Pie in sky - Reed, 250SX FE

Calamity
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Edited Date/Time 11/23/2015 10:53am
As stated, my pie in the sky splintered idea:

(I know the bike doesn't exist, but...)
-Reed with KTM deal to ride 250SX FE (the new chassis anyway)
-Modest salary but HUGE race bonus structure to put it on the box in 450 Mains

Before I get flamed, I'm not a 2 stroke homer, I like both 2 and 4. This deal would be ideal for a rider that's already decorated and doesn't need to prove anything to anyone to secure future career or contracts. Just someone out for blood. (Reed)

Bike would be too slow you say? But it's too fast too race heads up on 250F's?? I see the top 250F guys laying down laptimes right in there with the 450's. So??? Point being, I think an updated and dialed 250 2T can still be plenty competitive with 450s. .
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ga_pike
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11/20/2015 9:06pm
Hey, we all have dreams right? Some people just do different drugs than others. LOL
Calamity
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11/20/2015 9:25pm
Exactly! What the heck, put him on a 1987 RM80 like your profile pic!

We saw how much attention/ exposure Steinke got riding the 125 to 23rds in the Nationals. Putting an "archaic" dinosaur in the main/ top 10/ on the BOX in 450SX would bring the house down! ..And that's Reed's game; max exposure, max limelight, undedog...
Rich Piano
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11/20/2015 9:49pm
Truth is, if Stew and Reed were on 2 strokes at A1, no one would see anything else.
All eyes would be on them.

The Shop

visser62
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11/20/2015 10:01pm
Calamity wrote:
As stated, my pie in the sky splintered idea: (I know the bike doesn't exist, but...) -Reed with KTM deal to ride 250SX FE (the new...
As stated, my pie in the sky splintered idea:

(I know the bike doesn't exist, but...)
-Reed with KTM deal to ride 250SX FE (the new chassis anyway)
-Modest salary but HUGE race bonus structure to put it on the box in 450 Mains

Before I get flamed, I'm not a 2 stroke homer, I like both 2 and 4. This deal would be ideal for a rider that's already decorated and doesn't need to prove anything to anyone to secure future career or contracts. Just someone out for blood. (Reed)

Bike would be too slow you say? But it's too fast too race heads up on 250F's?? I see the top 250F guys laying down laptimes right in there with the 450's. So??? Point being, I think an updated and dialed 250 2T can still be plenty competitive with 450s. .
It doesn't matter that they can put down the same laptimes. When you race a 250 against a 450, you can't keep up with them when you're blocking in corners and battling. If he had a clear track ahead of him, hypothetically he could put up some good laptimes, but if he starts behind anybody, he's getting screwed.
Calamity
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11/20/2015 10:10pm
Reed could put a good 2 stroke into a 450 main wearing a pair of acid wash Levi's, hiking boots, gardening gloves and a golf visor. If the bike was actually developed, tested and dialed... who knows what potential it'd hold.

So KTM has rolled the new light/ updated chassis to all the MX bikes (including 150 2T right?)... It would be naive to think they're not locked and loaded at this point to roll the new 250 out.
bvm111
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11/20/2015 10:27pm
Oh boy!

This thread rocks!



visser62
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11/20/2015 10:32pm
Calamity wrote:
Reed could put a good 2 stroke into a 450 main wearing a pair of acid wash Levi's, hiking boots, gardening gloves and a golf visor...
Reed could put a good 2 stroke into a 450 main wearing a pair of acid wash Levi's, hiking boots, gardening gloves and a golf visor. If the bike was actually developed, tested and dialed... who knows what potential it'd hold.

So KTM has rolled the new light/ updated chassis to all the MX bikes (including 150 2T right?)... It would be naive to think they're not locked and loaded at this point to roll the new 250 out.
They're not "locked and loaded" for their 250 to race supercross.
kiwifan
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11/20/2015 11:00pm
Why KTM? He is more likely to ride a YZ250 than a 250SX, why? Because hes currently riding Yammies
Calamity
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11/20/2015 11:18pm
kiwifan wrote:
Why KTM? He is more likely to ride a YZ250 than a 250SX, why? Because hes currently riding Yammies
Well, mainly because I doubt any of the other manufacturers (save Husky) would have any interest putting any funds or effort into a 2 stroke program. That'd be great if he did the YZ! Just doubt Yamaha would offer much if any support.

Olson
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11/21/2015 1:46am
KTM doesn't need to hire a 35 year old fisherman to put one of their bikes on the box. They win championships on every bike they offer.
mayzo
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11/21/2015 3:31am
CCCHHHAAAARRRGGGGIIIINNNNNGGGG
mayzo
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11/21/2015 3:33am
bvm111 wrote:
Oh boy! This thread rocks! [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/11/20/111990/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
Oh boy!

