Race fuel and remap

Michael_Scott
Edited Date/Time 2/9/2016 6:36pm
Hey guys I have a 2014 yz250f stock motor and exhaust wise. This previous weekend I ran a mixture of Sunoco 112 and Sunoco 93 50/50 mix and I lost power especially in the bottom. Are there any recommended race fuels and map combos? Or am I best just sticking with 93 pump gas?
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 2/8/2016 6:43pm
2/8/2016 6:43pm
Dyno tune it to a specific fuel

Period

(This is the single best tuning secret there is)
Tim507
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Tim507 2/8/2016 7:06pm
2/8/2016 7:06pm
DCR. Daniel Crower Racing effectively did this for my bike. He also rides a KTM350. He set me up with his cams, a Vortex ECU and MR12......all from his dyno work and motor skills EvilWoohoo

This bike flat rips the holey.....

WP Cone's on the bike.... now I'm spending my winter skiing, riding some and in the gym.....
mxb2
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mxb2 2/8/2016 9:13pm
2/8/2016 9:13pm
Benihana225 wrote:
If a stock bike why run race fuel?
Consistency, crisper, power.

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Benihana225
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Benihana225 2/8/2016 9:18pm
2/8/2016 9:18pm
Benihana225 wrote:
If a stock bike why run race fuel?
mxb2 wrote:
Consistency, crisper, power.
I get that but with 93 mixed with 110? I understand running u4.4 or mr12 to get what you listed but ive never noticed a difference from switching from 93 octane to 93 mixed with 110.
mxb2
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mxb2 2/8/2016 9:23pm
2/8/2016 9:23pm Edited Date/Time 2/8/2016 9:44pm
Benihana225 wrote:
If a stock bike why run race fuel?
mxb2 wrote:
Consistency, crisper, power.
Benihana225 wrote:
I get that but with 93 mixed with 110? I understand running u4.4 or mr12 to get what you listed but ive never noticed a difference...
I get that but with 93 mixed with 110? I understand running u4.4 or mr12 to get what you listed but ive never noticed a difference from switching from 93 octane to 93 mixed with 110.
Cant give my opinion on that, i ve used vp u4.4, renegade sx 4,mx4, sx4+, mite try some mr12 or pro6. to compare, Great fuels,worth the $$ if its in your budget , i run mine straight, mixing defeats the purpose imo.
Benihana225
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Benihana225 2/8/2016 9:45pm
2/8/2016 9:45pm
I know there's guys that have the tuner that change the maps on Thumpertalk
mxb2
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mxb2 2/8/2016 10:00pm
2/8/2016 10:00pm
Gytr tuner is a great tuning tool for the yzf s. , vortex ecu and remaps are great options also. Big difference in performance.
Zycki11
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Zycki11 2/9/2016 5:11am
2/9/2016 5:11am
Go to yamahas website and it shows maps for the stock setting as well as with race gas. Forget running the 112, if your going down that road just run U4.4
vikingBoy
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vikingBoy 2/9/2016 6:25am
2/9/2016 6:25am
I think people need to educate them selves before running race gas. Not trying to bash you OP at all, I just see these conversations all too often, and its pretty clear that 'most' people really don't know enough to make an educated decision about what's best for there current set up.

Just running a race gas that has a higher octane rating will really not do anything for your bike to make it faster, unless it is tuned, or compression has been raised.

Higher octane burns slower! So with a stock motor it would make less power, the peak cylinder pressure would be lower, resulting less work on the piston. Now if you advanced the ignition timing, to allow the flame propagation to start earlier, that would increase the cylinder pressure, and the resulting horse power. Or increasing CR would help utilize the slower burn from the fuel and allow it to build more cylinder pressure.

Now race fuels like MR12 or U4.4 are oxygenated fuels, with varying octane ratings. oxygenated means that there are oxygen molecules in the chemical make up of the fuel...and we all know that more air makes more power. So in this instance, you are getting more air in to your engine by oxygen in the gas.

If I remember, I think MR12 has a octane rating of 87. Which is pretty low, which means it burns fast, which is good in my book. As long as the fast burn can be stable, it should net more power.

