Old Vs. New Unadilla

pmcc
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Lisburn GB
8/15/2011 3:37pm
Have to say the track this year was ruined by all the ruts! Why does every track in america have to have such deep ruts now a days... all it does is ruin the racing!

The track in places was narrowed down to only a few feet of useable ground as the rest of it was too deep and rutted. Made it hard to pass and the racing boring
moto282
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8/15/2011 3:52pm Edited Date/Time 8/15/2011 3:53pm
I really liked the track last weekend... but I'm 29 and got into MX in 1993, so I wasn't around for the 79 track. There's so many cool obstacles/sections I can't even list them all. The sky shot is one of my favorite jumps in MX professional racing. I especially like Unadilla because it seems like one of the few tracks where most passes are made on the straightaways just holding it wide open a little longer than the other guy.

The nationals this year seem especially rough, which I also think is great.
SCIENCE
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8/15/2011 5:18pm
Law 131 wrote:
Hey Science, Did you get to the race yesterday? Thanks for that video. I raced the 500's that day in 79.
Hey Science,

Did you get to the race yesterday?

Thanks for that video.

I raced the 500's that day in 79.
No problem, that video hit last week and is long lost gold. I didn't make it this weekend. Went 4 of the last 6 years, but this year we were in the Fingerlakes a couple weeks ago and couldn't get back up there. Agree with your comments. I do still love the place and yes MX Sports does a great job. We just got spoiled being there in the heyday! BTW I remember you riding back then. Hard to miss the famous VPE jerseys and local heroes! Didn't Fred win a 500 moto that year? I think that was also the year that Moroney was whipping his Fox backed and suspended RM400, one handed (flashing the peace sign) down Gravity Cavity. That picture made its way around back then. Classic!
Law 131
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8/15/2011 5:50pm
SCIENCE wrote:
No problem, that video hit last week and is long lost gold. I didn't make it this weekend. Went 4 of the last 6 years, but...
No problem, that video hit last week and is long lost gold. I didn't make it this weekend. Went 4 of the last 6 years, but this year we were in the Fingerlakes a couple weeks ago and couldn't get back up there. Agree with your comments. I do still love the place and yes MX Sports does a great job. We just got spoiled being there in the heyday! BTW I remember you riding back then. Hard to miss the famous VPE jerseys and local heroes! Didn't Fred win a 500 moto that year? I think that was also the year that Moroney was whipping his Fox backed and suspended RM400, one handed (flashing the peace sign) down Gravity Cavity. That picture made its way around back then. Classic!
The 79 race was a blast.

The track was so natural, we would have to pick blades of grass out of our boot buckles after practice.

I just took a virtual lap, from Saturday, courtesy of Will Haun and GoPro. The track speed is MUCH faster than 79.
It's rutty like 79 but not as whooped out.

It's the next best thing to being in the race.

Here's the result from the 500 class in 79.

