Progress on the bike?!

Gilby122
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Edited Date/Time 1/30/2016 12:18pm
Probably get crucified for askin....but just curious how everyone feels about their own riding. I'm pushing the old man age (37) and only been racing about a year-ish. Always been a fan of the gym and do work in there, but feel like my riding isn't coming very fast. I'm in good shape and spend quite a bit of time on my bike, but when you don't know what you don't know, I have no clue how to "practice." The racing itself has helped me, but don't feel like I'm progressing like I should be. I'm super competitive...then I go to these races and I get beat by fat old guys that light up a smoke after the race and I feel like a chump! Just curious how everyone else views progress and if at any point it just "clicked" for you. I realize most of you have been on the gate since you were 4, but I got the late start in life. I know how I want to ride...just not sure how to get there?!
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Frodad78
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1/29/2016 11:29am
I'm of the same age and for me its picking one particular part of your technique and consciously working on it rather that going to the track and trying to go fast. There are videos, books, online stuff all kinds of resources that will help with technique. Practice good technique and the speed will come. If all else fails check out a riding school or coach, those guys will share some incredible knowledge with you. Good luck bro
TeamGreen
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1/29/2016 11:31am Edited Date/Time 1/29/2016 11:32am
Pick three things to work on, just like you do at the gym.

1. are you in the balls of your feet much?

2. Are you getting off the seat soon enough when exiting a turn that's rough?

3. Are you Death-Gripping?
imoto34
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1/29/2016 11:32am
Do you ride practice tracks with faster guys? Having fun for me was always the difference. Watch people who are quicker then you and if your at a practice track you may can ask faster guys for some tips or for them to slow it down a lil and let you follow for a few laps. Once you feel okay doing the jumps and you can flow thru the corners the rest will come. Its all about the fun and passion, thats why most of us moto guys have a life that is built around moto.
Zycki11
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Ankeny, IA US
1/29/2016 11:36am
I have also found watching races and picking out certain things each rider does well seems to help. Focus on a particular rider and their strengths, watch it closely, and then go mimic it. Everyone knows the typical technique. Elbows up a little, balls of your feet, weight the outside peg in turns, use your legs more than arms etc. Watch KR through turns with his positioning on the bike. Watch dungey enter, and exit turns and when he gets on the brakes and gas. Study the best, and duplicate it to the best of your abilities. Once you pick up certain areas, the others become easier and everything will start to fall in place.

The Shop

fidiot
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Denver, CO US
1/29/2016 11:40am
I would practice a certain jump, turn, section or whatever over and over and over again until I felt like I had made progress. Try that instead of just riding laps on a practice day. It also helps to try and keep up with someone who is a little faster than you to see what they are doing.
Gilby122
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1/29/2016 11:42am
Appreciate the responses! I have a pretty sweet track at my house. 40 acres of sand and a friend who builds tracks = nice private track! I can get around it no problem...but biggest issue at this point is speed. The fundamentals suck. I've done a lot of what you guys suggest (focus on certain techniques, emulate pros, follow faster guys)...but there always seems to be so much going on in my head -- telling myself to weight the outside peg, stand up here, elbows up, squeeze, look ahead etc...i feel like it's hard to improve. i do need to focus on just a couple. My other big issue is i always FEEL like I'm doing those things, but I'll film myself a lot and when I go back and watch it, it doesn't look anything like it felt. That's what I mean about not knowing what you don't know. I feel like my form is decent and I'm doing things right, but then I see myself and I'm like ... faaaaaaaack.
TeamGreen
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1/29/2016 11:43am
Zycki11 wrote:
I have also found watching races and picking out certain things each rider does well seems to help. Focus on a particular rider and their strengths...
I have also found watching races and picking out certain things each rider does well seems to help. Focus on a particular rider and their strengths, watch it closely, and then go mimic it. Everyone knows the typical technique. Elbows up a little, balls of your feet, weight the outside peg in turns, use your legs more than arms etc. Watch KR through turns with his positioning on the bike. Watch dungey enter, and exit turns and when he gets on the brakes and gas. Study the best, and duplicate it to the best of your abilities. Once you pick up certain areas, the others become easier and everything will start to fall in place.
BOOM

This is why I try to get riders to DVR races & study the riders and their techniques
peelout
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1/29/2016 11:43am
TeamGreen wrote:
Pick three things to work on, just like you do at the gym. 1. are you in the balls of your feet much? 2. Are you...
Pick three things to work on, just like you do at the gym.

