Pro Circuits way of doing things

Gringoe
Posts
1586
Joined
4/12/2014
Location
MP
7/30/2015 9:10pm Edited Date/Time 8/2/2015 7:48am
I can't remember the last time a pc bike won and I have not been able to say that the last ten years. There has been a big shift towards grooming young talent coming out of amateurs and taking them straight to their team. Geico star and now Troy lee has taken this approach to completley change the way amateurs turn pro IMO, and steal most of the best kids from Mitch (besides alldredge and ac, who was a done deal like 6 years ago).

Look at his team now for this year and next year, (and the last 5 in general) besides alldredge and ac, they have the arena cross champ, a Swiss guy, and a guy who they didn't want out of amateurs but do now a couple years down the line.

Cooper Webb, j Martin, bogle, anderson, barcia, Tomac, nelson (there's more that don't come off the top of my head right now) generally the last few years cream of the crop in the 250 class has mostly come from riders that have gone pro with a team that took them straight from amateurs to pro and are still with them.

I know this isn't a new theory, but In light of hearing that he might not have forkner locked up has me really starting to second guess his strategy of more experienced guys over rookies. He should do anything and everything he can to keep forkner because the kid is the real deal.

Not to mention he has 2 a class riders right now that could have a bright future most likely if they were thrown on the team, but again they don't for some reason.

Star racing and geico have both gambled big on the amateur kids and they have not disappointed for the most part.


Dont flame me to hard
|
gt80rider
Posts
6275
Joined
4/19/2008
Location
Boulder, CO US
7/30/2015 9:20pm
PC was so dominate for so long, good for them, but nobody can dominate forever. I have no doubt all this "not winning" will bring them back with a vengeance in the not too distant future.
Adam43
Posts
3179
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
WF
7/30/2015 9:51pm
Team Green was a hugely underrated part of PC's past success.

Many times, there were so many good kids on Kawis that Mitch could handpick the best ones.

Not the case any longer, since other OEMs are getting them young too.
7/31/2015 12:30am
When you have a HP advantage like PC used to have you could hand pick your riders and pay them low. Now that HP advantage is not there you have to pay high to hand pick your riders. It appears the other teams now have the budget and HP to take from the pool of riders PC would of in past years had a pick of.
7/31/2015 2:47am
Ive also seen and heard numerous times about the PC team giving contracts to riders that are performance based

The Shop

HenryA
Posts
3789
Joined
12/29/2011
Location
Stockholm SE
7/31/2015 2:53am
"A swiss guy" ? Laughing

What was Pourcel? Just a "French guy"?
IWreckALot
Posts
8676
Joined
3/12/2011
Location
Fort Worth, TX US
7/31/2015 5:33am
HenryA wrote:
"A swiss guy" ? Laughing

What was Pourcel? Just a "French guy"?
I hope that swiss guy ends up doing really well last season. He had a few pieces of the puzzle figured out and some really quick lap times. I was hoping he would come out and surprise us in SX but he got caught up in a couple of get offs and didn't show his potential. Then he went home for treatment.
Gringoe
Posts
1586
Joined
4/12/2014
Location
MP
7/31/2015 5:42am
HenryA wrote:
"A swiss guy" ? Laughing

What was Pourcel? Just a "French guy"?
Grinning no disrespect to him!
7/31/2015 6:15am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2015 6:15am
HenryA wrote:
"A swiss guy" ? Laughing

What was Pourcel? Just a "French guy"?
Gringoe wrote:
Grinning no disrespect to him!
But you said it Cool

It's like any sport, they can't own it all forever, eventually the others have to get a look in.

I see it like this.

AC didnt get hurt, SX title right there absolutely no question. Most likely 2.

Bowers should be good for a title fight indoors too.

Tonus is a definite threat outdoors, was, would be, should be, will be.

Aldredge is already starting to show but maybe next year

That's not a bad team
tprice07
Posts
2373
Joined
9/29/2009
Location
Fort Dodge, IA US
7/31/2015 6:18am
As soon as AC is back, they will do fine.
TXDirt
Posts
7384
Joined
7/29/2015
Location
Plano, TX US
7/31/2015 6:19am
Throughout the 90's and the early 2000's Mitch had his pick of the best amateurs by way of Team Green. Only a few guys were fast who were not on Team Green. Anybody who was anybody was on Team Green back then. It really starts on 80cc bikes. Flat out the Kawasaki's were the best bikes and lots of riders would transition from a KX 60 to the KX 80 and then to KX 125 as they got older. And they could do this with support from an excellent Team Green program.

