Matthes is great for the sport

MxKing809
Posts
6380
Joined
10/13/2013
Location
Big Sand Whoops, MI US
Fantasy
315th
Edited Date/Time 8/5/2014 3:24pm
Love him or hate him, he has been the epicentre of news the last few years. I enjoy the behind the scene news and insight to the industry.

He just posted a few tweets on line that brought up a very interesting scenario:

Kenny Roczen is notoriously leaving Factory KTM for RCH Soaring Eagle/Dodge?/Fox Suzuki.

Matthes' point is that as a rider, it's much more secure to remain at a Factory funded race program opposed to a privately funded one for the following reasons:
-technology, and likelihood to share info
-funding
-reliance on sponsors/results etc

If Muscle Milk says 'I'm out' at Honda, they're fine, Monster says 'I'm out' at Kawi they're hurt, but fine. If that happens at RCH, TWO TWO and the like, they are in a world of hurt.

Other than the base salary Kenny in getting from RCH, he is giving up security in the program, factory tech and ease of availability to that tech, and the stress to keep key sponsors happy all the time (CR22). It begs the question at what point it's worth the switch to privately funded team?

So to come full circle, I'll give this thought experiment full credit to Matthes.... Keep up the good work!

On a side note: I think RCH is as solid as you can get as a private team aside from JGR, but still deserves discussion.
|
8/4/2014 12:51pm Edited Date/Time 8/4/2014 12:52pm
RCH..is factory Zuki.....just like Yosh.....just like Geico n Honder...JGR n Yammerz...etc.....
this aint da 70's 80's or 90's no mo' ...
newmann
Posts
24444
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
8/4/2014 12:56pm
If DeCoster had difficulties getting anything out of Suzuki Japan, how in the hell will anyone else?
Darryl916
Posts
1252
Joined
12/19/2013
Location
Budds Creek, MD US
8/4/2014 12:58pm
After the dust settles from JS7's departure RCH with a title contender on board will be THE factory Suzuki team. Watch!

The Shop

circus
Posts
341
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
gladwin, MI US
8/4/2014 12:58pm
I live 30 minutes from Soaring Eagle casino, while i have zero clue on what they pay for sponsorship to RCH, I know that place is packed nearly everyday. On the other hand, a private team is just a wealthy individuals hobby, when they are tired of the hobby, the money leaves.
KlootZak
Posts
1324
Joined
7/15/2012
Location
Brussels BE
8/4/2014 1:09pm
I still think it's a stupid move of Roczen. He will still win races but I like his chances more with KTM. KTM can really make an entire bike for him, RCH can't. They can modify a lot but they can't do the same as KTM.
ChrisB10
Posts
2082
Joined
5/24/2014
Location
Plattsburgh, NY US
8/4/2014 1:14pm
Love Matthes because he doesn't kiss ass like how he was the only to publicly call out Davi this whole time. Huge fan of the podcasts.
GuyB
Posts
35699
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
Fantasy
988th
8/4/2014 1:18pm
Go in the Yoshimura Suzuki Factory Racing shop...and look to the left in the same room and see the RCH Racing Soaring Eagle shop.
TeamGreen
Posts
28971
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
8/4/2014 1:20pm Edited Date/Time 8/4/2014 1:21pm
A lot of assumptions being made in here.

The 1st and craziest is the one where we think that In-House Factory Teams will be "fine" w/out sponsorship $. That's not how it is, these days. Especially with the Teams that hire the expensive talent that you see winning championships.

The 2nd, and almost as crazy as the 1st: That a Team like RCH or JGR doesn't have the "security" to offer a rider like a Factory Team does. The "Private Teams" are paying someone a salary higher than a Factory Team could offer to a certain rider that's currently running around with a Red Plate. The OEM said so, themsleves, in a recent German interview. Where's Factory Yamaha? (Tho, they may return...sorta), Where's Factory Suzuki? One type of team is on the rise and another type is on the decline. Hart and the Gibbs have been INCREASING their Investment. There are more and more "Private" teams that are grabbing wins and championships. Rockstar just got their 1st and Star is looking pretty good, too.

The 3rd: Factory Teams/OEMs have the settings and the Privateer Teams don't?

Best handling Suzuki I saw, all year? Weston's SX bike. Seems those JGR Yamaha's looked pretty damn good, too. Geico Hondas? It's true that the OEM "Factory" Teams have a lot of direct support; but, that doesn't seem to mean "the best settings" these days. KTM is it's own situation: WP has all the Teams covered.

The OEM's Leaning on Support Teams to get a certain rider? Absolutely. Been there, seen it...participated. But, it's the exact same way with "Sponsors", too...RV's latest debacle...is that bewteen him and Kawi or him and....?

I'm jus' sayin'...

Btw, did anyone notice how Nice-n-Stock Davi's New Works bike looks?
8/4/2014 1:22pm
GuyB wrote:
Go in the Yoshimura Suzuki Factory Racing shop...and look to the left in the same room and see the RCH Racing Soaring Eagle shop.
there is no way this is possible...at all...if ever....
RCH is just some make shift wanna bees....haha....
MxKing809
Posts
6380
Joined
10/13/2013
Location
Big Sand Whoops, MI US
Fantasy
315th
8/4/2014 1:22pm
GuyB wrote:
Go in the Yoshimura Suzuki Factory Racing shop...and look to the left in the same room and see the RCH Racing Soaring Eagle shop.
Do you think with Factory Suzukis history, and lack of funds in the past, would extend itself if RCH was sponsorless and needed a bail-out of sorts?
MxKing809
Posts
6380
Joined
10/13/2013
Location
Big Sand Whoops, MI US
Fantasy
315th
8/4/2014 1:26pm Edited Date/Time 8/4/2014 1:27pm
TeamGreen wrote:
A lot of assumptions being made in here. The 1st and craziest is the one where we think that In-House Factory Teams will be "fine" w/out...
A lot of assumptions being made in here.