1. are you in the balls of your feet much?

2. Are you getting off the seat soon enough when exiting a turn that's rough?

3. Are you Death-Gripping?
i death grip for days bro, white knuckle on the reg
TeamGreen
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1/29/2016 11:46am
TeamGreen wrote:
Pick three things to work on, just like you do at the gym. 1. are you in the balls of your feet much? 2. Are you...
Pick three things to work on, just like you do at the gym.

1. are you in the balls of your feet much?

2. Are you getting off the seat soon enough when exiting a turn that's rough?

3. Are you Death-Gripping?
peelout wrote:
i death grip for days bro, white knuckle on the reg
Yes, but, you're doin' a Buck-o-Five in the Whoops in The Baja, Bro!

And you lift.

So, there's always THAT.
Torco1
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1/29/2016 11:47am
Practice......lots and lots of practice. If that doesn't work, do drugs.
Tim507
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Oregon City, OR US
1/29/2016 11:48am
Old man age @ 37WhistlingDry

64 in 60 days and my daily workout is

Legs (so I cans stand up on demand)

Core related exercises - my plank is 3 minutes - yes it hurts (so I can sit upright etc)

Flexibility (so my reflexes work naturally and unimpeded)

Cardio on a concept 2 rower, slowly working my way up to two 20 minutes sessions every other day (so I have some wind)

Ride time

My goal is to be fit and have a misery index higher than my competitionWoohoo
Pirate421
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MA US
1/29/2016 11:48am
I know everyone says to ride your own race but it's true. If you spend too much time worrying about what place you are in or how other people are riding and you're not concentrating on what you are consciously doing, your technique will go to shit. After your technique goes, you get fatigued faster, you get arm pump and you generally just ride like a ragdoll until it's over. Get the technique down with good body position and the rest will come.
TeamGreen
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1/29/2016 12:09pm
Torco1 wrote:
Practice......lots and lots of practice. If that doesn't work, do drugs.
Learned that on the golf course?
wsc96
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1/29/2016 12:12pm
Could always pay for lessons though it sounds like you might be a little overwhelmed with practing technique as it is.

What others have said regarding watching other faster rides is key. See what lines they are using. When they are transitioning from standing to seated in each corner.

Get video of yourself riding at tracks where you can also watch faster riders at.

You say you've only been racing for one year but how long have you rode moto for total. 1 year is peanuts.
IWreckALot
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Fort Worth, TX US
1/29/2016 12:14pm
Gilby122 wrote:
Appreciate the responses! I have a pretty sweet track at my house. 40 acres of sand and a friend who builds tracks = nice private track...
Appreciate the responses! I have a pretty sweet track at my house. 40 acres of sand and a friend who builds tracks = nice private track! I can get around it no problem...but biggest issue at this point is speed. The fundamentals suck. I've done a lot of what you guys suggest (focus on certain techniques, emulate pros, follow faster guys)...but there always seems to be so much going on in my head -- telling myself to weight the outside peg, stand up here, elbows up, squeeze, look ahead etc...i feel like it's hard to improve. i do need to focus on just a couple. My other big issue is i always FEEL like I'm doing those things, but I'll film myself a lot and when I go back and watch it, it doesn't look anything like it felt. That's what I mean about not knowing what you don't know. I feel like my form is decent and I'm doing things right, but then I see myself and I'm like ... faaaaaaaack.
I picked up more speed when I got into mountain biking. Helps a lot with line choice.