This allowed Mitch to hand pick the best riders and to low ball them with contracts. Riders would be willing to ride for less money if they could ride for Pro Circuit/Kawasaki.

There has been a complete shift now.

I believe this is due to the other OEM's getting more involved at the amateur level but also willing to pay big bucks to get these kids on their team when they transition form 80's to the big bikes.

ProCircuit no longer has their pick of the best of the best. They must now compete for the best riders like everyone else. The other teams now have equal programs to ProCircuit in terms of performance, support, management, semi's, shops, testing, OEM factory parts support. All things being equal now the thing that talks the most is money. These other teams are willing to risk some serious dough to sign an up and coming rider. This is something Mitch never had to do in the past and he still struggles with it. It's not easy accepting the fact that the other teams have caught up to you and now to compete you have to pay a rider 3x-5x what you used to pay in the past. Tough pill to swallow.

7/31/2015 8:29am
Does Tonus have a contract with pc for 16? I sure hope he does, he's super fast indoor and outdoor and is very potential guy to take next win for Mitch.
ML512
Posts
15424
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
36th
7/31/2015 8:29am
Does Tonus have a contract with pc for 16? I sure hope he does, he's super fast indoor and outdoor and is very potential guy to...
Does Tonus have a contract with pc for 16? I sure hope he does, he's super fast indoor and outdoor and is very potential guy to take next win for Mitch.
Yup, Mitch has all of his current riders locked through 2016.
7/31/2015 10:43am
I think the catalyst for other teams challenging Pro Circuit's dominance came from Geico Honda's decision to stop using Pro Circuit for all of their bike mods. Ever since that point in time, PC's advantage has been removed.

What a revelation, right? Your biggest competitor supplies your team with after market parts and your bikes don't breath fire like theirs?? Wonder why....
TeamGreen
Posts
28671
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
7/31/2015 10:45am
Who's the best Team Green rider on a 250 now?
Gringoe
Posts
1586
Joined
4/12/2014
Location
MP
7/31/2015 11:13am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2015 11:14am
TeamGreen wrote:
Who's the best Team Green rider on a 250 now?
Toss up between Worth Saneyi and Harrison in the a class... It's hard to pick one of those three.

IMO the best rider team green is in b class, forkner. And he is already being linked to geico..
500guy
Posts
12478
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
7/31/2015 11:22am
PC was doing what hardly anyone else was and with more resources, it's just a simple fact the competition has caught up, this like everything will swing the other way eventually and pc will be back winning.
7/31/2015 11:23am
TXDirt wrote:
Throughout the 90's and the early 2000's Mitch had his pick of the best amateurs by way of Team Green. Only a few guys were fast...
Throughout the 90's and the early 2000's Mitch had his pick of the best amateurs by way of Team Green. Only a few guys were fast who were not on Team Green. Anybody who was anybody was on Team Green back then. It really starts on 80cc bikes. Flat out the Kawasaki's were the best bikes and lots of riders would transition from a KX 60 to the KX 80 and then to KX 125 as they got older. And they could do this with support from an excellent Team Green program.

This allowed Mitch to hand pick the best riders and to low ball them with contracts. Riders would be willing to ride for less money if they could ride for Pro Circuit/Kawasaki.

There has been a complete shift now.

I believe this is due to the other OEM's getting more involved at the amateur level but also willing to pay big bucks to get these kids on their team when they transition form 80's to the big bikes.

ProCircuit no longer has their pick of the best of the best. They must now compete for the best riders like everyone else. The other teams now have equal programs to ProCircuit in terms of performance, support, management, semi's, shops, testing, OEM factory parts support. All things being equal now the thing that talks the most is money. These other teams are willing to risk some serious dough to sign an up and coming rider. This is something Mitch never had to do in the past and he still struggles with it. It's not easy accepting the fact that the other teams have caught up to you and now to compete you have to pay a rider 3x-5x what you used to pay in the past. Tough pill to swallow.

