Motocross to Off Road Racing?

mxtech1
Posts
1957
Joined
7/21/2011
Location
Galesburg, IL US
Edited Date/Time 6/13/2014 4:55pm
I've got a buddy at work who is big into hare scrambles and off road racing events. Every time I talk to him he's beating me down to come race with them. From the way he describes it, it sounds like it's a blast and could be fun to ride something new. I've grown up strictly racing MX so I feel like it will be a huge change. Most of their races run 45 to 90 minutes. I definitely feel like my fitness is going to be an issue since I'm used to 20 min max motos.

As far as bike setup on my 250SX, what do I need? I'm running Michelin intermediate terrain MX tires, +1 tooth on rear sprocket, and suspension is definitely set stiff for MX. I don't have any hand guards, a camel-back, or a large-capacity fuel tank.

I guess I'm just looking for some thoughts on opinions from any of you who have done both before.

Kind of getting bored with all of the same MX tracks in my area, so I feel like if I enjoyed this, it could re-ignite my passion to get back into the racing scene.
|
Darryl916
Posts
1252
Joined
12/19/2013
Location
Budds Creek, MD US
6/13/2014 6:55am
I'm strictly Motocross but have done one local Hare Scramble a year for the last 2 years. Just go do it and have a good time you will learn a ton the first time and do better than you think.

The key I've found on the trails is to

be smart
be patient
look for good lines
keep moving as smooth as possible

If you're going hard core and setting up a bike dedicated to off-road racing a few things will help a lot

Bark busters
Rekluse auto clutch
grab straps for the front and rear fender
IMS over-sized gas tank


I have just been doing the best I can with my moto setup. This year It was muddy and a total race of attrition. I finished 4th in the vet class. The 3 guys that beat me where on fully outfitted KTM 300exc's with big tanks, auto clutches, etc. The muddy, peg deep, rutted, steep hill climbs really worked my clutch hand out. The guys with auto clutches just tractored up them and could stop in the pile-ups and start again on the hills like nothing. Super advantage. I was running my bike exactly the same as I would for a mx race.


disbanded
Posts
6088
Joined
8/26/2007
Location
Denver, CO US
Fantasy
1734th
6/13/2014 6:57am
The single most important thing... Barkbusters!!!!
Gringoe
Posts
1586
Joined
4/12/2014
Location
MP
6/13/2014 6:59am
Don't need no bark busters and don't need no auto clutch. Check out the current point leaders bike. Normal plastic handguards and a normal clutch.

The Shop

6/13/2014 7:04am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2014 7:06am
Barkbusters and a decent skid plate are nice. After that just go a few clicks softer for comfort and go ride one. Don't take your first one too serious just have fun. Race corner to corner and try to keep a flow. Don't blow all you energy being hairball.
If a faster guy pulls up behind you it is accepted practice to let them by. If you are in C class there will be a bunch of dicks who don't.

Oh, you will probably need a spark arrestor too
Darryl916
Posts
1252
Joined
12/19/2013
Location
Budds Creek, MD US
6/13/2014 7:10am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2014 7:11am
Here are some pictures of my Hare Scramble this year (JAN 2014). It's held at a local ATV park. Race is 2 hours long. This year was my second attempt ever. And as I said my setup was completely MX.

On the line dead engine start standing in front of the bike


Sometime during the race....




I'm a 1 finger clutch guy but 2 hours working it non stop made a 2 finger guy out of me pretty quick. This hill is super steep






Find more pictures of the carnage here....

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.544337578995394.1073741832.50…
Mouse153
Posts
548
Joined
2/16/2013
Location
Virginia Beach, VA US
6/13/2014 7:18am
I ran my first hare scramble last weekend on my YZ125 - completely MX setup - and it worked well enough. No barkbusters but I did run some roost guards. I had a blast and look forward to doing more.
Darryl916
Posts
1252
Joined
12/19/2013
Location
Budds Creek, MD US
6/13/2014 7:23am
This is a GoPro video I found on youtube from some random guy doing the same race.


