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12/18/2014
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Edited Date/Time
12/8/2017 11:16am
Yamaha can't keep going with the current 125 and 250s forever can they? I would like to think they have a new generation of the two strokes coming with either an adaptation of the current yzf frame/chassis, or a new frame, and an updated motor design.
When do you think we'll finally see a new platform released?
When do you think we'll finally see a new platform released?
1. Put the new style swing arm on damn it! I put it on my 15 and it definitely makes a difference, it's just so beyond stupid for them to keep using the old one.
2. Steeper head tube angle. The new swingarm helps put weight on the front, but I'd like a little more like the KTM has
3. The button!!! It's 2017, no moto/enduro bike should be sold without E-start at this point.
Another nice thing would be replacing the Phillips head bolts in the ignition cover with hex heads, but that's a small gripe. For me, as someone who rides one every weekend, this are my must do's. These are simple things that can be done pretty easily on a new model (E-start would be a little more intensive), and as far as I'm concerned the motor is just fine. Come on Yamaha, make it happen and make me buy a new one of these things.
And why on earth would you want e-start on a 2-stroke? They fire up 1st kick easily.
All these guys that want EFI and e-start on 2-strokes are going to kill this sport for good. The beauty of the 2-strokes is the light weight, simplicity, and relative affordability. More 2002-2006 CR250's were sold off craigslist last year than Honda sold new CRF450's for a reason.
The Shop
Besides, EVERYTHING most of y'all are arguing about has been "asked and answered" for me: I've been riding a Husky TE150 & I'm going to make a "TC150" for my "Superlight-Vet-Weapon".
Im all about EFI, but that shits been batteryless for 21 years OEM and 26 aftermarket . And without electric start.
You guys act like E-start is some crazy thing to ask for, it's not any sort of new technology and it shouldn't add any cost as far as I'm concerned considering they've been milking this design for 10+ years now. Adding the new swing arm is a bolt on modification for certain years (not 2014 like MXA thinks, ask me how I know. . .), so really no cost there since the tooling already exists. These aren't massive changes, just simple updates that would really help a few weak points in the bike. I still think the bike is plenty competitive, but some common sense changes would make a world of difference.
If you want a new two stroke, buy a KTM of husky. They actually give a shit about their two strokes.
All of the development work would have been complete before the 2005 model two strokes were released, all the tooling for the parts that Yamaha makes themselves would have been paid for long ago...updates have been very modest. So presumably these bikes have been very profitable for the14 model years of their existence.
Here in Australia, you can usually buy a new yz 450 cheaper than a 250 two stroke...not quite at the moment with the 18's but the 450 will get discounted in a few months, the two strokes never do..
You could argue a case that perhaps the long running profits from the two strokes are subsidising the development and tooling costs of the 4 year cycle four strokes...???
In any case surely the profits from 14 unchanged model years would have paid for the development and tooling of a new from the ground up bike...that's if Yamaha were in the habit of putting away a percentage of profit from those models to go towards the cost of a new model.. ???
I think Yamaha should bring out all new two strokes..they would sell but it might be at the cost of overall sales of their four stokes.
I read that it was Doug Dubach that went into bat for the two strokes when the bean counters were considering dropping them..So perhaps the cost of manufacturing alone with the 2 strokes, despite there being no ongoing development and tooling costs on these bikes , makes them unprofitable when they aren't selling in similar numbers to the four stokes ???
It's hard to know...and nobody really likes bean counters anyway....self righteous pricks!
So perhaps that's our answer there...Doug appealed to them to just keep making the two strokes so as to keep their loyal customers happy, and as long as they don't have to spend any money developing new ones..they will continue to make them???
Personally I've got no complaints with the bikes the way they are ,other than that they cost as much or often times more than the latest generation 4 strokes....that makes me feel as though I'm being ripped off!
Sure would be nice to know what their bottom line has been on them over the last 14 model years....