Up to you OP, but if you have a stock engine with stock mapping, should be no reason to run race gas unless you want a custom map.
cslacker
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cslacker 2/9/2016 7:09am
2/9/2016 7:09am
vikingBoy wrote:
I think people need to educate them selves before running race gas. Not trying to bash you OP at all, I just see these conversations all...
I think people need to educate them selves before running race gas. Not trying to bash you OP at all, I just see these conversations all too often, and its pretty clear that 'most' people really don't know enough to make an educated decision about what's best for there current set up.

Just running a race gas that has a higher octane rating will really not do anything for your bike to make it faster, unless it is tuned, or compression has been raised.

Higher octane burns slower! So with a stock motor it would make less power, the peak cylinder pressure would be lower, resulting less work on the piston. Now if you advanced the ignition timing, to allow the flame propagation to start earlier, that would increase the cylinder pressure, and the resulting horse power. Or increasing CR would help utilize the slower burn from the fuel and allow it to build more cylinder pressure.

Now race fuels like MR12 or U4.4 are oxygenated fuels, with varying octane ratings. oxygenated means that there are oxygen molecules in the chemical make up of the fuel...and we all know that more air makes more power. So in this instance, you are getting more air in to your engine by oxygen in the gas.

If I remember, I think MR12 has a octane rating of 87. Which is pretty low, which means it burns fast, which is good in my book. As long as the fast burn can be stable, it should net more power.

Up to you OP, but if you have a stock engine with stock mapping, should be no reason to run race gas unless you want a custom map.
While much of what you say is correct, you might need a bit of education yourself about octane.... Higher octane does not burn "slower" as you state.
http://www.racegas.com/article/10

vikingBoy
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vikingBoy 2/9/2016 7:57am
2/9/2016 7:57am
I was making a more general blanket statement.

But I guess I stand corrected. Thanks
nascarnate326 2/9/2016 9:51am
2/9/2016 9:51am
Get some T-4 or some VPR from VP. Even on a stock map you will notice a positive difference. If remapped it will be even better.


Out of the pump fuels like Sunoco are made for automotive engines usually. Not worth the money.

IMO never mix race fuel with regular fuel. No ethanol is the whole point so adding it back in makes it worthless.

The Rock
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The Rock 2/9/2016 9:59am
2/9/2016 9:59am
Benihana225 wrote:
If a stock bike why run race fuel?
mxb2 wrote:
Consistency, crisper, power.
Unless you are in shape to the point your lap times don't increase at the end of the moto it doesn't matter what fuel you use IMHO
The Rock
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The Rock 2/9/2016 10:02am
2/9/2016 10:02am
vikingBoy wrote:
I think people need to educate them selves before running race gas. Not trying to bash you OP at all, I just see these conversations all...
I think people need to educate them selves before running race gas. Not trying to bash you OP at all, I just see these conversations all too often, and its pretty clear that 'most' people really don't know enough to make an educated decision about what's best for there current set up.

Just running a race gas that has a higher octane rating will really not do anything for your bike to make it faster, unless it is tuned, or compression has been raised.

Higher octane burns slower! So with a stock motor it would make less power, the peak cylinder pressure would be lower, resulting less work on the piston. Now if you advanced the ignition timing, to allow the flame propagation to start earlier, that would increase the cylinder pressure, and the resulting horse power. Or increasing CR would help utilize the slower burn from the fuel and allow it to build more cylinder pressure.

Now race fuels like MR12 or U4.4 are oxygenated fuels, with varying octane ratings. oxygenated means that there are oxygen molecules in the chemical make up of the fuel...and we all know that more air makes more power. So in this instance, you are getting more air in to your engine by oxygen in the gas.

If I remember, I think MR12 has a octane rating of 87. Which is pretty low, which means it burns fast, which is good in my book. As long as the fast burn can be stable, it should net more power.

