Realistic costs of maintaining and operating MX track

Cygnus
Posts
14849
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Hanover, CO US
9/13/2011 11:26am
and I forgot a 40+ man backwards falling starting gate...go price one of those babies ! have more than one track ? yep.

S
I Am Lucky enough I can borrow a 40 man gate from another track owner. Not sure about other parts of the country but here in Colorado most of the track owners hate the other owners I am lucky enough to be friends with matt from before I bought my land.
Sondy132001
Posts
4045
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mission Viejo, CA US
9/13/2011 11:29am
and I forgot a 40+ man backwards falling starting gate...go price one of those babies ! have more than one track ? yep.

S
Cygnus wrote:
I Am Lucky enough I can borrow a 40 man gate from another track owner. Not sure about other parts of the country but here in...
I Am Lucky enough I can borrow a 40 man gate from another track owner. Not sure about other parts of the country but here in Colorado most of the track owners hate the other owners I am lucky enough to be friends with matt from before I bought my land.
Believe it or not we have a good relationship with most of the tracks here in So Cal, we have two tracks but we still run at other facilities. Always take them into consideration too. Other promoters (non track owners) now that's another story Wink

S
race
Posts
3447
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
CA US
9/13/2011 12:11pm
and I forgot a 40+ man backwards falling starting gate...go price one of those babies ! have more than one track ? yep.

S
Cygnus wrote:
I Am Lucky enough I can borrow a 40 man gate from another track owner. Not sure about other parts of the country but here in...
I Am Lucky enough I can borrow a 40 man gate from another track owner. Not sure about other parts of the country but here in Colorado most of the track owners hate the other owners I am lucky enough to be friends with matt from before I bought my land.
Believe it or not we have a good relationship with most of the tracks here in So Cal, we have two tracks but we still run...
Believe it or not we have a good relationship with most of the tracks here in So Cal, we have two tracks but we still run at other facilities. Always take them into consideration too. Other promoters (non track owners) now that's another story Wink

S
I am guessing that Liability coverage differs a lot from state to state .... with Cali probably being on the expensive side?

Probably easy enough to factor in known / fixed expenses for a track. Estimating your income from it seems tougher and would depend a lot on whether you are doing practice only vs how big a draw you could get for one or multiple race series.

And then there's always the 'annual membership' thing. Unsure
downandup
Posts
1241
Joined
5/24/2010
Location
In A Cave, CA US
9/13/2011 12:18pm
Very informative thread!

Thanks all, for chiming in!

The Shop

jndmx
Posts
9659
Joined
1/20/2008
Location
South Kingston, RI US
9/13/2011 12:19pm
I work as the announcer for Winchester Speedpark in southern NH, we have an MX and an SX layout.

The track owners work their asses off and have to watch every penny.
Everybody thinks a track is a money machine because they only see race day......there are about 300 other days a year to worry about too.

Here in New England there are 4 months out of the year that everything sits and still needs to be paid for as well....since the OP is from New Hampshire also that is a big thing to think about.
Sondy132001
Posts
4045
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mission Viejo, CA US
9/13/2011 12:21pm
Hey we forgot the mortgage payment/lease payment on the facility itself !!

S
KC124
Posts
62
Joined
6/7/2011
Location
Bates City, MO US
9/13/2011 3:57pm
+ 1 on the lawsuits. A buddy of mine bought a track, poured his heart, sole and money into it, only to have a neighboring landowner sue him and basically force him to close by outspending him in court. (Yes the landowner was a lawyer and didn't reside on the property next to the track)
Sparkalounger
Posts
1322
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Minneapolis, MN US
9/13/2011 6:02pm
mxtech1 wrote:
i have a 2 mile private track that we maintain ourselves on our 200 acre family owned property. What we have for equipment is a 1954...
i have a 2 mile private track that we maintain ourselves on our 200 acre family owned property. What we have for equipment is a 1954 Ford 8n, a 5 foot disc, 5 foot harrow, a blade, and a bobcat. It takes alot of time to keep the track nice with such small equipment, but it can be done. The only thing I feel we really hurt for is a dozer. Our track is all natural terrain jumps and elevation. It's fun, but sometimes I wish we did have a dozer to put in some table tops, rollers, etc. But any decent old dozer would set us back $20 grand easily. However, having a dozer would probably open up so many more options for the track. It's almost a 1 day project to build a double take-off and landing with our bobcat because it takes so long to scrape dirt and move it in the bucket. a dozer could probably build the same jump in about 2 hours or less.