This is pretty much sums up what Mitch was saying on PulpMX....
oshow
Posts
4085
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
GA US
8/1/2015 8:19am
TeamGreen wrote:
Who's the best Team Green rider on a 250 now?
Gringoe wrote:
Toss up between Worth Saneyi and Harrison in the a class... It's hard to pick one of those three. IMO the best rider team green is...
Toss up between Worth Saneyi and Harrison in the a class... It's hard to pick one of those three.

IMO the best rider team green is in b class, forkner. And he is already being linked to geico..
Forkner is signed with PC
Starcrossed
Posts
3162
Joined
4/16/2014
Location
New Bedford, MA US
8/1/2015 8:32am
TeamGreen wrote:
Who's the best Team Green rider on a 250 now?
Gringoe wrote:
Toss up between Worth Saneyi and Harrison in the a class... It's hard to pick one of those three. IMO the best rider team green is...
Toss up between Worth Saneyi and Harrison in the a class... It's hard to pick one of those three.

IMO the best rider team green is in b class, forkner. And he is already being linked to geico..
oshow wrote:
Forkner is signed with PC
I read somewhere on this site, from a reliable source if I recall correctly, that Geico has an offer on the table for Forkner.
ML512
Posts
15424
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
36th
8/1/2015 8:38am
TeamGreen wrote:
Who's the best Team Green rider on a 250 now?
Gringoe wrote:
Toss up between Worth Saneyi and Harrison in the a class... It's hard to pick one of those three. IMO the best rider team green is...
Toss up between Worth Saneyi and Harrison in the a class... It's hard to pick one of those three.

IMO the best rider team green is in b class, forkner. And he is already being linked to geico..
oshow wrote:
Forkner is signed with PC
As of a few weeks ago (when I was at Mammoth) he hadn't signed a contract with either team but he did have the offer from Factory Connection... he made it sound like PC hadn't even brought an full offer to the table yet.
machine
Posts
6405
Joined
1/5/2011
Location
Collettsville, NC US
8/1/2015 8:54am
TXDirt wrote:
Throughout the 90's and the early 2000's Mitch had his pick of the best amateurs by way of Team Green. Only a few guys were fast...
Throughout the 90's and the early 2000's Mitch had his pick of the best amateurs by way of Team Green. Only a few guys were fast who were not on Team Green. Anybody who was anybody was on Team Green back then. It really starts on 80cc bikes. Flat out the Kawasaki's were the best bikes and lots of riders would transition from a KX 60 to the KX 80 and then to KX 125 as they got older. And they could do this with support from an excellent Team Green program.

This allowed Mitch to hand pick the best riders and to low ball them with contracts. Riders would be willing to ride for less money if they could ride for Pro Circuit/Kawasaki.

There has been a complete shift now.

I believe this is due to the other OEM's getting more involved at the amateur level but also willing to pay big bucks to get these kids on their team when they transition form 80's to the big bikes.

ProCircuit no longer has their pick of the best of the best. They must now compete for the best riders like everyone else. The other teams now have equal programs to ProCircuit in terms of performance, support, management, semi's, shops, testing, OEM factory parts support. All things being equal now the thing that talks the most is money. These other teams are willing to risk some serious dough to sign an up and coming rider. This is something Mitch never had to do in the past and he still struggles with it. It's not easy accepting the fact that the other teams have caught up to you and now to compete you have to pay a rider 3x-5x what you used to pay in the past. Tough pill to swallow.

It's a combination of this and that Mitch's formula of bringing in older riders and give them a last chance to extend their careers and bringing guys from Europe to fill in the gaps, hasn't worked lout lately.
bsharkey
Posts
2163
Joined
6/16/2014
Location
Marysville, WA US
8/1/2015 9:06am
TeamGreen wrote:
Who's the best Team Green rider on a 250 now?
Gringoe wrote:
Toss up between Worth Saneyi and Harrison in the a class... It's hard to pick one of those three. IMO the best rider team green is...
Toss up between Worth Saneyi and Harrison in the a class... It's hard to pick one of those three.

IMO the best rider team green is in b class, forkner. And he is already being linked to geico..
Sanayei has tons of potential. Just needs to stay healthy. Been hurt a few times this year
He got second at monster cup to plessenger with a broken hand..the time worth landed on him and ran him into that wire fence didnt help ether
oshow
Posts
4085
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
GA US
8/1/2015 9:32am
Gringoe wrote:
Toss up between Worth Saneyi and Harrison in the a class... It's hard to pick one of those three. IMO the best rider team green is...
Toss up between Worth Saneyi and Harrison in the a class... It's hard to pick one of those three.

