast bike slow will make everything easier but not necessarily faster because you can cheat technique.

If by effective you mean fun...well that's all relative.
mx317
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11/2/2016 1:20pm
Markee wrote:
Apparently it's fast bike slow. And that bike is a 450. It's a growing trend that most 450 guys at the track are fat and technicaly...
Apparently it's fast bike slow. And that bike is a 450. It's a growing trend that most 450 guys at the track are fat and technicaly retarded.

Like trying to pass a log truck that can straight line get away and shoot a massive amount of roost deterrent.
You must have been smoked by a fat guy on a 450 with his elbows down.

The Shop

Katoomey
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11/2/2016 1:29pm
Well, Scott Summers comes to mind. He rode an XR600R against an entire field of much lighter, much faster 2-strokes. Granted, he was a beast and probably too big for a 250 2-stroke anyway, but he made that tractor-like XR work to great effect for him.
RCB33
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11/2/2016 1:30pm
I've been contemplating this as well and after going from a YZ125 to an XR 100, I can assure you I'm faster in the woods (or at least feel like it),as well as having more fun,and lower maintenance costs and my conclusion is that bigger isn't always better.
Markee
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11/2/2016 1:37pm
Markee wrote:
Apparently it's fast bike slow. And that bike is a 450. It's a growing trend that most 450 guys at the track are fat and technicaly...
Apparently it's fast bike slow. And that bike is a 450. It's a growing trend that most 450 guys at the track are fat and technicaly retarded.

Like trying to pass a log truck that can straight line get away and shoot a massive amount of roost deterrent.
mx317 wrote:
You must have been smoked by a fat guy on a 450 with his elbows down.
Na. But you fat and on a 450?
Rowlands
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11/2/2016 1:59pm
Riding a fast bike fast is fastest.

I find it intriguing how little the pros actually Rev there 450's I can't work out if there bikes are seriously powerful or they just ride them so smooth and carry there speed. Watching Clement Desalle around hawkstone park just seemed like he was in 3rd and 4th gears and hardly revving the bike through the turns just linking each corner and carrying his speed. I find my lap times are the very similar if I "push" or just put in a solid smooth lap. So I guess it just depends
Johnny Depp
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11/2/2016 2:05pm
Katoomey wrote:
Well, Scott Summers comes to mind. He rode an XR600R against an entire field of much lighter, much faster 2-strokes. Granted, he was a beast and...
Well, Scott Summers comes to mind. He rode an XR600R against an entire field of much lighter, much faster 2-strokes. Granted, he was a beast and probably too big for a 250 2-stroke anyway, but he made that tractor-like XR work to great effect for him.
Great example. Everyone assumed with him strong enough to lift his bike that it was all Scott making it happen on a bike that was a handicap. Perhaps the bike was his "secret" weapon?

11/2/2016 2:22pm
Markee wrote:
Apparently it's fast bike slow. And that bike is a 450. It's a growing trend that most 450 guys at the track are fat and technicaly...
Apparently it's fast bike slow. And that bike is a 450. It's a growing trend that most 450 guys at the track are fat and technicaly retarded.

Like trying to pass a log truck that can straight line get away and shoot a massive amount of roost deterrent.
Seriously!
11/2/2016 2:28pm
Markee wrote:
Apparently it's fast bike slow. And that bike is a 450. It's a growing trend that most 450 guys at the track are fat and technicaly...
Apparently it's fast bike slow. And that bike is a 450. It's a growing trend that most 450 guys at the track are fat and technicaly retarded.

Like trying to pass a log truck that can straight line get away and shoot a massive amount of roost deterrent.
mx317 wrote:
You must have been smoked by a fat guy on a 450 with his elbows down.
Funny this came up. I was battling a pretty hefty dude on a 450 a couple weeks ago. He would out drag my 150, then take the best line in the corner. I'd hang it wide and let it scream, start to get a nose on him, and there he'd go past me again. This would go on the first couple laps, and id finally make some ground. Every straight though, I'd hear him coming. I still came away with a 1-1 finish but God damn that horsepower handicap can be a bitch to overcome.
Bearuno
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11/2/2016 2:34pm Edited Date/Time 11/2/2016 8:16pm
Riding Slow, is Slow.

Riding Fast, is Fast.

One can do either. But, just because you are screaming a slow bike, does not mean you're going fast, and neither when torquing / riding smoothly around a track on a 'fast' bike, means you're going slow.