Also, when you're riding, focus less on the brakes. A buddy of mine was asking constantly what I'm doing differently, and I got behind him in practice and he would brake WAY too early.
kkawboy14
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1/29/2016 12:14pm
Best advice I ever got was from Randy Yoho at Dade City Mx "son how much did you spend to get where you are?" Me: "$millions"........him: "then spend $50 on a riding school and don't just ride my track!"
Sandberm
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Pasco, WA US
1/29/2016 12:24pm
Id get away from the track and go play riding. Go out in the desert or any open riding area and hit natural jumps,whoops and turns to get a feel for the way your bike reacts. Find a jump that you can go faster an faster on, jumping farther an farther. Same with a whoop section, go faster an faster through them.

Then go back to the mx track and have that same having fun attitude.
Meister
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1/29/2016 1:25pm
Get the Gary Semics riding tapes.
Gilby122
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1/29/2016 1:28pm
Appreciate the responses guys! I did buy some of the Semics videos. They offer a ton of great info. The problem then is prioritizing and figuring out what to focus on cause trying to put it all together is overwhelming. I guess at this point I need a little more of the snow to melt before I can get back to it anyway........
Frodad78
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1/29/2016 1:31pm
Gilby122 wrote:
Appreciate the responses guys! I did buy some of the Semics videos. They offer a ton of great info. The problem then is prioritizing and figuring...
Appreciate the responses guys! I did buy some of the Semics videos. They offer a ton of great info. The problem then is prioritizing and figuring out what to focus on cause trying to put it all together is overwhelming. I guess at this point I need a little more of the snow to melt before I can get back to it anyway........
I would work on cornerspeed first, nail that and everything else gets easier.
mattyhamz2
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1/29/2016 1:42pm
Like someone else said, race your own race. Race the track and not the guys around you. It's easy to get caught up trying to race the other guys, you screw yourself up pretty bad that way. I like to think that's what happened to Craig last week, he found himself racing with the guy behind him instead of trying to continue to move forward and look what happened, they slowed the pace so much that Osbourne caugh them and ultimately let to Craig finishing third instead of what should have been a second at least. Coop and Osbourne on the other hand raced the track and moved themselves forward.

When I practice, I'll go out and do two slower laps to kinda warm up and then put the hammer down and try to go race speed as long as I can. when I start to get tired and feel my body positioning getting all out of whack I will slow down a little bit and gather myself back up, take a deep breath and get back to doing what I was doing. That is of course after 23 years of experience. Now I'm not the fastest in the world but I've always been told I'm smooth and have really good style, also that I make it look effortless. Just practice practice practice and the experience will start to kick in.
Falcon
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1/29/2016 1:50pm
Work on the desire, too. I first got "fast" when I was about 26, after years and years of practice and playriding. I think it had mostly to do with having broken up with a girlfriend and being all pissed off about life. I had a pissed-off desire to punish the track and get to that next corner faster than before, even if it meant blowing up the bike or killing myself. It became a DGAF situation and had less to do with skill and practice as it did with agression.

Try it, but it goes without saying that you should temper this idea with some brains. You are, after all getting older. (Not as old as I am now, but you're getting there, skippy.)