FullThrottle
Posts
146
Joined
2/9/2014
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
6/13/2014 7:26am
Skid plate and go racing. If it ends up being something you really enjoy then outfit the bike from there. No need for an auto clutch.
Outsider
Posts
10634
Joined
1/29/2009
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
6/13/2014 7:36am
Just stand up a lot and ride smooth... you'll end up being faster anyway. You can tinker with your bike later, moto bikes work just fine.
Ashleymx
Posts
694
Joined
8/12/2008
Location
Cumming, GA US
6/13/2014 7:37am
I raced a few enduro events on a motocross bike. Yeah suspension was way to harsh on the tight slow stuff. You could feel every little tree root or rock. All you need for handguards are the plastic KTM ones I reckon. Even though they'll flex right into your hands with a hard hit its more than enough for branches, You just need them to stop your clutch and front brake being pulled in unexpectedly. . If your slamming solid trees then you've got bigger issues lol. (Never been a fan of bark busters for the simple fact I get arm pump and have nightmares of an arm sliding through them and breaking ) As far as fitness goes I think you'll be surprised. Its no where near as intense as moto. At the end of the day you'll be just as worn out, More seat time but less intensity.
IWreckALot
Posts
8677
Joined
3/12/2011
Location
Fort Worth, TX US
6/13/2014 7:44am
Just loosen your clickers for your first race and see how it feels. Bark Busters are really nice but I raced 3 years without them. Finally got them this year and it's nice no smashing my pinky all the time. You probably wont need a bigger gas tank if you're running 60 minute plus one lap moto's. I raced a 450F and now race a 250 2 stroke on a stock tank.

Rock gardens suck.
ehr400
Posts
2613
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Britton, MI US
6/13/2014 7:46am
I would say BB's for sure. I ran a YZ 250 in HS's and worked great, if it was super tight though it would have been nice to have a rekluse but if you are doing a one time gig your mx setup should be fine.
mxtech1
Posts
1957
Joined
7/21/2011
Location
Galesburg, IL US
6/13/2014 8:08am
So what's the best method for dead engine starts on a two stroke?
Start in gear or in neutral?

I race B MX, should I register for off road B or C? I am honestly just looking to have fun
moto726
Posts
378
Joined
1/5/2011
Location
Twin Falls, ID US
6/13/2014 8:26am
I grew up racing nothing but Mx and arenacross and I did my first hare scramble late last year and it was awesome!! My bike was not setup for off road at all, my cousin just said hey come try this bike out and see what you think of hare scrambles...ended up doing pretty well til I got stuck on a log off the trail (rookie oops lol) but I will for sure be setting my 450 up to do some more when the moto season winds down, great test of your overall ability on a bike that's for sure!!





JM485
Posts
5403
Joined
10/1/2013
Location
Davis, CA US
6/13/2014 8:28am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2014 8:29am
mxtech1 wrote:
So what's the best method for dead engine starts on a two stroke? Start in gear or in neutral? I race B MX, should I register...
So what's the best method for dead engine starts on a two stroke?
Start in gear or in neutral?

I race B MX, should I register for off road B or C? I am honestly just looking to have fun
I would just put the bike in first and start it in gear. I have only done two hare scrambles, but I pulled the holeshot on the last one. The start is super important since it can be very hard to pass once you get into the trails. I learned a lot my first time and came back for the second one and did a lot better.

One thing I noticed was that the staggered start can be kind of a pain. They let different classes go at one minute intervals, so I caught up to them pretty quickly. The four stroke classes let me by pretty quickly since they could tell I was not in their class ( I was on my rm250), but once I caught the 200 and 300 classes I had to make some riskier passes.

Realistically, just have fun and enjoy the atmosphere out there. Everyone is super cool and look out for each other, so enjoy the experience!

