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Newbie Question About Jumping

ktm46

C100

Posts: 3

Joined: 1/23/2012

Location: NJ, USA

1/24/2012 11:22 AM

I have a KTM 250 2 stroke. When I hit bigger jumps -- doubles, triples, even tabletops, the front wants to nosedive. What would cause this? Is it too much de-acceleration on the jump face? I have only been riding mx for a year and admit that I have a tendency to let off the gas on the jump face and sort of coast off of the lip. Common sense tells me that by coasting off I am essentially "falling" of the jump instead of launching off of it. Is my thinking correct?

Thanks for the help.

SoCalMX70

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Posts: 901

Joined: 4/1/2008

Location: Thousand Oaks, CA USA

1/24/2012 11:24 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/24/2012 11:27 AM

Don't chop the throttle on the face of the jump... Don't gas it hard either. Steady throttle is key.

FYI, I haven't been a good jumper in nearly 10 years, but the last time I was it was on a 2-stroke.

Edit: Also depends on the type of face you're hitting to. If there's a kick in the lip you'll need to gas it more. It's just one of those things where practice makes perfect. Nosing down too much = Give it more gas next time. Nose too high = Less gas next time (or tap the rear brake old school style...).

James

TannerMxer

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Posts: 1025

Joined: 1/5/2010

Location: McKinney, TX USA

1/24/2012 11:27 AM

SoCalMX70 wrote: Don't chop the throttle on the face of the jump... Don't gas it hard either. Steady throttle is key.

FYI, I haven't been a good jumper in nearly 10 years, but the last time I was it was on a 2-stroke.

Edit: Also depends on the type of face you're hitting to. If there's a kick in the lip you'll need to gas it more. It's just one of those things where practice makes perfect. Nosing down too much = Give it more gas next time. Nose too high = Less gas next time (or tap the rear brake old school style...).

^^^ this

Don't speed up to a jump and let off on the face. This can cause you to endo. Like SoCal stated above, do not shop the throttle of the face of jumps either. Gain the speed you need and hold the throttle on. If the nose wants to stay high, pull in the clutch and tap the rear break.

Twitter: @Tnn3r


hoppsan

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Posts: 445

Joined: 9/3/2009

Location: Stockholm, SWE

1/24/2012 11:32 AM

Stand up, don't sit.

Track and Trail

C100_donny_schmidt0001

Posts: 1909

Joined: 12/14/2010

Location: Cloquet, MN USA

1/24/2012 11:42 AM

All of the above, and use your body to weight the bike how it's needed. You can use no gas or wide open so long as you weight the bike correctly. Pull back, push down, or stay neutral using the handlebars for leverage. Obviously there are a lot more things you can do but this is good beginner stuff. Be safe!

huck

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Posts: 14866

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Location: Mountain Home, AR USA

1/24/2012 11:45 AM

Pull the front brake in the air. It's spinning too much and causing the front to drop.

The message posted above is most likely my opinion and shouldn't be taken as fact....

DoctorJD

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Location: Somewhere in..., GA USA

1/24/2012 11:51 AM

huck wrote: Pull the front brake in the air. It's spinning too much and causing the front to drop.

Thanks Huck, with four legit responses I was beginning to think I was in some kind of Vital "Bizarro World".

"I mean honestly, up-and-coming riders? I'd just advise them to quit, cuz' they'll never be as good as me." Ronnie Mac

MotoChief

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Posts: 672

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Location: Guantanamo Bay, CUB

1/24/2012 11:52 AM

Just panic Rev the bike. Every one will then know how hard you ride.

"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."
Dante Alighieri

"So Pick a F#@%ing side!"
MotoChief
www.kiteboarding.com

petie11o5

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Posts: 520

Joined: 1/2/2011

Location: Cincinnati, OH USA

1/24/2012 11:52 AM

huck wrote: Pull the front brake in the air. It's spinning too much and causing the front to drop.

That's real nice to tell the kid. Do not pull the front brake in, it will drop your front end even more. Even when you are nose high you should never pull in the front brake it is bad for the bike. The front wheel should always rotate while you are in the air.

MOTOvation

mjskier

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Location: CO, USA

1/24/2012 11:55 AM

huck wrote: Pull the front brake in the air. It's spinning too much and causing the front to drop.

You are pathetic. Should he send you the hospital bill when he augers in?

man who runs in front of bus gets tired. man who runs behind bus gets exhausted

Flatliner

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1/24/2012 11:55 AM

MotoChief wrote: Just panic Rev the bike. Every one will then know how hard you ride.

That's how I corner. Clutch in, WFO throttle.

Old Mate

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Location: Sussex Inlet, AUS

1/24/2012 11:56 AM

Build up to your jumping,go slow towards the jump and when your confident accelerate till the back wheel leaves the jump,stand up,grip with your knees and learn a little forward just like you would to walk up the jump.

