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GENEVA -- Italy's Andrea Bartolini and Dutchman Gert-Jan Van Doorn were suspended by the International Motorcycling Federation (FIM) on Friday after testing positive for banned substances at the Swiss round of the 500cc world motocross championships.
Van Doorn, who produced a positive result for the banned stimulant amfepramone will be suspended for 18 months while Bartolini will serve a six month ban after testing positive for the anabolic steroid nandrolone. Both bans are retroactive to the Aug. 12 race.
Bartolini was also stripped of the points, prize money and trophy for his fourth place finish and ordered to pay a fine of $3,000 as well as costs for the hearing.
Van Doorn was also fined $1,000 plus costs and had any points or results since his positive test withdrawn.
Both riders have 10 days to lodge an appeal.
When was the last time an AMA rider got caught for steroids?
Are you so out of arguments that you have to bring it down to my crappy english. I want justice, fair play and the cheaters to get caught regardless of where they race. I understand it must be hard to defend cheaters, but that what they are regardless of all your long texts.
I'm sure you're totally okay if China or Russia puts their athletes on supersteroids, makes sure wada doesn't test them come next olympics and then they wipe the floor with the US athletes.
Tell me where the cheating ends, so I know which guy to root for in the nationals. Top 5? top 10? top 15?
BTW Nerd...I know you were in Ernée at the MXON. That's when I became convinced RC was from another planet. Townley rode superbly, was in the shape of his life but still had nothing in stamina for RC even though he had him covered in pure speed.
It was quite similar to when Per Elofsson had to surrender to another skied on steroids in the world championship. The difference is that in other sports they try to catch them at least.
You know I'm right and I'm sure it hurts, but please leave my wife out of this.
The Shop
i honestly think you lost a lot of what was said in translation. tone and context are hard enough to convey via written words. throw in a language barrier and it makes it that much harder to properly articulate an argument so that the person on the other end can properly understand what one is saying and possibly get my point across accurately.
you made the simple statement that "all of your arguments are shit". no specifics. no reasoning. no nothing. it reeked of stubborn ignorance. so please dont accuse me of being out of arguments. ive been very patient with everyone here and said the same thing over and over again in several different ways so that most anyone could understand where i was coming from. if you have a problem with anything that myself, or nerd, or anyone else in here have said, please tell us why. because i guarantee that you opinion stems from not the facts, but a lack of perspective. which is clearly evident by the high regard you hold your european hero's.
lets be real here. its not in luongo's best interest to bust any of his top guys. he's barely keeping them from jumping the pond as it is.
this isnt a matter of "americans are cheaters by nature and europeans arent". the TDF is made up of mostly europeans and they all use. F1 is as european as it gets and they are all cheaters in one fashion or the other. competition is competition. it knows no national/regional boundaries.
you want to know where the cheating ends? first define cheating. cause as far as i know, the shit people are doing isnt tested for nor banned (please someone correct me if im wrong). those who arent "cheating" arent being honest with themselves about winning championships imo. and they certainly arent near the sharp end of the grid. and if someone is "clean" (whatever that means) and they are at the top, chances are their bike isnt legal by the letter of the law (nor are they able to make it thru the entire season injury free cause they have to ride over their heads just to contend). i know there is severe cheating that is going on with the bikes, but it isnt enforced so is it really cheating? give johnny privateer a factory bike with worx suspension and traction control and he'd still be struggling to make the main. the guys who are at the top are competing solely with themselves, and it aint predominantly cause of their equipment or their possible "illegal" training methods.
this is motorsport, cheating is a integral part of the game. always has, and always will. we really shouldnt romanticize "fair play" like we do. its just not an accurate depiction of how things really operate or what we truly ask of our athletes.
root for the guy you can identify with and/or the guy that entertains you. and just be happy with that. dont hold him to any higher standard than you hold yourself and you'll never be heartbroken. if u cannot relate to the uber competitive machines like dungey and the likes, than they arent the guys for you. maybe JLaw is more your type. or maybe a good kid like jimmy albertson, nice guy, very talented, funny, 100% "clean" on and off the track. i dont know what youre like and what entertains you so i cannot really say who you should root for specifically. but i hardly think that their training methods and sacrifices made for the sport should be held against a rider and this certainly is NOT a AMA vs FIM thing.
Mx is dangerous as it is, so why not go ahead and let them do all PED's they like on both sides of the pond. On the other hand I feel kind of sorry for RC. His body survived his racing career, but what has all the PED's done to his internal organs?
You are having a discussion based on values and rules in the US. To a european you're actually confessing you're guilty to all sorts of stuff. As it is top europeans and tom ama riders don't race each other regularly. When a european rider moves to the US I'm sure he modifies his programme with PED's that would make him a cheater in his native country. Since AMA has no laws against PED's it becomes cheating when they race people who train and race with different rules.
