Privateer holeshots

CrashMaster
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7/21/2014 7:29am Edited Date/Time 7/23/2014 12:34pm
Why don't we see more privateers pull holeshots. When they do it's very rare. Do they really try to go for the holeshot? I can understand about the privateer 250's motor not pulling as hard as the pro circuit bikes motors for example. But what about the 450's, some of those privateers motors are powerful enough to hang with the factory motors. I was just sitting here pondering why we hardly never ever see some privateers pulling the hollie.
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Darryl916
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7/21/2014 7:31am
Horsepower! They don't have it. lol
IWreckALot
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7/21/2014 7:49am
I love watching the goPro of the starts. It's interesting to watch the technique that the front guys use.

As for Privateers not getting them, I imagine it's a combination of all the bikes offer. Suspension, engine and ignition mapping. And generally speaking, the privateers are privateers for a reason. Not trying to bash them, but if they were top caliber riders, they'd be getting better starts and be on factory bikes. All just my opinion.
Ardfarkl
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7/21/2014 7:52am
#452 - James Marshall - The Outlaw! He was a hole shot wizard in SX until his wreck at San Diego 2006. Awesome dude!
7/21/2014 8:00am
1977 Lebanon, Tn 500 Support class. Back then no National numbers below 20 allowed in the support classes. I holeshot moto one with #21 Arlo Englund's Factory Husky in second. Stock bike right off the floor. I was 29 years old.



The Shop

DL
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7/21/2014 8:03am
Good topic. Rocket is a small company that focuses on racing. When it comes to marketing dollars it has always come down to a choice of going racing. I am very proud of what we have accomplished this year with our race engines. My son has numerous good starts, A1 and A2 heat races and most notably Vegas in West Coast Main. Kyle Peters neat grabbed the start at Budds Creek last weekend. He has had numerous good starts. Brad Nauditt Heat 1 and Peters Heat 2 in Toronto Hole Shots were awesome too. Blowing my own horn? Yes. Been hoping the media grabs a hold of it.......




MxKing809
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7/21/2014 8:06am
There are a few local pro's who qualified for the local pro national and by the first turn looked like they were in protect mode. I was wondering if they told the back guys..... 'Look, one of you guys bonzai the first corner and you're black flagged'.
Seb24
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7/21/2014 8:11am
Jacob Saylor #198 a couple years ago
DonM
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7/21/2014 8:11am
It's also gate position on the start, if you're way outside it will only magnify the the differences between a privateer bike and a someone who has the testing and setup (mapping) for starts.
MarkF
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7/21/2014 8:21am
I believe it is a combination of technique, gate pick and equipment. At the national level it is harder to rely on just one of those things. The factory guys have a combination of all three, therefore, getting most of the starts. At the local level it is not uncommon to see a 250 beat a 450 to the first turn, so it can't just be horsepower. Remember the starts at the Bud's Creek mxon?
Darryl916
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7/21/2014 10:03am
MarkF wrote:
I believe it is a combination of technique, gate pick and equipment. At the national level it is harder to rely on just one of those...
I believe it is a combination of technique, gate pick and equipment. At the national level it is harder to rely on just one of those things. The factory guys have a combination of all three, therefore, getting most of the starts. At the local level it is not uncommon to see a 250 beat a 450 to the first turn, so it can't just be horsepower. Remember the starts at the Bud's Creek mxon?
Good point. RV pulled it on a 250 in a combined moto and checked out!
7/21/2014 11:26am Edited Date/Time 7/21/2014 11:26am
1st thing i to say what is a privateer?
7/21/2014 12:04pm
Why don't we see more privateers pull holeshots. When they do it's very rare. Do they really try to go for the holeshot? I can understand...
Why don't we see more privateers pull holeshots. When they do it's very rare. Do they really try to go for the holeshot? I can understand about the privateer 250's motor not pulling as hard as the pro circuit bikes motors for example. But what about the 450's, some of those privateers motors are powerful enough to hang with the factory motors. I was just sitting here pondering why we hardly never ever see some privateers pulling the hollie.
Who on that line doesn't try for the holeshot? Find the guy and tell me his name, I have a message for him.
7/21/2014 12:30pm
I think it is in this order:

1.Technique
2. Gate Pick
3. Motor

But the best guys have all three!

It is hard to get a great start from a gate pick outside the top 20 and that's where most of the privateers are.
crusty_xx
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7/21/2014 12:39pm
Dennis Ullrich (mxon team germany last year and maybe this year again) pulled some 'almost holeshots' in MX1 GP this season. He's an incredible starter, from 6 motos in German MX Series he scored 4 Holeshots (theres some redbull competition to it).
Almost holeshotted the Open qualifier at mxon last year as well from the outside
& he is a real privateer working during the week
7/21/2014 12:52pm
1. Perennial holeshotters want and/or expect it more than the other guys.