Another thing to try is to pick one section that you are comfortable with and practice that part as stupid fast as you can imagine, then slow down for the rest of the track. You can then slowly expand that section in both directions, so you are entering a little faster and going stupid fast for a few turns past the point where you had previously slowed down. Eventually, you'll get used to that speed and start riding the whole track at that rate.
FGR01
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1/29/2016 2:00pm
Totally guessing here since I've never seen you ride, but the #1 fundamental mistake I see beginners/novices making is sitting down too much, particularly sitting down way to early on corner entry.. as in all the way through the braking bumps. and a big contributing factor to this is the fact that they can't/won't use their controls while standing. They have to sit before they can relax their grip and use the clutch and brakes. This is where trails/woods riding helps. It forces you to get comfortable in tight technical situations and be able to use your controls easily whether sitting or standing.
Steadman
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1/29/2016 2:15pm
Gilby122 wrote:
Appreciate the responses! I have a pretty sweet track at my house. 40 acres of sand and a friend who builds tracks = nice private track...
Appreciate the responses! I have a pretty sweet track at my house. 40 acres of sand and a friend who builds tracks = nice private track! I can get around it no problem...but biggest issue at this point is speed. The fundamentals suck. I've done a lot of what you guys suggest (focus on certain techniques, emulate pros, follow faster guys)...but there always seems to be so much going on in my head -- telling myself to weight the outside peg, stand up here, elbows up, squeeze, look ahead etc...i feel like it's hard to improve. i do need to focus on just a couple. My other big issue is i always FEEL like I'm doing those things, but I'll film myself a lot and when I go back and watch it, it doesn't look anything like it felt. That's what I mean about not knowing what you don't know. I feel like my form is decent and I'm doing things right, but then I see myself and I'm like ... faaaaaaaack.
You sound identical to a buddy of mine (and we are all of the same vintage) He got into riding later in life as well.
After a few years of riding he was in the same place you are at. I have told him a hundred times it takes time..sometimes a long time to be able to be reasonable fast on a dirt bike. It's rare for people to be good at riding overnight. Be patient, it will come.
I also found my buddy was over analyzing , over thinking his every move on the track. Try to cut back on that. Keep the focus simple. Think fast, smooth, flowing.
Sometimes I'd ride with him on the track and pretend to be battling him. I would hoot and holler while going past, then let him go by me. We would swap back and forth for 15-20 minutes. It was only then I'd see him step up his level considerably. We would discuss during break and I'd point out that he was on it! I'd ask what was different this time out. He'd usually say he was more focused on me and I would respond with 'so you weren't thinking about when to brake, when to use the clutch or weight the outside peg and such' and I would normally get a curious look followed by a 'no'
My point is he was always way faster when he wasn't intently focused on EVERY single action he was performing.
Above all else never forget the FUN factor of riding! Wink
radialone
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1/29/2016 2:22pm Edited Date/Time 1/29/2016 2:25pm
You're getting a lot of advice here, which is good but could also feel overwhelming. Try to pick out a few tips that make sense to you and start with those.

I've been riding since I was a kid but never raced until last year (I'm 28). I felt like a pretty decent rider, but discovered quickly that trail riding (like I had done most of my life) and racing are two different things. These guys are no joke, For me, I tried to target specific areas where I felt like I was either struggling or getting beat (by the guys in my class) and then go work on those things. I also watch the intermediate and expert guys for things like form/technique or to see how they attack certain sections of the track.

If you feel like you're lacking speed, you have to identify why. Speed is the end result of riding with correct technique, line choice, execution, fitness, etc etc. So try to target the specific areas where you feel weakest and then go to work on them one at a time. You can't fix everything all at once. It's a growing process that's going to take time.
fins227
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Chillicothe, OH US
1/29/2016 2:39pm
Falcon wrote:
Work on the desire, too. I first got "fast" when I was about 26, after years and years of practice and playriding. I think it had...
Work on the desire, too. I first got "fast" when I was about 26, after years and years of practice and playriding. I think it had mostly to do with having broken up with a girlfriend and being all pissed off about life. I had a pissed-off desire to punish the track and get to that next corner faster than before, even if it meant blowing up the bike or killing myself. It became a DGAF situation and had less to do with skill and practice as it did with agression.

Try it, but it goes without saying that you should temper this idea with some brains. You are, after all getting older. (Not as old as I am now, but you're getting there, skippy.)

Another thing to try is to pick one section that you are comfortable with and practice that part as stupid fast as you can imagine, then slow down for the rest of the track. You can then slowly expand that section in both directions, so you are entering a little faster and going stupid fast for a few turns past the point where you had previously slowed down. Eventually, you'll get used to that speed and start riding the whole track at that rate.
Yes! X2

bh84
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1/29/2016 2:50pm Edited Date/Time 1/29/2016 2:55pm
I'm 23, been at it 11 years, Started riding 20 years ago. Used to do a lot of training, now I rely on playing hockey to keep me in shape for racing.