This thread rocks!



Maybe I am, Maybe I'm not.
11/21/2015 10:22am
Olson wrote:
KTM doesn't need to hire a 35 year old fisherman to put one of their bikes on the box. They win championships on every bike they...
KTM doesn't need to hire a 35 year old fisherman to put one of their bikes on the box. They win championships on every bike they offer.
PinchSmileLaughing

That's some funny stuff right there.
Wink
h&m_cycle
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11/21/2015 10:33am
These boys are workin' on that dream scooter 250sx FE (FE stands for Fred & Ed R&D)



40Plus_922mx
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11/21/2015 11:17am
Oh how quickly we forget.

Yes, there would be so much hype around that if they were to plan ride the smokers. However, every other rider on thumps would now know they have the advantage. This would play into the start as 7 and 22 got SMOKED by the traction monsters.

Have we forgotten when guys like MC, DV etc tried to race the smokers for a few rounds only to get stomped by the thumps? And that was 10 year ago thump technology. Today the smokers are the same as ten years ago and the thumps are that much better.

So the funnest part and most exciting part would just be the talk and hype all before the gate drops. Like this post.

The ONLY way smokers will ever be competitive in the SX races is if we drop the thumps all back to 250F's to race cc's for cc's. Or allow 450cc smokers into the 450F class.
Camp332
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11/21/2015 11:26am
Holy calamity screamin insanity!
11/21/2015 12:00pm Edited Date/Time 11/21/2015 12:04pm
Rich Piano wrote:
Truth is, if Stew and Reed were on 2 strokes at A1, no one would see anything else.
All eyes would be on them.
For about 30 seconds. Then they would start watching riders that make the main.

And on the harder packed SX tracks...250fs would still be faster than 250 two strokes. There is no substitute for throttle modulation. 2Ts develop too much power at low throttle openings due to expansion chamber dynamics. This reduces min corner speeds lot, which is where 4Ts stomp 2Ts. Fun yes. Great sound...yes. But competitive? Not even close.
Olson
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11/21/2015 12:09pm
Rich Piano wrote:
Truth is, if Stew and Reed were on 2 strokes at A1, no one would see anything else.
All eyes would be on them.
For about 30 seconds. Then they would start watching riders that make the main. And on the harder packed SX tracks...250fs would still be faster than...
For about 30 seconds. Then they would start watching riders that make the main.

And on the harder packed SX tracks...250fs would still be faster than 250 two strokes. There is no substitute for throttle modulation. 2Ts develop too much power at low throttle openings due to expansion chamber dynamics. This reduces min corner speeds lot, which is where 4Ts stomp 2Ts. Fun yes. Great sound...yes. But competitive? Not even close.
+1
11/21/2015 1:04pm Edited Date/Time 11/21/2015 1:06pm
Oh how quickly we forget. Yes, there would be so much hype around that if they were to plan ride the smokers. However, every other rider...
Oh how quickly we forget.

Yes, there would be so much hype around that if they were to plan ride the smokers. However, every other rider on thumps would now know they have the advantage. This would play into the start as 7 and 22 got SMOKED by the traction monsters.

Have we forgotten when guys like MC, DV etc tried to race the smokers for a few rounds only to get stomped by the thumps? And that was 10 year ago thump technology. Today the smokers are the same as ten years ago and the thumps are that much better.

So the funnest part and most exciting part would just be the talk and hype all before the gate drops. Like this post.

The ONLY way smokers will ever be competitive in the SX races is if we drop the thumps all back to 250F's to race cc's for cc's. Or allow 450cc smokers into the 450F class.
Agree.. Let's not all get too upset because a 250cc two stroke is at a slight disadvantage against a 450cc four stroke. That's a 200cc smaller engine everyone tries to hold to the same standard. But something tells me if you took Carmichael in 02 on his 02 Honda 250R he'd probably smoke everyone in the 450 nationals to this day..maybe, maybe not, but I think he would...anyway... Yeah, allow 450 two strokes with modern chassis and suspension to be develepe and dialed in then.... THEN let's see what's up!
BobPA
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11/21/2015 1:34pm
Agree.. Let's not all get too upset because a 250cc two stroke is at a slight disadvantage against a 450cc four stroke. That's a 200cc smaller...
Agree.. Let's not all get too upset because a 250cc two stroke is at a slight disadvantage against a 450cc four stroke. That's a 200cc smaller engine everyone tries to hold to the same standard. But something tells me if you took Carmichael in 02 on his 02 Honda 250R he'd probably smoke everyone in the 450 nationals to this day..maybe, maybe not, but I think he would...anyway... Yeah, allow 450 two strokes with modern chassis and suspension to be develepe and dialed in then.... THEN let's see what's up!
RC would get stomped on a two stroke.....Windham was beating him outdoors on a 450....
Gringoe
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11/21/2015 2:10pm
BobPA wrote:
RC would get stomped on a two stroke.....Windham was beating him outdoors on a 450....
Ya lets just forget the fact that kdub also has beat him on a 250 2 smoke

Give rc a 250 smoker and he wins the outdoor championship every time .