MotoChief

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Location: Guantanamo Bay, CUB

1/24/2012 12:08 PM

huck wrote: Pull the front brake in the air. It's spinning too much and causing the front to drop.

petie11o5 wrote: That's real nice to tell the kid. Do not pull the front brake in, it will drop your front end even more. Even when you are nose high you should never pull in the front brake it is bad for the bike. The front wheel should always rotate while you are in the air.

Anyone riding a 250 and jumping "bigger jumps -- doubles, triples, even tabletops" that needs help to understand what to do in the fucking air on a bike that is nose down deserves what he gets if he takes advice from an internet message board. And if he does not understand the basics of bike physics, he has no place even riding that bike, much less jumping "bigger jumps -- doubles, triples, even tabletops"

"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."
Dante Alighieri

"So Pick a F#@%ing side!"
MotoChief
www.kiteboarding.com

Biscuit

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Location: Saltillo, MS USA

1/24/2012 12:09 PM

Practice your corners!

Chicks dig guys who are fast through the corners!

"For the loser now will be later to win"--Robert Zimmerman

Mini Elsinore

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Location: Hb, Oc, CA USA

1/24/2012 12:14 PM

You've gotten some good advice......and some bad.

End of day jumping is really over-rated, it's really all about how you look in the pits. Does your gear match? If so, you're good.

"Show me a guy who is afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat everytime."
--Lou Brock

StatutoryApe

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Posts: 565

Joined: 10/28/2011

Location: Cerritos, CA USA

1/24/2012 12:18 PM

Either your throttle control on the face or your rebound in your suspension i would say, try tinkering with both to figure it out.

zookrider62!

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Location: Plano, TX USA

1/24/2012 12:31 PM

huck wrote: Pull the front brake in the air. It's spinning too much and causing the front to drop.

petie11o5 wrote: That's real nice to tell the kid. Do not pull the front brake in, it will drop your front end even more. Even when you are nose high you should never pull in the front brake it is bad for the bike. The front wheel should always rotate while you are in the air.

how is it bad for the bike?

ktm46

C100

Posts: 3

Joined: 1/23/2012

Location: NJ, USA

1/24/2012 12:33 PM

For those that have helped -- thank you.

Also, I do understand the physics of the bike. If you read my post I had pretty much diagnosed my problem already, I was just trying to confirm what I thought and maybe get a couple helpful bits of advice as well.

huck

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Posts: 14866

Joined: 8/16/2006

Location: Mountain Home, AR USA

1/24/2012 12:43 PM

ktm46 wrote: For those that have helped -- thank you.

Also, I do understand the physics of the bike. If you read my post I had pretty much diagnosed my problem already, I was just trying to confirm what I thought and maybe get a couple helpful bits of advice as well.

You're welcome.


Here's a video that RC did a few years ago...when they had those "pro tips" on RacerX. Pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlelHTHy7QE&feature=player_embedded

The message posted above is most likely my opinion and shouldn't be taken as fact....

Sheriff245

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Posts: 500

Joined: 12/22/2010

Location: CAN

1/24/2012 12:43 PM

I always push on my front end on the face of jumps. I want it to dive so the bike lands in the same angle as the landing..

TannerMxer

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Posts: 1025

Joined: 1/5/2010

Location: McKinney, TX USA

1/24/2012 12:44 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/24/2012 12:44 PM

ktm46 wrote: For those that have helped -- thank you.

Also, I do understand the physics of the bike. If you read my post I had pretty much diagnosed my problem already, I was just trying to confirm what I thought and maybe get a couple helpful bits of advice as well.

huck wrote: You're welcome.


Here's a video that RC did a few years ago...when they had those "pro tips" on RacerX. Pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlelHTHy7QE&feature=player_embedded

Why are you such a dick to this person?

Twitter: @Tnn3r


kongols

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Posts: 15132

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Location: Riga, LVA

1/24/2012 12:46 PM

huck wrote: You're welcome.


Here's a video that RC did a few years ago...when they had those "pro tips" on RacerX. Pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlelHTHy7QE&feature=player_embedded

The pessimist says it can`t get any worse, the optimist says it can.

ktm46

C100

Posts: 3

Joined: 1/23/2012

Location: NJ, USA

1/24/2012 12:47 PM

ktm46 wrote: For those that have helped -- thank you.

Also, I do understand the physics of the bike. If you read my post I had pretty much diagnosed my problem already, I was just trying to confirm what I thought and maybe get a couple helpful bits of advice as well.

huck wrote: You're welcome.


Here's a video that RC did a few years ago...when they had those "pro tips" on RacerX. Pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlelHTHy7QE&feature=player_embedded

TannerMxer wrote: Why are you such a dick to this person?