The Shop

8/15/2011 6:27pm
Stickers wrote:
The new double going into the turn before you get to the section where Stewart and Rc hit sucked. It was much better when they went...
The new double going into the turn before you get to the section where Stewart and Rc hit sucked. It was much better when they went all the way up and dropped back in.
Deployer78 wrote:
I agree with you 100% Stickers. I understand that they are actually trying to slow down the speeds on the track by adding jumps and turns...
I agree with you 100% Stickers. I understand that they are actually trying to slow down the speeds on the track by adding jumps and turns, but whoever the track designer is at Dilla has mad some bad decisions. That stupid double that everybody was slamming into the face(before the old Stewart/RC hill turn) was a terrible idea. "Ummm we need to slow the speeds down, lets build a double that everybody cases every lap". Dumb and unsafe. Even the double going up the old Elevator shaft looked like a really hard, un-necessary landing. The new step-up heading towards the start had a crazy buck at the top. I think when it was built they didn't pack in the top of the lip. I love Dilla(especially since Broome-Tioga doesn't have a national anymore) but some of the track changes they are making are not good. There are better/safer ways to slow up track speeds other than slamming into the face of a double.
The reason they were doubling it was because of the gnarly breaking bumps if they cleared it. Several people were clearing it but couldn't get stopped for the turn with the deep breaking bumps....
8/15/2011 9:44pm
My bad the RR Vs. RC battle was in the 125's in 1998. Awesome race for RR.
Thank for posting this!! When was the last time anyone beat RC straight up. You kind of forget how good RR really was...it's too bad he has been plagued by injuries and bad luck throughout most of his career
montesagold
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8/15/2011 9:56pm
Very interesting to read everyones opinions. Im a fan of the new jumps and man made sections, but why can't some of the natural flow be retained for the rest of the track? I prefer the wide turns and all of the line selections of the old track. Why couldn't they make it thebest of both worlds?
T-MAC
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8/15/2011 10:21pm Edited Date/Time 8/15/2011 10:25pm
I have been going for eight years (not as long as some of the dudes who have been going since it's inception) though. In the past years I have like the changes a lot. The big double up the hill after the skyshot is awesome. You have to send that thing to keep momentum up the hill. It also allows for a tunnel to be added in the middle of the track. Both additions make the track more enjoyable for spectators. The corner they cut out into the woods after the appletree corner, where Dungey and Barcia collided in the moto, adds some more excitedment and gets the fans closer to the track over there. The new step-up into the corner where they used to fly up the hill into the amateur parking lot was cool, but took up prime parking for U2.The sport is evolving and demands are different. Dilla is still a super gnarly track, just ask Davalos.
SCIENCE
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8/16/2011 9:01am
SCIENCE wrote:
No problem, that video hit last week and is long lost gold. I didn't make it this weekend. Went 4 of the last 6 years, but...
No problem, that video hit last week and is long lost gold. I didn't make it this weekend. Went 4 of the last 6 years, but this year we were in the Fingerlakes a couple weeks ago and couldn't get back up there. Agree with your comments. I do still love the place and yes MX Sports does a great job. We just got spoiled being there in the heyday! BTW I remember you riding back then. Hard to miss the famous VPE jerseys and local heroes! Didn't Fred win a 500 moto that year? I think that was also the year that Moroney was whipping his Fox backed and suspended RM400, one handed (flashing the peace sign) down Gravity Cavity. That picture made its way around back then. Classic!
Law 131 wrote:
The 79 race was a blast. The track was so natural, we would have to pick blades of grass out of our boot buckles after practice...
The 79 race was a blast.

The track was so natural, we would have to pick blades of grass out of our boot buckles after practice.

I just took a virtual lap, from Saturday, courtesy of Will Haun and GoPro. The track speed is MUCH faster than 79.
It's rutty like 79 but not as whooped out.

It's the next best thing to being in the race.

Here's the result from the 500 class in 79.

Thanks for sharing the results. The names in the top 10 really are a microcosm of the local districts back then. I guess as the Support class was intended. Good stuff.
`ol Ger
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8/16/2011 9:05am
I like the new Unadilla. I think RC would like it too (maybe).
TannerMxer
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8/16/2011 11:03am
Does anyone have wide angle or aerial photos to really see the new changes? I am really curious to see what all they did to the track.
wildbill
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8/22/2011 8:26pm
peelout wrote:
i thought the track looked Rad this year.

RV made that track his bitch!
the track and everyone else.