2. Technique, gate, and bike (while important factors) are secondary to mindset.

Imo of course.



7/21/2014 12:55pm
Here is what happens when you get a good jump, have a pretty good motor (not as good as the best, but pretty good), and have a bad gate pick. Those guys on the inside (good gate picks) do not let off, and here is the result!

Matt Burkeen Muddy Creek Moto 2

MarkF
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7/21/2014 1:08pm
1. Perennial holeshotters want and/or expect it more than the other guys. 2. Technique, gate, and bike (while important factors) are secondary to mindset. Imo of...
1. Perennial holeshotters want and/or expect it more than the other guys.

2. Technique, gate, and bike (while important factors) are secondary to mindset.

Imo of course.



I agree totally about mindset, however, I would include that in technique.Cool
SKlein
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7/21/2014 1:21pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2014 1:21pm
Why don't we see more privateers pull holeshots. When they do it's very rare. Do they really try to go for the holeshot? I can understand...
Why don't we see more privateers pull holeshots. When they do it's very rare. Do they really try to go for the holeshot? I can understand about the privateer 250's motor not pulling as hard as the pro circuit bikes motors for example. But what about the 450's, some of those privateers motors are powerful enough to hang with the factory motors. I was just sitting here pondering why we hardly never ever see some privateers pulling the hollie.
Crazy, I was just thinking about this same exact thing. In Supercross you are able to see at least a few privateers squeeze up in that top group for the holeshot. The same doesn't seem to apply for Outdoors. Understandably though, factory bikes on longer starts should be dominating those guys all day long.
7/21/2014 1:40pm
Martin's 250F motor has to last 2 hours, our has to last 2 months.
plowboy
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7/21/2014 1:57pm
There has to be at least a passing thought..."If I go for a holey and gorf it and take out a title contender...I will be crucified". Just saying that it's different when the fast boys screw up vs a privateer. You know I ain't lying.
7/21/2014 2:18pm
1. Perennial holeshotters want and/or expect it more than the other guys. 2. Technique, gate, and bike (while important factors) are secondary to mindset. Imo of...
1. Perennial holeshotters want and/or expect it more than the other guys.

2. Technique, gate, and bike (while important factors) are secondary to mindset.

Imo of course.



MarkF wrote:
I agree totally about mindset, however, I would include that in technique.Cool
Smile
Old Mate
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7/21/2014 2:30pm
My young bloke pulled heaps of AMA 450sx holshots, even 1 in the main and smoked a few semis and that was a box stock engine with a Yoshi pipe, every privateer can have that, only raced 4 rounds for a holiday break from Aus racing to stay fit.
JW381
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Harrisburg, OR US
7/21/2014 2:44pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2014 2:45pm
I would say it's more technique than most of us would guess. I remember reading an article in Dirt Rider a while back where this average Joe guy got to race Ryan Hughes for a day, and each race Ryan would step down from an RMZ450, to an RM125, to an RM85 and then to a drz-125. Ryno got the holeshot on all bikes except for the DRZ. The average joe guy was on his personal 450 for every race.

I'm not comparing privateers to average Joes, but I think that proper technique plays a huge part off the gate. The same question could be asked "why do some of the same guys routinely get holeshots?"
rosebud441
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Bellingham, WA US
7/21/2014 2:51pm
1977 Lebanon, Tn 500 Support class. Back then no National numbers below 20 allowed in the support classes. I holeshot moto one with #21 Arlo Englund's...
1977 Lebanon, Tn 500 Support class. Back then no National numbers below 20 allowed in the support classes. I holeshot moto one with #21 Arlo Englund's Factory Husky in second. Stock bike right off the floor. I was 29 years old.



That is cool story.. Love vital for little stuff like this..

I pulled a few in my 125 jr days.. Oh shit, i am leading now what..
Old Mate
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7/21/2014 7:11pm
Old Mate wrote:
My young bloke pulled heaps of AMA 450sx holshots, even 1 in the main and smoked a few semis and that was a box stock engine...
My young bloke pulled heaps of AMA 450sx holshots, even 1 in the main and smoked a few semis and that was a box stock engine with a Yoshi pipe, every privateer can have that, only raced 4 rounds for a holiday break from Aus racing to stay fit.
After 20 years of MX coaching i have found in younger riders its the kids that do lots of running races or swimming races that are better starters, with the pros i find its the riders who expect to win
nc_mx_kid
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Team Charlotte Motorsports, NC US
7/23/2014 12:33pm
I remember Daniel and Vincent Blair getting nice holeshots in SX but couldn't find a photo



OR Larry Ward#10 aboard a MOTOXXX Yamah Yz250F



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