No worries. I know enough that I can tell who is trying to help and who isn't.

BobbyM

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Posts: 18136

Joined: 8/15/2006

Location: USA

1/24/2012 12:47 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/24/2012 12:48 PM

ktm46 wrote: I have a KTM 250 2 stroke. When I hit bigger jumps -- doubles, triples, even tabletops, the front wants to nosedive. What would cause this? Is it too much de-acceleration on the jump face? I have only been riding mx for a year and admit that I have a tendency to let off the gas on the jump face and sort of coast off of the lip. Common sense tells me that by coasting off I am essentially "falling" of the jump instead of launching off of it. Is my thinking correct?

Thanks for the help.

i wanna see how many losers actually take this guys question seriously.

how many losers we got so far?

sorry old mate.

"Just wait til SX hits the eastern part of the series...JS7 will dominate"

NetMXer

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Location: Woodstock, VA USA

1/24/2012 12:48 PM

In addition to changing your technique, make sure you have your suspension set up correctly. Too much rebound damping on the forks or too little on the rear will cause the same symptom.

huck

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Posts: 14866

Joined: 8/16/2006

Location: Mountain Home, AR USA

1/24/2012 12:50 PM

ktm46 wrote: I have a KTM 250 2 stroke. When I hit bigger jumps -- doubles, triples, even tabletops, the front wants to nosedive. What would cause this? Is it too much de-acceleration on the jump face? I have only been riding mx for a year and admit that I have a tendency to let off the gas on the jump face and sort of coast off of the lip. Common sense tells me that by coasting off I am essentially "falling" of the jump instead of launching off of it. Is my thinking correct?

Thanks for the help.

BobbyM wrote: i wanna see how many losers actually take this guys question seriously.

how many losers we got so far?

sorry old mate.

So people don't 'get it'... that's for sure.

The message posted above is most likely my opinion and shouldn't be taken as fact....

Motocross83

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Posts: 3543

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Location: GBR

1/24/2012 12:58 PM

When you hit the jump, your suspension compresses. Your forks compress first and then your shock. As soon as your front end is airborne, in space.... the shock is free to unload (rebound) because there is no longer an opposing force compressing it. Just like releasing a compressed spring. This is what causes the bike to nose dive. You must therefore counteract the force with throttle and body positioning. Starting out small, staying centralised with the motorcycle (support your weight with your legs, NOT with arms) and most importantly as SocalMX70 said, steady throttle control is the key. Depending on the jump face in question and with experimentation over time, you'll find a certain amount modification to your technique appropriate.
Best of luck.

CR250Rider

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1/24/2012 1:06 PM

ktm46 wrote: For those that have helped -- thank you.

Also, I do understand the physics of the bike. If you read my post I had pretty much diagnosed my problem already, I was just trying to confirm what I thought and maybe get a couple helpful bits of advice as well.

huck wrote: You're welcome.


Here's a video that RC did a few years ago...when they had those "pro tips" on RacerX. Pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlelHTHy7QE&feature=player_embedded

Great vid, pretty much explains everything

in a past life, I was myself

when opportunity knocked, it waited because I was busy

I gave my father a talking to

RandyS

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1/24/2012 1:15 PM

ktm46 wrote: I have a KTM 250 2 stroke. When I hit bigger jumps -- doubles, triples, even tabletops, the front wants to nosedive. What would cause this? Is it too much de-acceleration on the jump face? I have only been riding mx for a year and admit that I have a tendency to let off the gas on the jump face and sort of coast off of the lip. Common sense tells me that by coasting off I am essentially "falling" of the jump instead of launching off of it. Is my thinking correct?

Thanks for the help.

BobbyM wrote: i wanna see how many losers actually take this guys question seriously.

how many losers we got so far?

sorry old mate.

What are we missing, do you and fuck actually spend so much time living for a message board that you can instantly tell when someone is fucking around? Cuz if that post is someone like Ringer that is a pretty sad attempt at being funny. On the other hand if it's someone looking for advice who asked nicely and wasn't an asshat why fuck with him?

bullpen58

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Location: Fresno, CA USA

1/24/2012 1:20 PM

ktm46 wrote: I have a KTM 250 2 stroke. When I hit bigger jumps -- doubles, triples, even tabletops, the front wants to nosedive. What would cause this? Is it too much de-acceleration on the jump face? I have only been riding mx for a year and admit that I have a tendency to let off the gas on the jump face and sort of coast off of the lip. Common sense tells me that by coasting off I am essentially "falling" of the jump instead of launching off of it. Is my thinking correct?

Thanks for the help.

You're problem is obvious....you have NO business jumping doubles or triples if you can't control the way the bike lands. Be smart. Don't do something dumb and get hurt.

Take the advice in here and practice, practice, practice on SAFE jumps.

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