Yes he would beat dungey and poto. He wouldn't be able to do it every weekend maybe but the guy won every outdoor title he ever raced and you say he'd get "stomped"... It's Ricky fucking Carmichael bub and all of his two smokes were fast as shit. Sx no he wouldn't win .


Op you are on drugs if you think reed or anyone besides a young js7 would be able to podium a sx. Sx is a traction game, smoker loses that fight every time, bad.
GuyB
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11/21/2015 3:34pm
Rich Piano wrote:
Truth is, if Stew and Reed were on 2 strokes at A1, no one would see anything else.
All eyes would be on them.
I'm sure plenty of eyes would be on the winners.

Some people would be watching the two-strokes, too.
11/21/2015 3:48pm Edited Date/Time 11/21/2015 3:50pm
BobPA wrote:
RC would get stomped on a two stroke.....Windham was beating him outdoors on a 450....
Gringoe wrote:
Ya lets just forget the fact that kdub also has beat him on a 250 2 smoke Give rc a 250 smoker and he wins the...
Ya lets just forget the fact that kdub also has beat him on a 250 2 smoke

Give rc a 250 smoker and he wins the outdoor championship every time .

Yes he would beat dungey and poto. He wouldn't be able to do it every weekend maybe but the guy won every outdoor title he ever raced and you say he'd get "stomped"... It's Ricky fucking Carmichael bub and all of his two smokes were fast as shit. Sx no he wouldn't win .


Op you are on drugs if you think reed or anyone besides a young js7 would be able to podium a sx. Sx is a traction game, smoker loses that fight every time, bad.
probably but he had to work a lot harder that year windham and I think it was ferry won motos. You could
Clearly see at the races he was at a disadvantage
11/21/2015 6:05pm
Reed's not even competitive on a 450.. Whistling
In SX he still wins a race here and there. Is that not competitive? Agree in MX.... but in SX he can still get it done if things go right.
11/21/2015 6:11pm
Rich Piano wrote:
Truth is, if Stew and Reed were on 2 strokes at A1, no one would see anything else.
All eyes would be on them.
For about 30 seconds. Then they would start watching riders that make the main. And on the harder packed SX tracks...250fs would still be faster than...
For about 30 seconds. Then they would start watching riders that make the main.

And on the harder packed SX tracks...250fs would still be faster than 250 two strokes. There is no substitute for throttle modulation. 2Ts develop too much power at low throttle openings due to expansion chamber dynamics. This reduces min corner speeds lot, which is where 4Ts stomp 2Ts. Fun yes. Great sound...yes. But competitive? Not even close.
This is how you know someone has only been watching SX for like 3 years.
11/22/2015 3:51pm Edited Date/Time 11/22/2015 4:01pm
Rich Piano wrote:
Truth is, if Stew and Reed were on 2 strokes at A1, no one would see anything else.
All eyes would be on them.
For about 30 seconds. Then they would start watching riders that make the main. And on the harder packed SX tracks...250fs would still be faster than...
For about 30 seconds. Then they would start watching riders that make the main.

And on the harder packed SX tracks...250fs would still be faster than 250 two strokes. There is no substitute for throttle modulation. 2Ts develop too much power at low throttle openings due to expansion chamber dynamics. This reduces min corner speeds lot, which is where 4Ts stomp 2Ts. Fun yes. Great sound...yes. But competitive? Not even close.
This is how you know someone has only been watching SX for like 3 years.
And your response is what is called an argumentum ad hominem. That is an attack on an argument made by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, rather than attacking the argument directly. It is generally the sign of lesser intelligence, or plain laziness. I will give you some credit...dont be so lazy.

It is a fact that two strokes make a much higher percentage of power at low throttle openings than 4Ts. It has to do with the way pressure waves and port timings in 2T expansion chambers work. This means when you get on the gas on a 2T...you break traction much more easily. This is why 2Ts favor inside lines...point and squirt...squaring up corners, etc. The min corner speeds (the slowest point a bike hits in a given corner) are MUCH slower for 2Ts. Even with less peak HP...a 250f will enable a rider to clear things that a 250 2T cant because of corner exit speed. It is just the way it is, and it will never change due to the way expansion chambers work. If you do not know how expansion chambers work...read Gordon Blairs 2T book....

The advantage of modern 4Ts is still growing because of EFI and ECUs... Teams put a LOT of work into tuning the ECU to achieve partial throttle characteristics the riders like. This is something you can not do with a 2T at all.

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