Old model bikes beating new in SX??

Underground
So there's a good chance that Mookie will be riding his old 16 CRF at A1 and possibly beyond, and he's looking good and carrying some form and determination. That raises the question of an older model (or in this case the previous generation design) racing against this brand new gen CRF450, and how he will go? Would the new model make him faster? Definitely his former team back up and maintenance/R&D regime would help. How will it look for Honda if he is beating all the MCR guys?

Are there other teams that are using older design bikes mocked up as a new model that people know of? Riders on Suzuki have been using different year frames I suppose, but is that the same? When Reed was a Kawasaki he wanted to use different year frame but was supposedly denied. Did he learn this at other teams he had ridden on previously and if so what was the make up?



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Kx125rider 12/20/2016 2:34pm
12/20/2016 2:34pm Edited Date/Time 12/20/2016 2:35pm
All the factory bikes are so close that I doubt there would be much of a difference, the new bike wouldn't make him faster. Malcolm would be at a disadvantage because hes not on a factory bike, not because his bike is older.
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early 12/20/2016 2:39pm
12/20/2016 2:39pm
Only Brayton will be on the 17. Alessi and Friese will be on 16s (or 15s?)
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BobPA 12/20/2016 2:41pm
12/20/2016 2:41pm
Underground wrote:
So there's a good chance that Mookie will be riding his old 16 CRF at A1 and possibly beyond, and he's looking good and carrying some...
So there's a good chance that Mookie will be riding his old 16 CRF at A1 and possibly beyond, and he's looking good and carrying some form and determination. That raises the question of an older model (or in this case the previous generation design) racing against this brand new gen CRF450, and how he will go? Would the new model make him faster? Definitely his former team back up and maintenance/R&D regime would help. How will it look for Honda if he is beating all the MCR guys?

Are there other teams that are using older design bikes mocked up as a new model that people know of? Riders on Suzuki have been using different year frames I suppose, but is that the same? When Reed was a Kawasaki he wanted to use different year frame but was supposedly denied. Did he learn this at other teams he had ridden on previously and if so what was the make up?



The only rider on the current chassis at MCR is Brayton.

How can you tell how fast and determined someone is from a 15 second clip at their home track? Nothing against Malcom but he was not to determined to go racing this summer...and it but him right in the ass.
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MxKing809 12/20/2016 2:42pm
12/20/2016 2:42pm
I bet Roczen would still win on an 09 CRF

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C-Rock
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C-Rock 12/20/2016 2:45pm
12/20/2016 2:45pm
Aren't all Zook's 2008 models?
Laughing
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kkawboy14 12/20/2016 2:46pm
12/20/2016 2:46pm
C-Rock wrote:
Aren't all Zook's 2008 models?
Laughing
You might be right.....no wonder Roczen spanked everyone on that brand new Honda Smile
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Dtat720 12/20/2016 2:49pm
12/20/2016 2:49pm
C-Rock wrote:
Aren't all Zook's 2008 models?
Laughing
Pretty much answers the op's question.. Roczen smoked the field in the outdoors on an "8 year old" bike by that logic..
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Phillip_Lamb 12/20/2016 3:17pm
12/20/2016 3:17pm
The suzuki's are basically fine tuned 2008 models and Kroc did just fine
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WeiserGuy 12/20/2016 4:03pm
12/20/2016 4:03pm
Pretty common knowledge, but McGrath ran a 93 frame until 96.
Underground 12/20/2016 4:12pm
12/20/2016 4:12pm
WeiserGuy wrote:
Pretty common knowledge, but McGrath ran a 93 frame until 96.
Yeah it is common knowledge now, but not back then. I was interested on hearing from some old team mechanics or whatever on here about some of the later machines and what they did to get the handling how they wanted it.
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DTHA70 12/20/2016 4:35pm
12/20/2016 4:35pm
Underground wrote:
So there's a good chance that Mookie will be riding his old 16 CRF at A1 and possibly beyond, and he's looking good and carrying some...
So there's a good chance that Mookie will be riding his old 16 CRF at A1 and possibly beyond, and he's looking good and carrying some form and determination. That raises the question of an older model (or in this case the previous generation design) racing against this brand new gen CRF450, and how he will go? Would the new model make him faster? Definitely his former team back up and maintenance/R&D regime would help. How will it look for Honda if he is beating all the MCR guys?

Are there other teams that are using older design bikes mocked up as a new model that people know of? Riders on Suzuki have been using different year frames I suppose, but is that the same? When Reed was a Kawasaki he wanted to use different year frame but was supposedly denied. Did he learn this at other teams he had ridden on previously and if so what was the make up?



considering brayton is gonna be the only guy on a 2017 bike, it wont look bad. Mookie isn't gonna be running with KROC, might run near seely and brayton.
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kiwifan 12/20/2016 4:46pm
12/20/2016 4:46pm Edited Date/Time 12/20/2016 5:19pm
on the other side of the spectrum... KTM riders race what is basically a pre-18 model ...beating a '18 model on a '15/'16 bike is more interesting thing to ponder?
Underground 12/20/2016 4:52pm
12/20/2016 4:52pm
Underground wrote:
So there's a good chance that Mookie will be riding his old 16 CRF at A1 and possibly beyond, and he's looking good and carrying some...
So there's a good chance that Mookie will be riding his old 16 CRF at A1 and possibly beyond, and he's looking good and carrying some form and determination. That raises the question of an older model (or in this case the previous generation design) racing against this brand new gen CRF450, and how he will go? Would the new model make him faster? Definitely his former team back up and maintenance/R&D regime would help. How will it look for Honda if he is beating all the MCR guys?