Up to you OP, but if you have a stock engine with stock mapping, should be no reason to run race gas unless you want a custom map.
cslacker wrote:
While much of what you say is correct, you might need a bit of education yourself about octane.... Higher octane does not burn "slower" as you...
While much of what you say is correct, you might need a bit of education yourself about octane.... Higher octane does not burn "slower" as you state.
http://www.racegas.com/article/10

We never ran hi test at Mammoth after Horst Leitner gave me the heads up. I thought the reason was higher octane burns more slowly at altitude.

Correct or incorrect? I do know my bikes ran better on regular at Mammoth.
mxb2
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mxb2 2/9/2016 10:07am
2/9/2016 10:07am
Benihana225 wrote:
If a stock bike why run race fuel?
mxb2 wrote:
Consistency, crisper, power.
The Rock wrote:
Unless you are in shape to the point your lap times don't increase at the end of the moto it doesn't matter what fuel you use...
Unless you are in shape to the point your lap times don't increase at the end of the moto it doesn't matter what fuel you use IMHO
True, .

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seth505
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seth505 2/9/2016 10:39am
2/9/2016 10:39am Edited Date/Time 2/9/2016 10:40am
Benihana225 wrote:
If a stock bike why run race fuel?
mxb2 wrote:
Consistency, crisper, power.
The Rock wrote:
Unless you are in shape to the point your lap times don't increase at the end of the moto it doesn't matter what fuel you use...
Unless you are in shape to the point your lap times don't increase at the end of the moto it doesn't matter what fuel you use IMHO
You don't have to be in good shape to use crappy fuel and have detonation causing cylinder/head damage.

(that said, I hear most stock 4-strokes can run on pump gas just fine)
Michael_Scott 2/9/2016 3:55pm
2/9/2016 3:55pm
Ya seems like the Sunoco route was a bad decision and the u4.4 is the way to go I have the gytr tuner. Anyone have any maps?
Michael_Scott 2/9/2016 3:57pm
2/9/2016 3:57pm
vikingBoy wrote:
I think people need to educate them selves before running race gas. Not trying to bash you OP at all, I just see these conversations all...
I think people need to educate them selves before running race gas. Not trying to bash you OP at all, I just see these conversations all too often, and its pretty clear that 'most' people really don't know enough to make an educated decision about what's best for there current set up.

Just running a race gas that has a higher octane rating will really not do anything for your bike to make it faster, unless it is tuned, or compression has been raised.

Higher octane burns slower! So with a stock motor it would make less power, the peak cylinder pressure would be lower, resulting less work on the piston. Now if you advanced the ignition timing, to allow the flame propagation to start earlier, that would increase the cylinder pressure, and the resulting horse power. Or increasing CR would help utilize the slower burn from the fuel and allow it to build more cylinder pressure.

Now race fuels like MR12 or U4.4 are oxygenated fuels, with varying octane ratings. oxygenated means that there are oxygen molecules in the chemical make up of the fuel...and we all know that more air makes more power. So in this instance, you are getting more air in to your engine by oxygen in the gas.

If I remember, I think MR12 has a octane rating of 87. Which is pretty low, which means it burns fast, which is good in my book. As long as the fast burn can be stable, it should net more power.

Up to you OP, but if you have a stock engine with stock mapping, should be no reason to run race gas unless you want a custom map.
No offense taking, I appreciate your response!
vetmxr
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vetmxr 2/9/2016 6:36pm
2/9/2016 6:36pm
mxb2 wrote:
Consistency, crisper, power.
The Rock wrote:
Unless you are in shape to the point your lap times don't increase at the end of the moto it doesn't matter what fuel you use...
Unless you are in shape to the point your lap times don't increase at the end of the moto it doesn't matter what fuel you use IMHO
mxb2 wrote:
True, .
You could probably say the same about porting, pipes, graphics, bling, silencers. The only thing that I've ever found that really decreases my lap times is custom suspension valving and setting up. Really the only time that I probably use all the power of a 450 is on the starts. Otherwise stock is usually best for me whether I want to admit it or not. I've been riding /racing for over 37 years and I've never had race fuel not make a bike run better...stock or not. Plus its seems much more consitent to jet and tune with. Stay consistent.

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