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9783
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bossier city, LA
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3311th
Edited Date/Time
1/26/2012 5:34pm
Well, I can honestly say that he is excited at this rule change. The conversation went better than I could have expected. He liked the proposal and stated that it was palatable, since it was not a large change. He went on to mention that he is tired of seeing the cost of the four stroke racing rise and the two stroke disappear. In fact, he stated that it would work better if the rule change said 150 instead of 144 (to which I agreed).
I asked him what the steps were for getting this in place. He said that he would open up discussions with Jeff Canfield (who he has already mentioned it to), Kevin Crowther (sp?) and the people over on the Supercross side. (He said Supercross was important since the FIM was involved). From this point he said he would get his boss involved (the director of AMA Pro Racing) and the decision would be made. He said that they would consider Cost, Safety, and Good for the Sport - Is it cost effective for the racer; Is it safe and doesn't involve danger to the racer and others; and Is it good for the sport.
He asked if I could get him a copy of the petition (another one) and some cost comparisons for the modifications, along with the bikes in production right now that meet this category (which he said that this was actually his job to do, but this would help him a lot if I didn't mind getting it together). John Nicholas has gotten most of this already, so I will gather the information I need and put it all together. I will post it here for suggestions before I send it up.
All in all, it was a very encouraging conversation. I have no doubt that this guy is pro 2-stroke and wants to see it through. He was genuinely excited at the possibility of this thing getting approved since this rule would transcend over to Road Racing and other disciplines as well.
I know it's kind of hard to relay how a conversation went, but we both are confident that it will happen. The tone I got from him was that the AMA seems refreshed by the idea and is also aware that there is a growing problem with mx and sx, mainly the racing costs to the individual racer.
So, I will begin getting this stuff together and post it here.
It's still important to keep spreading the word about the petition. I would like to get about 2000 signatures. Man, that would be awesome:
www.gopetition.com/petition/38076.html
Thanks,
Mark Slate
I asked him what the steps were for getting this in place. He said that he would open up discussions with Jeff Canfield (who he has already mentioned it to), Kevin Crowther (sp?) and the people over on the Supercross side. (He said Supercross was important since the FIM was involved). From this point he said he would get his boss involved (the director of AMA Pro Racing) and the decision would be made. He said that they would consider Cost, Safety, and Good for the Sport - Is it cost effective for the racer; Is it safe and doesn't involve danger to the racer and others; and Is it good for the sport.
He asked if I could get him a copy of the petition (another one) and some cost comparisons for the modifications, along with the bikes in production right now that meet this category (which he said that this was actually his job to do, but this would help him a lot if I didn't mind getting it together). John Nicholas has gotten most of this already, so I will gather the information I need and put it all together. I will post it here for suggestions before I send it up.
All in all, it was a very encouraging conversation. I have no doubt that this guy is pro 2-stroke and wants to see it through. He was genuinely excited at the possibility of this thing getting approved since this rule would transcend over to Road Racing and other disciplines as well.
I know it's kind of hard to relay how a conversation went, but we both are confident that it will happen. The tone I got from him was that the AMA seems refreshed by the idea and is also aware that there is a growing problem with mx and sx, mainly the racing costs to the individual racer.
So, I will begin getting this stuff together and post it here.
It's still important to keep spreading the word about the petition. I would like to get about 2000 signatures. Man, that would be awesome:
www.gopetition.com/petition/38076.html
Thanks,
Mark Slate
Regardless, nice that you feel so passionately about this that you'd go through all the trouble (although you apparently still don't really know which organization your'e dealing with). Good luck.
A real danger we have right now (imo) is the AMA is powerless (and u could argue that they deserve to be with all their bumblings over the years) and the promoters (Feld and MX Sports) now control the rules and regulations in the sport of porfessional sx/mx and I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.
I'm of the opinion that promoters should worry about selling tickets and rules and regulations should come from someone that has no interest in the selling of tickets. We're in dangerous waters I think.
