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12/18/2013
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HI
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Edited Date/Time
3/6/2014 6:38pm
I was just thinking about Broc's 450 PC ride as well as Deano and Tyla riding 450's outdoors last year. How "factory" are the PC bikes. How do they stack up to RV and Weimer's bike?
I agree it's hard to determine how they stack up to one another. But I have heard that Eli's 450 is the same as Barcia and Canards 450, just like the RCH bikes are the same as Stewarts bike. So basically I was wondering if PC received similar kind of factory support as RV's bike or if PC had to build the bike all on their own.
The Shop
What do you guys think the average price tag for a full works Monster Kawi, Musclemilk Honda, Redbull KTM, etc would be?
Most of the value in a factory motor is the development on the ECU to make high HP+ rideable (ie throttle gear mapping and good partial throttle feel), not in actually making a lot more power. Any team can develop that if they put in the time and effort. There is no special technology there that you can not buy and develop yourself. High end ECU technology (Motec etc) has been available for a decade.
Suspension? Factory suspension a few clicks off is worse than A-kit stuff from Enzo/FC/RG3 set up perfect. Again...any team can put in the work and get the settings pretty good if they have the right people on staff. Is JS7s suspension really even "factory". Their guru is the RG3 guy...right?
Weight. OK..I see how you can spend some money there. Ti will set you back some coin. But if you make every nut bolt and rod Ti...it will set you back about $10K I think. Are there any more critical parts that are Ti?...like engine internals (I know everyone uses Del West Ti Valves...but other than that?) Again...anyone can buy this stuff.
Tranny. $30K is a gross over estimate. If you hire an Engineer who has done gear design, you can spec it out yourself...and get a complete new stack made to fit. There are dozens of motorsports gear mfgs that know how to make gears with the right metallurgy and tolerances...MUCH better than OEM in fact. Maybe $10K to get actual parts made to your specs. Or if you are a satellite team...you can pay retail from the factory.... Word was prior to the season, Chad's price for a custom ratio Kawi was $15-$20K.. The main benefit is a really high and more useable 1st, and the rest of the ratios spaced off of that.
As ML512 noted...much of the dollars on the team go towards developing the settings... A non factory team can spend the same money in the same manner...and often get the same results...with a baseline bike that is a lot cheaper. Making a CNC brake lever or some other do-dad just because you can does not always make the bike faster.
Factory is not better than non-factory. Is it MONEY that matters. It can all be bought. Factory or not.
Pit Row
http://www.emcogears.com/custom-gearing/
What is Andrew shorts best finish in 2013 and 2014? One of those top finishes was on a nearly stock bike...with Enzo suspension.
I understand that these parts/services/labor are going to cost more because of the specialized R&D, labor and they don't have the advantage of a high volume production run, etc.
Or maybe not...I certainly have no idea.
So no I don't think he won on a stock bike, but he did pretty well in SX last year on a pretty much stock bike.
"The factory is using the cost of works parts to get profits and money out of America and back to Japan. A set of custom Ti footpegs doesn't cost anywhere near $3,000 to develop and build, yet that's what the Japanese factory will bill the American branch of the racing effort. That wasy they pay 3 grand for a 500$ set of pegs and Japan has gotten some extra money back to the homeland."
Same thing for things like the price of factory forks, gear boxes etc if they only make 10 sets a year........the cost it huge.
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