I've done / do both, and all methods in between. But, whatever technique used, I have never been that fast. I've enjoying wringing the tits off of 125s/small 4ts, and now mostly, just grunting around on my 500 2T.

I'd love to ride something like a Zabel engined two wheeler, or a bike using the ( now moribund?) MB1 - a 1000cc single cylinder 4t Sidecarcross engine.
Johnny Depp
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11/2/2016 2:52pm
Bearuno wrote:
Riding Slow, is Slow. Riding Fast, is Fast. One can do either. But, just because you are screaming a slow bike, does not mean you're going...
Riding Slow, is Slow.

Riding Fast, is Fast.

One can do either. But, just because you are screaming a slow bike, does not mean you're going fast, and neither when torquing / riding smoothly around a track on a 'fast' bike, means you're going slow.

I've done / do both, and all methods in between. But, whatever technique used, I have never been that fast. I've enjoying wringing the tits off of 125s/small 4ts, and now mostly, just grunting around on my 500 2T.

I'd love to ride something like a Zabel engined two wheeler, or a bike using the ( now moribund?) MB1 - a 1000cc single cylinder 4t Sidecarcross engine.
I had to look it up, so I thought I'd share. 700cc used for sidecars, designed by a former Maico engineer.



Fast bike that needs to be ridden slow category.
Stuntman949
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11/2/2016 3:14pm
Markee wrote:
Apparently it's fast bike slow. And that bike is a 450. It's a growing trend that most 450 guys at the track are fat and technicaly...
Apparently it's fast bike slow. And that bike is a 450. It's a growing trend that most 450 guys at the track are fat and technicaly retarded.

Like trying to pass a log truck that can straight line get away and shoot a massive amount of roost deterrent.
Bahaha wow right off the bat! At one time I had a 450 and a 125. Jumped on the 125 for a moto, quickly realized I had 0 talent.
Rooster
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11/2/2016 3:41pm
I know it's a heck of a lot more fun to ride a slow bike fast than riding a fast bike slow.

My last 125 was waaaay more fun than the 250 that followed it and the 450 after that. Although that 450 got to be a lot more fun once I put it on the pavement instead of dirt. Of course it's pretty slow for a paved track, so there's that answer to your question again.

As far as being effective. You'll go faster riding a fast bike slow in most cases. But it'll also buck you off and beat you into submission the first time you give it a little too much. If you're slow enough to be asking this question, then ride whatever's the most fun and don't worry about it.
brash
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11/2/2016 3:55pm
I feel way faster on my 125, but lap times are 2-3 sec quicker on 450.

The fact the 125 is double the fun means I ride it way more, brand spanking new YZ450 and I choose to ride a 7 year old 125 lol.
11/2/2016 5:02pm
The 13-16 Honda 450's are the slowest stock bikes out there (horsepower wise)...but the last three years of racing theyseem to be the most winningest bikes on our local tracks..with 450cc's, a slower bike seems to put in the fastest laps.
CASH476
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11/2/2016 5:14pm
Markee wrote:
Apparently it's fast bike slow. And that bike is a 450. It's a growing trend that most 450 guys at the track are fat and technicaly...
Apparently it's fast bike slow. And that bike is a 450. It's a growing trend that most 450 guys at the track are fat and technicaly retarded.

Like trying to pass a log truck that can straight line get away and shoot a massive amount of roost deterrent.
mx317 wrote:
You must have been smoked by a fat guy on a 450 with his elbows down.
Markee wrote:
Na. But you fat and on a 450?
Haha, most people wouldn'd admit that they can't out brake & out corner a fat, technically retarded 450 rider on their much lighter 250 smoker. Good for you Wink
Crush
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11/2/2016 5:20pm
Proves to be faster? Well, if you can, it's obvious.

But even being a big somewhat overweight bastard, there is definitely some fun in making a little bike scream!
11/2/2016 5:27pm
If you can ride a slow bike fast then you can ride a fast bike faster then someone who can ride a fast bike slow.
11/2/2016 5:47pm
For motocross, the extra HP is an advantage no doubt. I always feel at a disadvantage when I ride motocross on my 125, even though I'm having a blast. If I make a mistake in a corner on the 125, I really have to consider (at my speed) weather I can still go for the jump, where as if I'm on my 250, I just twist it a little more.