The Shop
I guess I don't get what's so hard to figure out, it was all well publicized at the time, but if it fits your agenda to make it seem more confusing than it really is, then hey, who am I to try and correct you? My point was that the guy that did the petition doesn't even know who he's dealing with.
It kind of weirds me out when people take urban myths and conspiracy theories, and keep tossing them out there like they're fact.
You know, all in all I don't think this will hurt anything. At the worst, it will get discussions going on how to improve the sport. Hopefully, they will allow it.
how many people would actually make use of this rule change?
they are just being good promoters and making sure they keep the smoker lovers at bay.
150 and 300's is NOT a step in the right direction in my opinion as once that happens, it can be easily stated "we did this" now go sit down and shut up about the 2 stroke.
Now if that 1000 or so petition list of people continue to grow, and they stop going to events and stop buying 4 strokes and are vocal about it well maybe someone will listen.
maybe if that 1000 turns into 2000 in the next month or so they may start to pay attention.
I don't think 250cc heads up in stupidcross would matter. it would be fair hard to use that type of horsepower on dryslick tracks.
outdoors is where the 450 class needs opened up.
who knows it's pro racing they can do what they want, and there isn't a big enough "pay day" on the smoker side to matter........
glad amateur is working the way it is........
companies will wait until the last of us old guys are gone and well the new kids don't have a clue what the 2 stroke was like and don't care, they only care about what RD, or James, or whoever is riding today they have more strokes..........
The powers that be have already admitted the displacement rules are flawed. Why won't they make an effort to correct it and see what happens? Flawed rules in MX had nothing to do with how people voted with their wallets?
Pit Row
Every track i go to has thumpers everywhere and although I haven't been to a GNCC in '10, the ones I went to in '08 and '09 had way more 4-stokes than 2 (although there was a fair number of two-strokes at these races).
Do you have any data to back up your thoughts?
AMA shouldve never made the 550cc rule for 4-strokes and when they saw what Yamaha did, they should've stopped it then but they, as usual, were slow to react. You two-stroke people remind me of people still talking about how great record players sound.
Give it up, it's dead. At least for the foreseeable future, the OEM's are already building 2013 bikes. Someday they may come back (after all, who in the mid-80's would've ever predicted that thumpers would rule the world?) but not anytime soon.
I reentered the market in 2005 after 17 years. Torn between the choice of a 250f (new technology and easy to ride), 450f new technology and a lil scary after 17 years off) and finally the good ol 250 2 stroker that I was told was on its way out. I bought the 250f, as it turned out not quite enough power and I worried all the time about the engine letting go. I knew if the engine or valves had a problem I would be out of business for a good while. I never worried about this on my old CR250's, just rode and had fun.
I guess my point is that people vote one way all the time and soon discover that maybe they would be better off voting the other way, especially when it comes to their wallets. It seems to me people close to the the sport and industry continually dismiss the 2 stroke feeling out there which is fine, give me a fast 4 stroke that is reliable, bulletproof and relatively inexpensive to repair if the first two can't be met, then the 2 stroke rumblings will diminish. Otherwise give me a choice again.
Will we see two-strokes again? Who knows? But the current pro class rules make them a futile effort at best.
One thing to consider,though, when everyone's piling on, and it could use a global fix. the AMA...this is also a global issue, and could use a global fix.
it's about marketing, it's about promotion and it won't change unless they allow it. Call it helicopters if ya like but nothing is going to hurt the already horrible sales they are fighting right now.
Allowing any 2 stroke in the pro levels of racing will be the same as admitting their marketing stradigy failed.
We all will know when this "cycle" as Guy states is over and that is when either Honda starts making 2 strokes again (hell freeze over) OR China starts mass producing smokers which are knock offs of the big four. At the reasonable prices these could bring back ridership in a big way and help the big four ...................... of course short sightedness isn't unique to this sport.......
Oh and looks weird enough to be Honda!
The primary difference between the 2 stroke and the 4 stroke is the amount of money that has been spent to develop the two types of engines. There has been billions more spent on developing the 4 stroke.
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