Outdoors...who is in and who is out?

Aceofspades wrote:

You'd think some of these perpetual 12th place heroes would want to race outdoors to maybe increase their worth to their sponsors. The real racing is...

You'd think some of these perpetual 12th place heroes would want to race outdoors to maybe increase their worth to their sponsors. The real racing is done outdoors, but too many of the top American riders run away from it like it's the boogeyman. Meanwhile, the mxgp guys continue to wax our fucking assess at mxdn, while our guys claim they're the "best riders in the world" lol. Now the Europeans are getting way better at sx to boot.

zehn wrote:

Millsaps out
Rumor is Reed might ride for RMC KTM but I'll believe it when I see it

Aceofspades wrote:

You'd think some of these perpetual 12th place heroes would want to race outdoors to maybe increase their worth to their sponsors. The real racing is...

You'd think some of these perpetual 12th place heroes would want to race outdoors to maybe increase their worth to their sponsors. The real racing is done outdoors, but too many of the top American riders run away from it like it's the boogeyman. Meanwhile, the mxgp guys continue to wax our fucking assess at mxdn, while our guys claim they're the "best riders in the world" lol. Now the Europeans are getting way better at sx to boot.

DavetheVintageGuy wrote:

You would think that, but let's say you live in the dead center of the country, say Oklahoma City. If you left OKC and traveled to...

You would think that, but let's say you live in the dead center of the country, say Oklahoma City. If you left OKC and traveled to all 12 nationals without going back home during the series, you would drive 13,698 miles if you just went from track to track. Realistically, you're probably looking at 20,000+ since the series takes a couple of breaks.

Let's say that you are driving a van that gets 15 mpg. You'll need 1333 gallons of dead dinos. That's about 3K in fuel costs. Add in food and lodging, bike costs, entry fees, repair costs, gear, and other expenses and it's easy to see how a summer of racing could cost you a cool 40K. Easily.

I can't find the exact purse payout, but DC said back in 2013 that a 5-7 paid a rider $1250 in the 450 class. That's probably a 6th overall. So if I extrapolate that out over 12 races that cost me 40K, I'd only be short 25K from breaking even. A 12th place guy doesn't have a chance unless they are on a team picking up their expenses. I'm amazed that so many riders try to follow the entire series.

To compare to NASCAR, the last place finisher at Daytona this year was expected to earn approximately $160,000. Granted we are not NASCAR in terms of popularity, TV contract, or title sponsorship level, but still....

It's truly a sad state for the highest level of our sport.

Aceofspades wrote:

You'd think some of these perpetual 12th place heroes would want to race outdoors to maybe increase their worth to their sponsors. The real racing is...

You'd think some of these perpetual 12th place heroes would want to race outdoors to maybe increase their worth to their sponsors. The real racing is done outdoors, but too many of the top American riders run away from it like it's the boogeyman. Meanwhile, the mxgp guys continue to wax our fucking assess at mxdn, while our guys claim they're the "best riders in the world" lol. Now the Europeans are getting way better at sx to boot.

Jrewing wrote:

I just hope Junkyard is in for Southwick.

DavetheVintageGuy wrote:

You would think that, but let's say you live in the dead center of the country, say Oklahoma City. If you left OKC and traveled to...

You would think that, but let's say you live in the dead center of the country, say Oklahoma City. If you left OKC and traveled to all 12 nationals without going back home during the series, you would drive 13,698 miles if you just went from track to track. Realistically, you're probably looking at 20,000+ since the series takes a couple of breaks.

Let's say that you are driving a van that gets 15 mpg. You'll need 1333 gallons of dead dinos. That's about 3K in fuel costs. Add in food and lodging, bike costs, entry fees, repair costs, gear, and other expenses and it's easy to see how a summer of racing could cost you a cool 40K. Easily.

I can't find the exact purse payout, but DC said back in 2013 that a 5-7 paid a rider $1250 in the 450 class. That's probably a 6th overall. So if I extrapolate that out over 12 races that cost me 40K, I'd only be short 25K from breaking even. A 12th place guy doesn't have a chance unless they are on a team picking up their expenses. I'm amazed that so many riders try to follow the entire series.

To compare to NASCAR, the last place finisher at Daytona this year was expected to earn approximately $160,000. Granted we are not NASCAR in terms of popularity, TV contract, or title sponsorship level, but still....

It's truly a sad state for the highest level of our sport.

tprice07 wrote:

Roczen
Dungey
Canard
Reed
Millsaps
Brayton
Alessi (Canada)
Seely?
Weimer?

DavetheVintageGuy wrote:

You would think that, but let's say you live in the dead center of the country, say Oklahoma City. If you left OKC and traveled to...

You would think that, but let's say you live in the dead center of the country, say Oklahoma City. If you left OKC and traveled to all 12 nationals without going back home during the series, you would drive 13,698 miles if you just went from track to track. Realistically, you're probably looking at 20,000+ since the series takes a couple of breaks.

Let's say that you are driving a van that gets 15 mpg. You'll need 1333 gallons of dead dinos. That's about 3K in fuel costs. Add in food and lodging, bike costs, entry fees, repair costs, gear, and other expenses and it's easy to see how a summer of racing could cost you a cool 40K. Easily.