I know what it takes to cut a track in and build. If I could buy the equipment I wanted it would probably be something like this:
Cat D5 dozer - $25,000
80's Farmall tractor at least 85hp - $10,000
8 ft disc - $2,000
8 ft harrow - $2,000
6 ft power tiller - $4,000
Tracked skid steer - $15,000
Water truck- $10 to $20,000

All these prices are estimated on the low side. A guy could easily wrap up $100k in equipment right away. And to add to that, most large tracks have several pieces of each equipment.

It just depends how you want to go about it. It can be done on a budget like we did with our old Ford tractor and small implements and a bobcat. We probably only have about $12,000 wrapped up in the equipment we use. It's taken us about 3 years of continuous improvement and riding to really get the track to flow nice and build up natural berms. On the other hand though, we couldn't hold a race because the track is located in pasture off a beaten road.

Location and land has alot to do with it. I think our property is about the right size to house a national-caliber track, but it wouldnt be spectator friendly. Buying a piece of land that already has nice views, rolling hills, and big open spaces for parking (i basically just described what a crop field looks like.) Around here tillable land is going for $3 to 8,000 per acre. You can do the math, but 2-300 acres for an mx facility = alot of money.
on average your 25k dozer and 10k tractor will cost you double that in repairs over the first two years...
JustMX
Posts
4621
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
TN US
9/13/2011 6:56pm
on average your 25k dozer and 10k tractor will cost you double that in repairs over the first two years...
Gonna say nope on that one.

There are actually pretty good deals on heavy equipment out there.

Number one thing to check on track equipment is the undercarriage.

You can find solid machines like pre-hydruastatic John Deere, Case, and Cat machines for $10k-$12k.

If you aren't going to be moving it from one location to another you can buy a bigger machine cheaper than a 12,000 lb machine.

I like case equipment because they have independant Hi/Lo for each side that you can use to steer and not put wear on steering clutches. They are easier to work on than some other machines and there is a ton of salvge stuff out there.

Dresser international made good machines too but they were always tough for me to run because I am 6'2" and you sit down in them.

Saw a completely restored TD7 with a brand new undercarriage sell for $8k at an absolute auction.

There are deals out there. I would strongly recommend that you have somebody that knows equipment look at anything you are thinking about buying.

Stay away from 350 John Deeres like they are a 250F owned by a Beginner rider.

There are only 4 bolts holding them together at one place in the middle and if you start building whoops and/or do not know how to run one smoothly the will break in half.
Flesh206
Posts
299
Joined
4/30/2010
Location
Perrys, OH US
9/13/2011 7:18pm
I hate the reality of this thread.
SEEMEFIRST
Posts
10992
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Arlington, TX US
9/13/2011 8:46pm
Don't listen to them. It's a cake walk.
Just pile up a few mounds of dirt, open the gates, and watch the cash roll in.
wardy
Posts
1765
Joined
3/31/2008
Location
US
9/13/2011 9:11pm
hey where the hell is that "track" skidloader for 15k???? i will take 2!

ah and the what to run a race track discussion. well all i can say is it's fun, I love it.

It's not for everyone, and well if ya love it, then it's easy. so go for it!