This season I decided I would race a 250 2t in the harescramble races and I'm struggling to be as competitive on the bigger bike in the technical stuff for 2 straight hours. Even with a flywheel weight, the added HP (and weight of the bike) combined with my riding style, doesn't equal faster riding in the woods, for me.
Bearuno
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11/2/2016 6:57pm Edited Date/Time 11/2/2016 11:59pm
I had to look it up, so I thought I'd share. 700cc used for sidecars, designed by a former Maico engineer. [img]http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/13355520_519555751566532_877020435_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTI2NDY4MTEwOTQ1MTg1ODU2NQ%3D%3D.2[/img] Fast bike that needs...
I had to look it up, so I thought I'd share. 700cc used for sidecars, designed by a former Maico engineer.



Fast bike that needs to be ridden slow category.
I've been trying to find my saved (on 'puter) copy of an Italian magazine's test of a Zabel Engine in a CRF chassis - a "ZAF" I guess. Can't find it, but I think it was originally put up on this site by a fellow reprobate. One of the lead pictures had what I assume was a photo shopped pic of the rider with 'stretcho man' type arms, standing behind the bike. Though, it's all really about throttle control and precision with the bigger engines. In an era of high revving 4ts (hell, even 450's rev to the moon) few seem to understand bikes that you don't need much in the way of revs. Just look at a 250 2t dyno chart for , generally, max power delivered around 8500 rpm, then see how say, MXA, now list those sort of revs as being low / mid range power in 250 4Ts. It's weird world we ride in now.

Anyway, here's some pics of the JBS MB1 I'm refering to:




It's a 'Big' Engine - height is 548mm / 21,6", length is 398mm / 15.67". Woohoo
11/2/2016 7:09pm
Or, if you are Barcia you can just wring the neck of it and still go fast.
( as long as it's not blue that is, or red )
JB 19
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11/2/2016 10:04pm
The 13-16 Honda 450's are the slowest stock bikes out there (horsepower wise)...but the last three years of racing theyseem to be the most winningest bikes...
The 13-16 Honda 450's are the slowest stock bikes out there (horsepower wise)...but the last three years of racing theyseem to be the most winningest bikes on our local tracks..with 450cc's, a slower bike seems to put in the fastest laps.
This. Fast mellow bike is best. A 450 with a mellow, electric powerband. Get on the gas sooner and hook up harder with the smooth no hit powerband. Basically a KTM 450 powerband.
JMX82
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Hyllykallio FI
11/2/2016 11:14pm
I have noticed that berms in corners have changed a lot from the days when most of the bikes where two strokes. There aren't anymore smooth flowing lines you can rail without losing momentum. The art of carrying speed in the in corners is disappearing skill and people just use point and shoot riding style with their big four fifties. It causes deep ruts develop in the corners and makes carrying momentum with my 150SX a lot harder. I still enjoy riding 150 two stroke a lot more than 450. Although I have been recently thinking about getting 250 two stroke which wont punish mistakes in the corners as much as the 150
Turbojez
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PL
11/3/2016 2:27am
Riding a slow bike fast would be my pick.

It makes you work on proper technique much more + WFO the throttle on every single straightaway going through all the gears puts a smile on my face every single time.
One thing worth noticing is the tracks are totally different in USA, you can actually use the power of 450's on some of them. On my local tracks, riding a 450 I would feel like the bike is about to die out of boredom and not being ridden hard enough.
11/3/2016 3:04am
This weekend I rode my 125 in practice and 250f for races. Without a doubt I had more fun on the 125, feels like I'm going faster. It's nice when the track is smooth and you can stay in the power in corners. Once track gets rough it's time to slow down.
11/3/2016 4:35am
The 13-16 Honda 450's are the slowest stock bikes out there (horsepower wise)...but the last three years of racing theyseem to be the most winningest bikes...
The 13-16 Honda 450's are the slowest stock bikes out there (horsepower wise)...but the last three years of racing theyseem to be the most winningest bikes on our local tracks..with 450cc's, a slower bike seems to put in the fastest laps.
JB 19 wrote:
This. Fast mellow bike is best. A 450 with a mellow, electric powerband. Get on the gas sooner and hook up harder with the smooth no...
This. Fast mellow bike is best. A 450 with a mellow, electric powerband. Get on the gas sooner and hook up harder with the smooth no hit powerband. Basically a KTM 450 powerband.
Haha..or a stock CRF450R powerband
1stSSPZ
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11/3/2016 5:41am
Riding a slow bike, fast! I proved it to the rest of my Over-50 vet class this last Summer on my 03 CR250r!

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