RV2 #1 at the des nations.
Paul333
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8/11/2017 7:47am Edited Date/Time 8/11/2017 5:55pm
I hate to dig up an old thread but its the perfect place to ask this question; when did the "Elevator Shaft" become so tame? I have not made it up to Unadilla in ten or more years but as a kid I remember it being the most challenging part of the track. I never got to ride Unadilla because back then it was Pro only. The Elevator Shaft was essentially a damn near 100ft vertical drop, left hand turn at the very bottom w/virtually zero room to slow down, and then right back up a grassy 100ft vertical climb. I was amazed watching the pro's drop into it as a kid. It was so steep up & down that you could not walk down it without being extremely careful and zigzagging like a skier. Only the Hill People drunks ever really tried and the vast majority slipped/tripped and fell to the bottom. It was funny to watch. People make a big deal out of Gravity Cavity & Sky Shot today but the old Elevator Shaft was 100% more fun to watch.

Today it looks like nothing more than a normal Central NY hill up or down.

motomike137
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8/11/2017 8:39am
Paul333 wrote:
I hate to dig up an old thread but its the perfect place to ask this question; when did the "Elevator Shaft" become so tame? I...
I hate to dig up an old thread but its the perfect place to ask this question; when did the "Elevator Shaft" become so tame? I have not made it up to Unadilla in ten or more years but as a kid I remember it being the most challenging part of the track. I never got to ride Unadilla because back then it was Pro only. The Elevator Shaft was essentially a damn near 100ft vertical drop, left hand turn at the very bottom w/virtually zero room to slow down, and then right back up a grassy 100ft vertical climb. I was amazed watching the pro's drop into it as a kid. It was so steep up & down that you could not walk down it without being extremely careful and zigzagging like a skier. Only the Hill People drunks ever really tried and the vast majority slipped/tripped and fell to the bottom. It was funny to watch. People make a big deal out of Gravity Cavity & Sky Shot today but the old Elevator Shaft was 100% more fun to watch.

Today it looks like nothing more than a normal Central NY hill up or down.

Television makes it look much tamer than it is. I don't think it has changed from "back in the day".
cdm806
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8/11/2017 9:18am
Paul333 wrote:
I hate to dig up an old thread but its the perfect place to ask this question; when did the "Elevator Shaft" become so tame? I...
I hate to dig up an old thread but its the perfect place to ask this question; when did the "Elevator Shaft" become so tame? I have not made it up to Unadilla in ten or more years but as a kid I remember it being the most challenging part of the track. I never got to ride Unadilla because back then it was Pro only. The Elevator Shaft was essentially a damn near 100ft vertical drop, left hand turn at the very bottom w/virtually zero room to slow down, and then right back up a grassy 100ft vertical climb. I was amazed watching the pro's drop into it as a kid. It was so steep up & down that you could not walk down it without being extremely careful and zigzagging like a skier. Only the Hill People drunks ever really tried and the vast majority slipped/tripped and fell to the bottom. It was funny to watch. People make a big deal out of Gravity Cavity & Sky Shot today but the old Elevator Shaft was 100% more fun to watch.

Today it looks like nothing more than a normal Central NY hill up or down.

The "Elevator Shaft"?, that must be a TV thing. It is, was, and always will be Screw-U. It's still as step and nasty as it's ever been, it's just easier to do on today's bikes and when the track isn't 3 feet tall grass at the start of practice.
BobPA
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8/11/2017 9:23am
Paul333 wrote:
I hate to dig up an old thread but its the perfect place to ask this question; when did the "Elevator Shaft" become so tame? I...
I hate to dig up an old thread but its the perfect place to ask this question; when did the "Elevator Shaft" become so tame? I have not made it up to Unadilla in ten or more years but as a kid I remember it being the most challenging part of the track. I never got to ride Unadilla because back then it was Pro only. The Elevator Shaft was essentially a damn near 100ft vertical drop, left hand turn at the very bottom w/virtually zero room to slow down, and then right back up a grassy 100ft vertical climb. I was amazed watching the pro's drop into it as a kid. It was so steep up & down that you could not walk down it without being extremely careful and zigzagging like a skier. Only the Hill People drunks ever really tried and the vast majority slipped/tripped and fell to the bottom. It was funny to watch. People make a big deal out of Gravity Cavity & Sky Shot today but the old Elevator Shaft was 100% more fun to watch.