In most sports USbased athelets compete under the same rules as the rest of the world. The bottom line is that it's stupid and silly to divide a small sport into two series with different rules. It's only in the interest of the "insiders" and pretend to be journalists. I think most fans can handle the truth, and want to see the best in the world race each other with fair rules.
I know european riders are based in Belgium surrounden by cyclists and visits the same doctors etc. They don't pay their trainers 1 million dollar a year though, which tells you something about the level of cheating here/there.
does he test the blood?
and if he did, do you really think he would bust a top guy that he's already struggling to keep from jumping ship? i say, no way he'd ever bust a golden goose like roczen or cairoli (they are just examples of goose's, please dont read into the fact that i used their names).
or maybe you are right, all euro's are legal. and some of the top guys dont come over because they dont want to compete with these stakes. fair enough. i guess there is a slight chance of that. the mxdn results of the last 10 years sure do show evidence of this disparity. if weve given mccread some legitimate ammo, so be it. but until luongo starts legitimately testing, mccread will be shooting blanks.
i dont know if some of you are aware or not, but lance armstrong has failed tests before. large donations from his charities to the testing org's prevented his name from being tarnished. my point is, politics are politics. and europe isnt immune to them. certainly not luongo.
the rest of your post is intelligent. and youve actually legitimately found a way to bring the FIM vs AMA debate into this discussion. well played sir. before we know it somehow 2t's vs 4's will be involved as well as the merits of the leatt brace. maybe this thread has 10 more pages in it. i hope not.
go crazy with this stuff
It's not up to them to apply the rules to this sport. That rests with the FIM & AMA to ensure riders are clean.
You are defending a system that is totally different. You can't fool me to belive that the difference is down to exactly how they conduct the tests in different sports.
Let's say the guys doing PED's in tour de france, Balco Lab etc is the leading duo and the guys chasing them is the best PED hunters. If the PED hunters in european MX isn't up to the standard of those chasing lance Armstrong, it still doesn't put us on the same level as a country where there are no rules.
Since we are eager to discuss weight limits, sound levels and fuel regulations in our benchracing I think we shall include this as well. just admit that we are comparing apples and oranges every year at mxdn. The same guys would win on either side of the pond with or without PED's. They are the most talented, are working the hardest etc. What if all euro riders were allowed to use anabolic steroids and not the ama riders? would the result be the same?
I'm a fan, I'm curious, aren't you?
If you were to put the top 20 mx riders in the world through nfl combine type tests the results wouldn't be very good at all. Not that they aren't very well conditioned, but getting 20 plus reps with 225 really has no merit on a dirtbike.
I guess what I'm saying is you wouldn't see guys testing positive for typical strength building drugs, the various forms of testosterone, and other product's like it.
So, no, I don't "know you're right".
And the reason I asked when you stopped beating your wife is that's the same thing you're doing here: Presuming things you don't know to be true, and asking questions that by answering them would admit guilt.
I was simply returning your way of thinking back to you.
The FIM tested all of Team USA in France. They were clean. What does this tell you?
Pit Row
But, alot of my friends in highschool were heavy drug users and i've been around enough people on X to know they were in no shape to go 30 +2.
X has amphetamines in it, but it isn't the sole chemical in the drug.
Amphetamine itself would be a PED, such as an adderall. but i used to ride on adderall and i dont think it made me a better rider, it just helped me get awake in the morning but i still rode a TON on it!
honestly..adderall just made cleaning the bike afterwards more fun because i'd make sure the fucking thing was clean enough to eat off of.
This is another misconception about PEDs. They don't make athletes lazy. They make athletes work WAY MORE than they otherwise could.
So, really, all it does is level the playing field for people who have ADD. And it's perfectly legal in all IOC-regulated sports as long as you have a prescription.
In other words, it's not against the rules.
But what if somebody that doesn't have ADD was found using it, then what?
But if someone was caught, and they didn't have a prescription, obviously it would be considered cheating. Someone who doesn't have ADD, taking Adderall, would have some pretty intense physical effects that people with ADD don't really get.
this isnt a matter of the euro's having better morals. if they wanted to skirt the rules, they could, and common sense would say they do.
my question for you, since you want to see a sport/system without PED's is why? what is your gripe with them? and where do you draw the line as to what PED's are ok with you and what are a problem?
if you want to see mx racing without (results altering) PED use and legal bikes.....just go watch the experts/pros at a amateur local race. you'll see some good battles. but if you want to see the best of the best, the hyper-competitive, ur always gonna have to take the good with the ugly. im not defending this system as much as i simply accept it for what it is. swimming upstream gets you nowhere.
I will go out on a limb and say that the tests conducted maybe was done just to please the audience. The real fans of the sport can't handle the truth unlike journalists, insiders and promotors.
Either that or the riders that usually use illegal substances had found a way to get their levels down in time for MXDN. I think a trainer/doctor that's paid a fortune can actually make that happen, and the effect of being able to train harder their whole careers due to PED's were still there. Isn't that what it's all about everywhere else in the world where they try to avoid being caught as they do have rules. What does this tell you?
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