I can't find the exact purse payout, but DC said back in 2013 that a 5-7 paid a rider $1250 in the 450 class. That's probably a 6th overall. So if I extrapolate that out over 12 races that cost me 40K, I'd only be short 25K from breaking even. A 12th place guy doesn't have a chance unless they are on a team picking up their expenses. I'm amazed that so many riders try to follow the entire series.

To compare to NASCAR, the last place finisher at Daytona this year was expected to earn approximately $160,000. Granted we are not NASCAR in terms of popularity, TV contract, or title sponsorship level, but still....

It's truly a sad state for the highest level of our sport.

8686 wrote:

Ok. To be fair, this needs to be pointed out: The payout for Daytona is higher than the other races. Last place at the other races...

Ok. To be fair, this needs to be pointed out:

The payout for Daytona is higher than the other races. Last place at the other races does not pay that well.

Secondly, most don't realize what it costs to get a car on the track at the highest level in Nascar. Talk about blowing your mind. The cost is staggering.

Compare that to motocross, where Roczen or Tomac could probably go top ten or better on a bone stock dirt bike.

F.B wrote:

Peick has been back on the bike for a few weeks.

zehn wrote:

Millsaps out
Rumor is Reed might ride for RMC KTM but I'll believe it when I see it

DavetheVintageGuy wrote:

I agree with all of that. Daytona was just an example that I could find quickly on Google last night. And that was from the days...

I agree with all of that. Daytona was just an example that I could find quickly on Google last night. And that was from the days of qualify and park if you were an independent in the back of the field so you could collect the bucks to pay for other races. Believe me, I am aware of the budgets that auto racing teams have. However, even at the lower levels of auto racing, the payout for making the show is much better even with lower attendance figures than our indoor or outdoor series.

How about a regional ARCA race payout. The Snowball Derby in Pensacola, FL. It's been running now for almost 50 years. Winning paid $22,500, 19th-37th paid $1,500. That doesn't count the payout for the qualifying races or any contingency money. Attendance at that race is approximately 10,000 because that's all Five Flags Speedway will hold.

However, I also agree that the entry cost to our sport is much, much lower. At least for the 450 class, we can buy competitive bikes off the showroom floor. Even if they don't have factory ECU's. To be competitive, you need to train like the world class athlete you will need to be in order to be competitive. That is not without cost.

It better be much lower, because finishing in the lower half of the top 20 costs anyone that doesn't have a contract with a factory out of their pocket to compete. God help those who finish 30-40. It doesn't pay to be one of the "fillers".

The business model in this sport is very broken from the rider's side. Too much dependence on the manufacturers and energy drink sponsors and not enough marketing to diverse sponsors. Sounds like a broken record, but we don't seem to be able to learn our lessons from the past. We continue to sell the sport as entertainment, but we don't pay the entertainers.

zehn wrote:

Millsaps out
Rumor is Reed might ride for RMC KTM but I'll believe it when I see it

zehn wrote:

Millsaps out
Rumor is Reed might ride for RMC KTM but I'll believe it when I see it

Sully wrote:

Overlooking Steve's photo (That's all folks!), there's no way that a rider as picky about setup as Reed hops on a bike he's never ridden and...

Overlooking Steve's photo (That's all folks!), there's no way that a rider as picky about setup as Reed hops on a bike he's never ridden and goes racing on 2 weeks notice.

Jrewing wrote:

I just hope Junkyard is in for Southwick.

APerry151 wrote:

I think he's finally done embarrassing the kids. The Junkyard Pup will be out there though, trying to qualify two years in a row!

MotoMatt_928 wrote:

Roczen is questionable.....

DavetheVintageGuy wrote:

I agree with all of that. Daytona was just an example that I could find quickly on Google last night. And that was from the days...

I agree with all of that. Daytona was just an example that I could find quickly on Google last night. And that was from the days of qualify and park if you were an independent in the back of the field so you could collect the bucks to pay for other races. Believe me, I am aware of the budgets that auto racing teams have. However, even at the lower levels of auto racing, the payout for making the show is much better even with lower attendance figures than our indoor or outdoor series.

How about a regional ARCA race payout. The Snowball Derby in Pensacola, FL. It's been running now for almost 50 years. Winning paid $22,500, 19th-37th paid $1,500. That doesn't count the payout for the qualifying races or any contingency money. Attendance at that race is approximately 10,000 because that's all Five Flags Speedway will hold.

However, I also agree that the entry cost to our sport is much, much lower. At least for the 450 class, we can buy competitive bikes off the showroom floor. Even if they don't have factory ECU's. To be competitive, you need to train like the world class athlete you will need to be in order to be competitive. That is not without cost.

It better be much lower, because finishing in the lower half of the top 20 costs anyone that doesn't have a contract with a factory out of their pocket to compete. God help those who finish 30-40. It doesn't pay to be one of the "fillers".

The business model in this sport is very broken from the rider's side. Too much dependence on the manufacturers and energy drink sponsors and not enough marketing to diverse sponsors. Sounds like a broken record, but we don't seem to be able to learn our lessons from the past. We continue to sell the sport as entertainment, but we don't pay the entertainers.

dcg141 wrote:

You have point there with ARCA. Is that race even televised? I would love to see the business numbers on both sides.

GuyB wrote:

[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/05/10/194025/s1200_050717vegasracing1009.jpg[/img]

GuyB wrote:

[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/05/10/194025/s1200_050717vegasracing1009.jpg[/img]

APerry151 wrote:

Is this your way of "squashing" the Reed to RMC KTM/outdoors rumors?