Are there other teams that are using older design bikes mocked up as a new model that people know of? Riders on Suzuki have been using different year frames I suppose, but is that the same? When Reed was a Kawasaki he wanted to use different year frame but was supposedly denied. Did he learn this at other teams he had ridden on previously and if so what was the make up?



DTHA70 wrote:
considering brayton is gonna be the only guy on a 2017 bike, it wont look bad. Mookie isn't gonna be running with KROC, might run near...
considering brayton is gonna be the only guy on a 2017 bike, it wont look bad. Mookie isn't gonna be running with KROC, might run near seely and brayton.
The others will be on 17's soon enough you'll see. Got a feeling so too will Malcolm. Especially if he's running inside the ten.
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ML512 12/20/2016 4:58pm
12/20/2016 4:58pm Edited Date/Time 12/20/2016 4:59pm
Underground wrote:
The others will be on 17's soon enough you'll see. Got a feeling so too will Malcolm. Especially if he's running inside the ten.
Speaking to Tony at their team intro, Vince and Mike will be on their 15s for the whole Supercross season. I don't see them switching until the end of the year as they develop the bikes for the 2018 season.
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MB109 12/20/2016 5:00pm
12/20/2016 5:00pm
The "stacked field" saying is old AND I'm a Mookie fan but.. do you guys see him mixing it up for an entire main against Roczen, Tomac, Dungey, Anderson, Musquin, Seely, Reed, etc...?

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Underground 12/20/2016 8:07pm
12/20/2016 8:07pm
Underground wrote:
The others will be on 17's soon enough you'll see. Got a feeling so too will Malcolm. Especially if he's running inside the ten.
ML512 wrote:
Speaking to Tony at their team intro, Vince and Mike will be on their 15s for the whole Supercross season. I don't see them switching until...
Speaking to Tony at their team intro, Vince and Mike will be on their 15s for the whole Supercross season. I don't see them switching until the end of the year as they develop the bikes for the 2018 season.
I haven't read much on the MCR/Honda deal due to lack of interest, but is Brayton on a HRC supplied/developed and maintained bike? Unless they picked up or were given a heap of 15-16 works parts and replacement parts, I can't see the logic in running two development programs the whole year. 3 if counting 250's. I do know they do things different over there but.
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Braz 12/20/2016 11:25pm
12/20/2016 11:25pm
Why are Mike and Vince running 15's instead of 16's?
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ML512 12/20/2016 11:27pm
12/20/2016 11:27pm
Braz wrote:
Why are Mike and Vince running 15's instead of 16's?
15 to 16 is almost the same bike, outside of the few smallest pieces which don't really affect a pro level team. They got a better deal buying leftover 15s for this season...
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ML512 12/20/2016 11:28pm
12/20/2016 11:28pm
Underground wrote:
I haven't read much on the MCR/Honda deal due to lack of interest, but is Brayton on a HRC supplied/developed and maintained bike? Unless they picked...
I haven't read much on the MCR/Honda deal due to lack of interest, but is Brayton on a HRC supplied/developed and maintained bike? Unless they picked up or were given a heap of 15-16 works parts and replacement parts, I can't see the logic in running two development programs the whole year. 3 if counting 250's. I do know they do things different over there but.
Honda supplied MCR with six 2017 CRF450Rs for Brayton and are supplying him with Showa works suspension, but no chassis, electronic or engine help. MCR is taking care of all that.
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HenryA 12/21/2016 12:55am
12/21/2016 12:55am
Not a mockup, but there were a few guys running the crf450 12 in 2013.


...wasn't Steve Dixons team running 2013 Yamahas in the 2014 MX2 class?
theinternetkid 12/21/2016 1:49am
12/21/2016 1:49am
ML512 wrote:
Honda supplied MCR with six 2017 CRF450Rs for Brayton and are supplying him with Showa works suspension, but no chassis, electronic or engine help. MCR is...
Honda supplied MCR with six 2017 CRF450Rs for Brayton and are supplying him with Showa works suspension, but no chassis, electronic or engine help. MCR is taking care of all that.
Sounds like a good deal for Brayton. Is this SX only?
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mx836 12/21/2016 6:56am
12/21/2016 6:56am
Alessi ran the '12 frame (I think) on his RMZ for a few years because he preferred it over the newer frames.
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GuyB 12/21/2016 7:19am
12/21/2016 7:19am
nascarnate326 wrote:
I so want to see this. Had an 09. Was a pig.
So your bike and Ken Roczen's Suzukis were exactly alike?
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GuyB 12/21/2016 7:20am
12/21/2016 7:20am
ML512 wrote:
Honda supplied MCR with six 2017 CRF450Rs for Brayton and are supplying him with Showa works suspension, but no chassis, electronic or engine help. MCR is...
Honda supplied MCR with six 2017 CRF450Rs for Brayton and are supplying him with Showa works suspension, but no chassis, electronic or engine help. MCR is taking care of all that.
I believe XPR does the engine work.
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layinbody31 12/21/2016 7:25am
12/21/2016 7:25am
Switching frames between years of 450s may be fine, but if you try to put a 250 engine in a 450 frame the AMA will make you declare yourself a manufacturer and homologate the model (which requires building 400 of them)
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tek14 12/21/2016 7:26am
12/21/2016 7:26am
Tony Cairoli did run first gen sx350f frame all years he was on that one(4 years?) even KTM made some
mods to sale and other team bikes.
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ToolMaker 12/21/2016 8:17am
12/21/2016 8:17am
McGrath ran the old frame till they couldn't hide it with plastics also I believe.
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