Edit: get a skid plate!
peelout
Posts
17867
Joined
1/6/2011
Location
Ogden, UT US
6/13/2014 8:33am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2014 8:36am
bro, just don't treat it like a 20 minute moto and you'll be fine. leave your ego home and go into it with a goal of finishing. you'll learn a lot and take that with you the next time you race a hare scramble.

as for the start i would do a neutral start so you're guaranteed a one-kick-start. hold in the clutch and keep your left shin between your foot-peg and shifter. once your kick leg is through the kick, jam your other leg up and it'll shift you into 2nd. works every time. otherwise, get a KTM and enjoy the finer things in life, like "The Button" Wink
MxKing809
Posts
6380
Joined
10/13/2013
Location
Big Sand Whoops, MI US
Fantasy
315th
6/13/2014 10:08am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2014 10:12am
I raced purely Moto until 2009 when I met my to be wife and her family. There were into enduros and harescrambles and roped me in. Motocross teaches us corner speed and mainly carrying speed into corners and keeping a flow. Most woods guys have trouble with this. Because of that I was able to go into the woods after never riding between trees and do very well. In 2010 I won the National Enduro Championship in the B class (like Loretta's for enduros, but a multi-race series) in my second year in the woods.

If you have power valve springs for the 250sx put the green spring in, and get some bark busters. Other than that you're fine. I race(d) full Moto two stokes in the woods with no problem and actually prefer the power delivery of a race bike to a wood bike like an xc or xcw
IWreckALot
Posts
8677
Joined
3/12/2011
Location
Fort Worth, TX US
6/13/2014 10:17am
JM485 wrote:
I would just put the bike in first and start it in gear. I have only done two hare scrambles, but I pulled the holeshot on...
I would just put the bike in first and start it in gear. I have only done two hare scrambles, but I pulled the holeshot on the last one. The start is super important since it can be very hard to pass once you get into the trails. I learned a lot my first time and came back for the second one and did a lot better.

One thing I noticed was that the staggered start can be kind of a pain. They let different classes go at one minute intervals, so I caught up to them pretty quickly. The four stroke classes let me by pretty quickly since they could tell I was not in their class ( I was on my rm250), but once I caught the 200 and 300 classes I had to make some riskier passes.

Realistically, just have fun and enjoy the atmosphere out there. Everyone is super cool and look out for each other, so enjoy the experience!

Edit: get a skid plate!
Agreed with getting a skid plate. Rocks do not do your engine case any good. Another reason rock gardens suck.

My opinion is that the crowds at the off road racing are a LOT more family oriented than the motocross. It's looked at a competition still but everyone depends on everyone on the track. If you have a wreck and get injured, sometimes a fellow competitor is your only help for several minutes whereas MX, the race doesn't stop for you. This has been my experience at least.
Titan1
Posts
8616
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
6/13/2014 10:19am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2014 10:20am
Here are some tips for the MXer going off road racing for the first time:

-Pace yourself...it's not a sprint
-Hand Guards
-Pace yourself
-You aren't going to win your first one (no matter how slow you think off road guys are)...just accept that, and take good mental notes for the next race
-Have fun
-Hydrate...way before and during
-Eat a lot of food before the race...you don't want to get hungry mid race...if you do, you bonk.
-Pace yourself
-Stop and help a down rider...your competitors are all you've got out there

I wouldn't worry to much about bike set up for your first race...soften the compression a few clicks and let 'er rip.
I wouldn't worry about an oversized tank for your first race...how long is the loop? How many loops do you think you'll do? If you need to, just make a pit stop.
If you make a pit stop, dump some gas in a one gallon milk jug...its a poor mans quick fill...just tip the jug over and crush it with your hands...and your tank is almost instantly full.
On your pace...its your first race, you aren't going to know what your body can do over 90 minutes...so the first race is a learning curve. I'd rather pace myself to slow, and then be able to really push the last two loops...rather than start to fast and bonk with two loops to go.