Today it looks like nothing more than a normal Central NY hill up or down.

cdm806 wrote:
The "Elevator Shaft"?, that must be a TV thing. It is, was, and always will be Screw-U. It's still as step and nasty as it's ever...
The "Elevator Shaft"?, that must be a TV thing. It is, was, and always will be Screw-U. It's still as step and nasty as it's ever been, it's just easier to do on today's bikes and when the track isn't 3 feet tall grass at the start of practice.
I have never ever heard it called the elevator shaft. Like you said "Screw-U" or "The Wall" is what it is. Shit is still steep.
Paul333
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8/11/2017 9:54am Edited Date/Time 8/11/2017 9:55am
cdm806 wrote:
The "Elevator Shaft"?, that must be a TV thing. It is, was, and always will be Screw-U. It's still as step and nasty as it's ever...
The "Elevator Shaft"?, that must be a TV thing. It is, was, and always will be Screw-U. It's still as step and nasty as it's ever been, it's just easier to do on today's bikes and when the track isn't 3 feet tall grass at the start of practice.
Gotcha, I heard it being called the "Elevator Shaft" at the 1981 Trans-USA series race and it stuck with me. I have heard of the "Screw-U" but always used Elevator Shaft myself. Maybe it was the race announcer.

Maybe it was the tall grass that made it look so terrifying at the time.
Steve125
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8/11/2017 11:23am
One of my favorite racing memories is the fact that I got to race that track before they started ripping it so deep creating the rut-fest we have today.
Proud to have had 3ft long grass stuck in my pegs during practice, hitting the same bumps my moto heros hit decades before because the track was only dragged, not groomed back then.
Perfect example of a section that was better back then was the staircase (the area just passed where Bubba landed on Ricky) Seeing guys use different lines using a different rhythm over 30 year old woops was badass.. Having a wide open double there now is a joke by comparison.
Anyway.. gotta go.. I'm heading there in a couple hours.
mx 219
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8/11/2017 11:45am Edited Date/Time 8/11/2017 11:51am
Paul333 wrote:
I hate to dig up an old thread but its the perfect place to ask this question; when did the "Elevator Shaft" become so tame? I...
I hate to dig up an old thread but its the perfect place to ask this question; when did the "Elevator Shaft" become so tame? I have not made it up to Unadilla in ten or more years but as a kid I remember it being the most challenging part of the track. I never got to ride Unadilla because back then it was Pro only. The Elevator Shaft was essentially a damn near 100ft vertical drop, left hand turn at the very bottom w/virtually zero room to slow down, and then right back up a grassy 100ft vertical climb. I was amazed watching the pro's drop into it as a kid. It was so steep up & down that you could not walk down it without being extremely careful and zigzagging like a skier. Only the Hill People drunks ever really tried and the vast majority slipped/tripped and fell to the bottom. It was funny to watch. People make a big deal out of Gravity Cavity & Sky Shot today but the old Elevator Shaft was 100% more fun to watch.

Today it looks like nothing more than a normal Central NY hill up or down.

It has been called the wall from what I recall since about 98 which was the first year I got to go to Unadilla.

It is steep and I haven't been to that side of the track in about 10 years as I have sat near the new table top close to Gravity Cavity and haven't walked the track much, but all the times I went to the wall it it was steep, but anyone that was coordinated could walk up it... Heck, we took an old man from my church that was in his mid 80s wearing baseball spikes and he made it up.
8/11/2017 3:09pm
I'll never understand why , in an age where bikes have unbelievable capabilities, the tracks have been made smoother, and tilled so deep that the racing blows ass.
Paul333
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8/11/2017 3:51pm Edited Date/Time 8/11/2017 5:54pm
mx 219 wrote:
It has been called the wall from what I recall since about 98 which was the first year I got to go to Unadilla. It is...
It has been called the wall from what I recall since about 98 which was the first year I got to go to Unadilla.