IMO the best rider team green is in b class, forkner. And he is already being linked to geico..
oshow wrote:
Forkner is signed with PC
I read somewhere on this site, from a reliable source if I recall correctly, that Geico has an offer on the table for Forkner.
PC got him. Sexton is Geico
oshow
Posts
4085
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
GA US
8/1/2015 9:32am
Gringoe wrote:
Toss up between Worth Saneyi and Harrison in the a class... It's hard to pick one of those three. IMO the best rider team green is...
Toss up between Worth Saneyi and Harrison in the a class... It's hard to pick one of those three.

IMO the best rider team green is in b class, forkner. And he is already being linked to geico..
oshow wrote:
Forkner is signed with PC
ML512 wrote:
As of a few weeks ago (when I was at Mammoth) he hadn't signed a contract with either team but he did have the offer from...
As of a few weeks ago (when I was at Mammoth) he hadn't signed a contract with either team but he did have the offer from Factory Connection... he made it sound like PC hadn't even brought an full offer to the table yet.
They did Thursday.
loftyair
Posts
2767
Joined
7/3/2009
Location
riverside, CA US
8/1/2015 9:41am
Savatgy is just not popular, yet. Some more podiums and maybe some wins will change things.
mx836
Posts
5579
Joined
4/2/2008
Location
; BF
8/1/2015 9:46am
It's a solid team. Wasn't their year though. Mitch has always had a history of hiring foreign riders and Tonus is no different. Savatgy is solid. AC will dominate if he ever reaches his potential. Alldredge could be good. He's fast, but young and full of crashes. Mitch has tried hiring the top guys away from other teams like he always used to, but they have stepped up lately.
kawirider819
Posts
707
Joined
10/18/2006
Location
st petersburg, FL US
8/1/2015 9:55am
bsharkey wrote:
Sanayei has tons of potential. Just needs to stay healthy. Been hurt a few times this year He got second at monster cup to plessenger with...
Sanayei has tons of potential. Just needs to stay healthy. Been hurt a few times this year
He got second at monster cup to plessenger with a broken hand..the time worth landed on him and ran him into that wire fence didnt help ether
You still think worth did that on purpose don't you?
UpTiTe
Posts
7744
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA US
Fantasy
4000th
8/1/2015 10:00am
Pro Circuit will continue to flounder until they put together a solid amatuer program. Mitch no longer has the pic of the litter when it comes to guys coming off team green anymore, because they are no longer the team all the fast kids want to be on.

Giecko and Star is team to be on for the fadt kids because they have a legit shot at a factory ride once they sign with them. KTM has figured this out with Orange Brigade and is starting to build a decent amatuer program. Until Mitch decide to get serious about an amatuer program, he will continue to flounder using other tesms left overs or hire foreign riders.
bsharkey
Posts
2163
Joined
6/16/2014
Location
Marysville, WA US
8/1/2015 10:33am
bsharkey wrote:
Sanayei has tons of potential. Just needs to stay healthy. Been hurt a few times this year He got second at monster cup to plessenger with...
Sanayei has tons of potential. Just needs to stay healthy. Been hurt a few times this year
He got second at monster cup to plessenger with a broken hand..the time worth landed on him and ran him into that wire fence didnt help ether
You still think worth did that on purpose don't you?
No I just think really poor judgement. The kid is a great rider
gsxr6
Posts
1956
Joined
9/3/2011
Location
Anderson, CA US
8/1/2015 1:36pm
Landshark wrote:
I think the catalyst for other teams challenging Pro Circuit's dominance came from Geico Honda's decision to stop using Pro Circuit for all of their bike...
I think the catalyst for other teams challenging Pro Circuit's dominance came from Geico Honda's decision to stop using Pro Circuit for all of their bike mods. Ever since that point in time, PC's advantage has been removed.

What a revelation, right? Your biggest competitor supplies your team with after market parts and your bikes don't breath fire like theirs?? Wonder why....
This.

Post a reply to: Pro Circuits way of doing things

The Latest