Smile
gfmoto
Posts
59
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
9/13/2011 9:51pm
ask ryno about running your own track!
FHKRacingZ
Posts
299
Joined
10/28/2006
Location
Boise, ID US
9/13/2011 9:58pm
gfmoto wrote:
ask ryno about running your own track!
ask ryno about getting beat up!
1
EvanR127
Posts
921
Joined
1/22/2011
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
9/13/2011 10:31pm
I think most tracks here in socal get about 200 riders per day at $20 each thats 1,456,000 a year gross.

the top 3 costs are probably land, equipment, and insurance. Everything else is just hard work.

Probably need about 10 employee's to run smoothly.

Doesn't seem too profitable but if you own the land and can get a decent amount of riders it can be.
captmoto
Posts
5153
Joined
4/22/2009
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
9/13/2011 10:57pm
EvanR127 wrote:
I think most tracks here in socal get about 200 riders per day at $20 each thats 1,456,000 a year gross. the top 3 costs are...
I think most tracks here in socal get about 200 riders per day at $20 each thats 1,456,000 a year gross.

the top 3 costs are probably land, equipment, and insurance. Everything else is just hard work.

Probably need about 10 employee's to run smoothly.

Doesn't seem too profitable but if you own the land and can get a decent amount of riders it can be.
Are you talking raceday? I don't see it on practice days except maybe GH and Milestone.
EvanR127
Posts
921
Joined
1/22/2011
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
9/14/2011 1:29am Edited Date/Time 9/14/2011 1:32am
naw, I was thinking milestone, on average its probable less but still close

there was talk years ago about putting a track in orange county. ahh we can only dream....
Sondy132001
Posts
4045
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mission Viejo, CA US
9/14/2011 9:04am
EvanR127 wrote:
I think most tracks here in socal get about 200 riders per day at $20 each thats 1,456,000 a year gross. the top 3 costs are...
I think most tracks here in socal get about 200 riders per day at $20 each thats 1,456,000 a year gross.

the top 3 costs are probably land, equipment, and insurance. Everything else is just hard work.

Probably need about 10 employee's to run smoothly.

Doesn't seem too profitable but if you own the land and can get a decent amount of riders it can be.
You are crazy !! and it's $25.00 per bike. Glen Helen is open for Practice 3 days a week. I can only go off some tracks that I knew their monthly lease payment up in Marysville, let's say your monthly lease payment was $10,000 a month, yes $10k, then add all your employees, costs etc (everything above this post, that you have to pay for) you would need at least 100 riders per day for 30 days, every month to cover all your costs, tell me who does that ? every day.

S
Madmax31
Posts
2046
Joined
1/7/2009
Location
Cincinnati, OH US
Fantasy
83rd
9/14/2011 10:12am
KC124 wrote:
+ 1 on the lawsuits. A buddy of mine bought a track, poured his heart, sole and money into it, only to have a neighboring landowner...
+ 1 on the lawsuits. A buddy of mine bought a track, poured his heart, sole and money into it, only to have a neighboring landowner sue him and basically force him to close by outspending him in court. (Yes the landowner was a lawyer and didn't reside on the property next to the track)
I know this sounds horrible but I HATE aholes like that. Hope he dies a slow miserable death.
Big
Posts
1008
Joined
10/18/2010
Location
SE
9/14/2011 11:00am
KC124 wrote:
+ 1 on the lawsuits. A buddy of mine bought a track, poured his heart, sole and money into it, only to have a neighboring landowner...
+ 1 on the lawsuits. A buddy of mine bought a track, poured his heart, sole and money into it, only to have a neighboring landowner sue him and basically force him to close by outspending him in court. (Yes the landowner was a lawyer and didn't reside on the property next to the track)
Madmax31 wrote:
I know this sounds horrible but I HATE aholes like that. Hope he dies a slow miserable death.
Tell me where his bicycle is parked.......flat tire?
Hando
Posts
1571
Joined
11/13/2011
Location
US
12/18/2011 1:24pm
Sorry to grave dig but I have to ask

Are drag strips profitable??