If you like it...and you will...and want to do it more...then get the IMS tank, and the Rekluse EXP 3.0, and revalve the suspension and the fly wheel weights and all the other jazz than will make your race more energy efficient...
hvaughn88
Posts
8363
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR US
6/13/2014 10:20am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2014 10:21am
IWreckALot wrote:
Agreed with getting a skid plate. Rocks do not do your engine case any good. Another reason rock gardens suck. My opinion is that the crowds...
Agreed with getting a skid plate. Rocks do not do your engine case any good. Another reason rock gardens suck.

My opinion is that the crowds at the off road racing are a LOT more family oriented than the motocross. It's looked at a competition still but everyone depends on everyone on the track. If you have a wreck and get injured, sometimes a fellow competitor is your only help for several minutes whereas MX, the race doesn't stop for you. This has been my experience at least.
That's really cool to hear. I'm just now starting to get back into the sport myself after a 10 year hiatus and I have found that I just don't have the desire (or balls) to really hammer down on an MX track anymore. The woods racing has really sparked my interest and will probably be the avenue I pursue. My youngest son is almost old enough that I don't feel (as) guilty leaving my wife at home with our two boys while I go ride so hopefully I can get going soon.
usp4u
Posts
587
Joined
3/25/2011
Location
Karns City, PA US
6/13/2014 12:00pm
I've been racing GP's(half woods/half moto) and Off-Road almost exclusively for the last three years. Much more fun environment than constant moto.
disbanded
Posts
6088
Joined
8/26/2007
Location
Denver, CO US
Fantasy
1734th
6/13/2014 12:09pm
mxtech1 wrote:
I've got a buddy at work who is big into hare scrambles and off road racing events. Every time I talk to him he's beating me...
I've got a buddy at work who is big into hare scrambles and off road racing events. Every time I talk to him he's beating me down to come race with them. From the way he describes it, it sounds like it's a blast and could be fun to ride something new. I've grown up strictly racing MX so I feel like it will be a huge change. Most of their races run 45 to 90 minutes. I definitely feel like my fitness is going to be an issue since I'm used to 20 min max motos.

As far as bike setup on my 250SX, what do I need? I'm running Michelin intermediate terrain MX tires, +1 tooth on rear sprocket, and suspension is definitely set stiff for MX. I don't have any hand guards, a camel-back, or a large-capacity fuel tank.

I guess I'm just looking for some thoughts on opinions from any of you who have done both before.

Kind of getting bored with all of the same MX tracks in my area, so I feel like if I enjoyed this, it could re-ignite my passion to get back into the racing scene.
Those telling you that you don't need handguards - that's like saying you don't need a helmet.

Sure, you may be fine - until you need them. Boom, fingers crushed. It's avoidable.



Loftin79
Posts
180
Joined
5/22/2012
Location
OK US
6/13/2014 1:38pm
I do both mx and hare scrambles. 5 laps around a moto track at race pace is wayyyy harder than a 2 hour hare scramble i think. My suspension is a moto setup by Factory Connection and the guys that do trackside for them softened my compression 5 clicks on front and 3 on back when i do offroad. If its really tight single track i suggest bark busters.
BAMX
Posts
2841
Joined
1/22/2012
Location
Fallbrook, CA US
6/13/2014 1:43pm
My 2 cents would be:

1. Yes on hand guards they are cheap and worth while but not absolutely necessary.
2. Pace yourself or you will pump up or just get exhausted and wish you hadn't
3. Suspension... It is all personal preference. That being said, you probably want it a little softer than a pure moto setup. There are pros and cons to stiff moto type setups and soft plush setups. Titan1's idea to take a few click out on compression is solid advice.
4. You will want some sort of drink system. I usually run a mix of sport drink and water. If you do, clean the thing out as soon as you get home.
5: Lastly, have fun and get ready to be sore for days.

Post a reply to: Motocross to Off Road Racing?

The Latest