It is steep and I haven't been to that side of the track in about 10 years as I have sat near the new table top close to Gravity Cavity and haven't walked the track much, but all the times I went to the wall it it was steep, but anyone that was coordinated could walk up it... Heck, we took an old man from my church that was in his mid 80s wearing baseball spikes and he made it up.
That is not the Screw-U/Wall that I remember. In the early 80's when I started going to Unadilla (USGP, Trans-USA, Nationals Races) no old man was going to walk up or down it - no way. Like I said I only saw a few people accomplish it at all. Mostly teenagers, older than me. It was just too steep, almost hill climb steep, and had 2-3' grass.



RCF
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8/11/2017 4:48pm
I hate there's no more the other side sucks.
motogrady
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8/11/2017 7:17pm


I must be losing it.

When I first made the trip, we snuck into the riders meeting.
Sat between Jimmy Weinert and Torston Hallman till that NY State Trooper noticed the fake pass we made up,
and threatened to lock us up.

At that time, Mid 70s, Screw U was the drop some now call Gravity Cavity.
Thought it was lame to rename it, bending to the political correct.

And what you guys are saying was Screw U, we called the wall.

Anyway, I say after the vet thing just throw a few tons of rye grass, mixed with some fertilizer, and be the one stop that's
kinda natural when the nats come around.

I mean, The Hill across the street ain't coming back, but the grass, they could do that........
Jack mehoff
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8/11/2017 7:31pm
SCIENCE wrote:
No problem, that video hit last week and is long lost gold. I didn't make it this weekend. Went 4 of the last 6 years, but...
No problem, that video hit last week and is long lost gold. I didn't make it this weekend. Went 4 of the last 6 years, but this year we were in the Fingerlakes a couple weeks ago and couldn't get back up there. Agree with your comments. I do still love the place and yes MX Sports does a great job. We just got spoiled being there in the heyday! BTW I remember you riding back then. Hard to miss the famous VPE jerseys and local heroes! Didn't Fred win a 500 moto that year? I think that was also the year that Moroney was whipping his Fox backed and suspended RM400, one handed (flashing the peace sign) down Gravity Cavity. That picture made its way around back then. Classic!
Law 131 wrote:
The 79 race was a blast. The track was so natural, we would have to pick blades of grass out of our boot buckles after practice...
The 79 race was a blast.

The track was so natural, we would have to pick blades of grass out of our boot buckles after practice.

I just took a virtual lap, from Saturday, courtesy of Will Haun and GoPro. The track speed is MUCH faster than 79.
It's rutty like 79 but not as whooped out.

It's the next best thing to being in the race.

Here's the result from the 500 class in 79.

SCIENCE wrote:
Thanks for sharing the results. The names in the top 10 really are a microcosm of the local districts back then. I guess as the Support...
Thanks for sharing the results. The names in the top 10 really are a microcosm of the local districts back then. I guess as the Support class was intended. Good stuff.
NY NJ PA Representing back in the day district 34 district 6 battle back then
gt80rider
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8/11/2017 9:47pm
I'll never understand why , in an age where bikes have unbelievable capabilities, the tracks have been made smoother, and tilled so deep that the racing...
I'll never understand why , in an age where bikes have unbelievable capabilities, the tracks have been made smoother, and tilled so deep that the racing blows ass.
Damn, that is truth....
willie838
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8/12/2017 12:59am
Mod Killer wrote:
chalk me up as another vote for the old 'dilla.
my first time there in 97..... it looked like someone had walked out with stakes and marking tape across that entire valley and just kind of.......figured where the track would be if god himself put it there.

the place felt very surreal because it looked almost entirely untouched by man made efforts to alter the terrain.



it does not feel that way anymore. It's still cool but.....it's doesn't generate the amazement that such a spot existed, where a giant race track was just plopped down naturally.

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