Top Ten Selling Motocross Motorcycles in Australia – Jan-June 2017
Second column is number of units sold, third column is +/- % of previous year
Yamaha YZ250F / 400 / -3.8%
Honda CRF450R / 357 / 58.0%
Yamaha YZ450F / 308 / -25.2%
Honda CRF250R / 279 / -1.1%
Kawasaki KX250F / 256 / -26.2%
Kawasaki KX450F / 210 / -47.1%
KTM 250SXF / 201 / 1.0%
KTM 450SXF / 192 / -24.1%
Yamaha YZ250 / 191 / 2.1%
KTM 50SX / 171/ 3.0%
However, Yamaha makes the yz 250 X for off roaders, and JM485 has a valid point about the advantage of e start in certain situations...if the c model had e start ,that would be fine by me..
Here's a scenario.....Yamaha does a deal with Racetech in Italy to supply the body work on its two strokes, in two colour options, red and white like this tantalising gem of a bike or the traditional blue..
Fits the GYTR exhaust system standard ( 2018 Australian models come standard with a GYTR system already )
Maybe does a deal with Moto Tassinari or Boyssen for reed blocks and maybe puts on the swing arm and linkage from the 250 f..
Maybe have a look at solving the transmission issue on the 250 that many have encountered..Actually that one should be a top priority if the number of complaints that I have read about is anything to go by..
Alll doable...years ago they sourced their handlebars from Pro Taper...
Would cause a bit of excitement amongst two stroke buying fans without necessarily breaking the bank..
Seeing as how Yamaha has shown flexibility in the past...we could once buy YZ 144's straight off the dealer floor and we've been getting GYTR stuff on them standard here in Aus for a while now...must be some arrangement between Yamaha Japan and the Aus distributor
I was looking at going a brand new yz 250 until I found a 2010 on original tyres. I couldn't see the point of spending double the money for the same bike all for the sake of a few hours of run time
Pit Row
We tried KTM and did not like them. To each their own but the YZ is the complete package. It comes stock with about a half a horsepower less than the KTM but a couple pounds lighter and the hop up potential is head an shoulders about the KTM as the orange bikes are already massaged to the max from the factory. Less vibration, broader powerband, hands down best suspension and reliability hat nothing can touch.
Again, not sure what you really want them to do. If the bike is about perfect, why touch it. Don't fall into the magazine and media game of "its dated", whatever, I can keep parts on hand and I don't have to constantly buy new crap when they change things.
The YZ250 smoker is about as perfect of a bike of any class you can buy.
There are so many times that you're in a precarious position and the bike stalls, it really isn't easy every single time to get your leg over and start it. And that one simple feature has me almost thinking of spending a lot more money for a bike with e-start.
The last 2 stroke I rode was over 20 years ago on a clapped out 87 cr125, the nostalgia is not why I'm buying a 2stroke. It's simply for the power to weight ratio of the bike in tight fairly technical trails, I'm going with the Yamaha because the design is proven, reliable and the price is right. They did just enough changes to the X model to make it a legitimate choice for those of us that do the off-road thing, but I still can't wait to see what it does on the track compared to my 250f... E-start would make it a no-brainer purchase.
For anyone saying e-start is pointless on a 2 stroke, I say get off the track and try some serious trails.
P.S. If I'm going to nitpick, yamaha swingarms are boring as hell. Its a blank canvas just asking for a little detail.
My buddy has a 17 TC250 and I was playing around with the springs and the tuning bolt yesterday. Very cool system that can easily adapt the power to different tracks and conditions.
No need for one on a moto track...but off road...easy starting two stroke or not, an e start sure is nice.
(IF KTM would just put some KYB SSS forks on their XC line, I'd just buy a KTM250XC...)
New brake pedal, I'm going to do this on my bike
New 5xc footpeg, titanium pegs are cool but they are smaller and crack.
New head,
black ignition cover that tan color is awful.
Triple clamps with moveable bar mounts.
New tank and shrouds that won't bubble the graphics.
Hydraulic clutch would be cool but that isn't a yamaha part yet.
The yz is a great bike, it's just not appealing to buy a new one. I bet when they run YZ's on the assembly line the managers go on vacation. That line has to be dialed in after 10+ years of the same bike.
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