At this point I've broken 13 bones, wrecked both shoulders, both knees and really messed up some ligaments, plus 5 concussions. I still have the fitness, but even though I'm still competitive at the top level here in Canada, I feel like I've plateau'd I want to take corners faster, be more aggressive, but for some reason I can't bring myself to do it. I'm always within a second a lap of the front guys, but man, idk. I feel like I'm going slower than I used to. I think its more me getting used to the pace I ride at, but still, it sucks feeling like you should be faster.

If you ask me, its about finding your flow. Its hard to explain, but basically its about making the track "smooth out" in your head. Make the transitions between corners and jumps, straights and braking bumps flow together instead of being choppy. Idk if thats a good enough explanation, but it should feel more relaxed and easy. Also, move with the bike, you arent going to get anywhere trying to force it around the track, as one of my good friends would say, "let er dance" the looser you can be while riding, the better, it allows you to adapt quicker, correct mistakes, and tire less.
Gilby122
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WY US
1/29/2016 3:19pm
Falcon wrote:
Work on the desire, too. I first got "fast" when I was about 26, after years and years of practice and playriding. I think it had...
Work on the desire, too. I first got "fast" when I was about 26, after years and years of practice and playriding. I think it had mostly to do with having broken up with a girlfriend and being all pissed off about life. I had a pissed-off desire to punish the track and get to that next corner faster than before, even if it meant blowing up the bike or killing myself. It became a DGAF situation and had less to do with skill and practice as it did with agression.

Try it, but it goes without saying that you should temper this idea with some brains. You are, after all getting older. (Not as old as I am now, but you're getting there, skippy.)

Another thing to try is to pick one section that you are comfortable with and practice that part as stupid fast as you can imagine, then slow down for the rest of the track. You can then slowly expand that section in both directions, so you are entering a little faster and going stupid fast for a few turns past the point where you had previously slowed down. Eventually, you'll get used to that speed and start riding the whole track at that rate.
fins227 wrote:
Yes! X2

Oh the desire is there...trust me. It consumes me. I live for this sport...yet my wife thinks I hate it and I'm miserable. I'm miserable because I want to compete. I truly can't just go out and ride. It's gotta have a purpose. And if I get done racing and I got throttled by a fat old guy that smokes, I'm pissed!! I know I put more time in on my bike and in the gym than 99% of the people I'm riding with, but I'm not catching them. I ain't afraid to practice or to work hard. I own a business. I played college sports. My biggest issue is I'm not getting better (or I'm being way too hard on myself). But out of all the advice given here, and I appreciate it all, the biggest obstacle is the fact I don't know what good form is. I don't know what good technique is. I don't know if what I'm practicing is right. I feel like I'm going fast and doing it right....then I see a video and it sucks!

Guess I need to stream those Gary Semics videos again and pick out those couple things to focus on.

Opinions...what three things are the biggest focus? I think FGR01 hit the nail on the head. As of about 15 months ago, I couldn't ride standing up to save my life. Much better at it now, but still not totally comfortable. That's currently a focus of mine, which requires slowing down a hair. What else? Elbows? squeezing with the feet/knees? head position? I did notice this last weekend I felt like I was over the bars while accelerating, but I wasn't even close. There again...felt right, totally wrong.
Jeremy200
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1/29/2016 3:24pm
Gilby122 wrote:
Appreciate the responses guys! I did buy some of the Semics videos. They offer a ton of great info. The problem then is prioritizing and figuring...
Appreciate the responses guys! I did buy some of the Semics videos. They offer a ton of great info. The problem then is prioritizing and figuring out what to focus on cause trying to put it all together is overwhelming. I guess at this point I need a little more of the snow to melt before I can get back to it anyway........
Frodad78 wrote:
I would work on cornerspeed first, nail that and everything else gets easier.
this.

cornerspeed - entry and exit and use your brakes.

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