If they are, perhaps having a drag strip and a motocross track on the property would be the ticket...
Midway MX
Posts
5
Joined
8/11/2017
Location
Charleston, SC US
8/11/2017 7:46pm
I know this is an old post but whoever said Fun events that are well promoted and prompt great spectator turnouts are the only way to make profits is pretty right on...
SCAM124
Posts
162
Joined
10/7/2014
Location
Northville, MI US
Fantasy
2180th
8/12/2017 5:29am
dboivin wrote:
member of one here in michigan. I think there is 3 total tracks in michigan that are club owned polka dots MC Bulldogs MC Portland Trail...
member of one here in michigan. I think there is 3 total tracks in michigan that are club owned

polka dots MC
Bulldogs MC
Portland Trail Riders MC

all of them operate much like you described. each one has different rules for their members. PDMC doesn't allow guests at all, Bulldogs allows 1 guest per member to ride there, not sure how Portland handles it. At PDMC, working the races gives you credit toward your dues....I like this model. People show up to work the races. Not sure how the others handle it.
Don't forget us moto-bros at Irish Hills MX!
potatoflake
Posts
474
Joined
9/28/2015
Location
Kennewick, WA US
8/12/2017 3:48pm
Don't forget that water, it can get spendy fast whether you're getting it from County or drilling your own well
wfo4ever
Posts
789
Joined
8/3/2014
Location
NC US
8/12/2017 7:57pm
Cygnus wrote:
The old saying the best way to make a million dollars in the motocross business is to start with two million applies to tracks more than...
The old saying the best way to make a million dollars in the motocross business is to start with two million applies to tracks more than any of the moto businesses you can venture into.
We have a winner!!!
MX558
Posts
1772
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
4/11/2018 1:37am
We had a small club track in I'll while back and I did a lot of the grooming , building and such . Definitely not a money maker but the owner already had the land and most of the equipment. We had members that where excavators so that helped a ton . The owner made some money but nothing to get rich from that's for sure . I'd never want to own a track , mostly because people bitch way too much
roninho
Posts
1622
Joined
7/14/2015
Location
IT
4/11/2018 2:55am Edited Date/Time 4/11/2018 3:00am
I am curious if there are many club owned tracks? Hangtown is right? We have two up here in Washington that have been here forever, is...
I am curious if there are many club owned tracks? Hangtown is right? We have two up here in Washington that have been here forever, is it even possible to get something like that started nowadays? I spent some time in Denmark and it seemed like every track there was a club owned one. It seems like the best scenario to me. Pay your dues, club members do the work, you ride pretty much when you want. Anybody have experience with this?
Over here in the Netherlands 95% of the tracks are owned & operated by (non for profit) clubs, and run by volunteers.
Same goes for the races, not done by a promoter who needs to make money on it and get a salary, but by the club itself and just volunteers.

The club does not pay salaries, so all the track work is done by volunteers and club members.
Flaggers are either volunteers and at some clubs if you want to race you have to also flag or provide a 'volunteer'.
Heavy equipment is either donated equipment or they use it for free/costprice from companies nearby.
Land is either government owned that can be used for a small fee (since it is a non-profit organization using it for sports), or it is cheap Agricultural land that they bought for cheap and get an excempt to use for mx (again only because they are non-for profit).

All these benefits wouldn't be available if it was a commercial business: Nobody would volunteer (why would i work for free if you make a profit), equipment would not be donated and land would cost significant money.

I'm actually surprised most tracks in the us appear to be commercial/privately owned tracks due to those disadvantages.

Same goes for the races: no need to have 20 classes and long days because the promoter needs to cater to all customers. Just 50cc, 65cc, 85cc, mx2 and mx1. If there are more then 20 riders in a class split it up based on speed. If there are less then 10 combine them with another small class. So no bs like 3 different mx2 classes (a, b and c) with a combined 17 riders.

Post a reply to: Realistic costs of maintaining and operating MX track

The Latest