The 1st and craziest is the one where we think that In-House Factory Teams will be "fine" w/out sponsorship $. That's not how it is, these days. Especially with the Teams that hire the expensive talent that you see winning championships.

The 2nd, and almost as crazy as the 1st: That a Team like RCH or JGR doesn't have the "security" to offer a rider like a Factory Team does. The "Private Teams" are paying someone a salary higher than a Factory Team could offer to a certain rider that's currently running around with a Red Plate. The OEM said so, themsleves, in a recent German interview. Where's Factory Yamaha? (Tho, they may return...sorta), Where's Factory Suzuki? One type of team is on the rise and another type is on the decline. Hart and the Gibbs have been INCREASING their Investment. There are more and more "Private" teams that are grabbing wins and championships. Rockstar just got their 1st and Star is looking pretty good, too.

The 3rd: Factory Teams/OEMs have the settings and the Privateer Teams don't?

Best handling Suzuki I saw, all year? Weston's SX bike. Seems those JGR Yamaha's looked pretty damn good, too. Geico Hondas? It's true that the OEM "Factory" Teams have a lot of direct support; but, that doesn't seem to mean "the best settings" these days. KTM is it's own situation: WP has all the Teams covered.

The OEM's Leaning on Support Teams to get a certain rider? Absolutely. Been there, seen it...participated. But, it's the exact same way with "Sponsors", too...RV's latest debacle...is that bewteen him and Kawi or him and....?

I'm jus' sayin'...

Btw, did anyone notice how Nice-n-Stock Davi's New Works bike looks?
I did say in my post that RCH is as solid as they come other than JGR.... I don't think either of them are shaky... But at the end of the day Two Two is putting out an injuried rider to keep the bills payed, that's not security.

I don't think they are sub-par, or at risk to fail... But it's a valid point to a top tier rider. Just interesting to contemplate.
8/4/2014 1:29pm
TeamGreen wrote:
A lot of assumptions being made in here. The 1st and craziest is the one where we think that In-House Factory Teams will be "fine" w/out...
A lot of assumptions being made in here.

The 1st and craziest is the one where we think that In-House Factory Teams will be "fine" w/out sponsorship $. That's not how it is, these days. Especially with the Teams that hire the expensive talent that you see winning championships.

The 2nd, and almost as crazy as the 1st: That a Team like RCH or JGR doesn't have the "security" to offer a rider like a Factory Team does. The "Private Teams" are paying someone a salary higher than a Factory Team could offer to a certain rider that's currently running around with a Red Plate. The OEM said so, themsleves, in a recent German interview. Where's Factory Yamaha? (Tho, they may return...sorta), Where's Factory Suzuki? One type of team is on the rise and another type is on the decline. Hart and the Gibbs have been INCREASING their Investment. There are more and more "Private" teams that are grabbing wins and championships. Rockstar just got their 1st and Star is looking pretty good, too.

The 3rd: Factory Teams/OEMs have the settings and the Privateer Teams don't?

Best handling Suzuki I saw, all year? Weston's SX bike. Seems those JGR Yamaha's looked pretty damn good, too. Geico Hondas? It's true that the OEM "Factory" Teams have a lot of direct support; but, that doesn't seem to mean "the best settings" these days. KTM is it's own situation: WP has all the Teams covered.

The OEM's Leaning on Support Teams to get a certain rider? Absolutely. Been there, seen it...participated. But, it's the exact same way with "Sponsors", too...RV's latest debacle...is that bewteen him and Kawi or him and....?

I'm jus' sayin'...

Btw, did anyone notice how Nice-n-Stock Davi's New Works bike looks?
MxKing809 wrote:
I did say in my post that RCH is as solid as they come other than JGR.... I don't think either of them are shaky... But...
I did say in my post that RCH is as solid as they come other than JGR.... I don't think either of them are shaky... But at the end of the day Two Two is putting out an injuried rider to keep the bills payed, that's not security.

I don't think they are sub-par, or at risk to fail... But it's a valid point to a top tier rider. Just interesting to contemplate.
would it make it better if they were sponsored by M&M's.....
MxKing809
Posts
6380
Joined
10/13/2013
Location
Big Sand Whoops, MI US
Fantasy
315th
8/4/2014 1:40pm
TeamGreen wrote:
A lot of assumptions being made in here. The 1st and craziest is the one where we think that In-House Factory Teams will be "fine" w/out...
A lot of assumptions being made in here.

The 1st and craziest is the one where we think that In-House Factory Teams will be "fine" w/out sponsorship $. That's not how it is, these days. Especially with the Teams that hire the expensive talent that you see winning championships.

The 2nd, and almost as crazy as the 1st: That a Team like RCH or JGR doesn't have the "security" to offer a rider like a Factory Team does. The "Private Teams" are paying someone a salary higher than a Factory Team could offer to a certain rider that's currently running around with a Red Plate. The OEM said so, themsleves, in a recent German interview. Where's Factory Yamaha? (Tho, they may return...sorta), Where's Factory Suzuki? One type of team is on the rise and another type is on the decline. Hart and the Gibbs have been INCREASING their Investment. There are more and more "Private" teams that are grabbing wins and championships. Rockstar just got their 1st and Star is looking pretty good, too.

The 3rd: Factory Teams/OEMs have the settings and the Privateer Teams don't?

Best handling Suzuki I saw, all year? Weston's SX bike. Seems those JGR Yamaha's looked pretty damn good, too. Geico Hondas? It's true that the OEM "Factory" Teams have a lot of direct support; but, that doesn't seem to mean "the best settings" these days. KTM is it's own situation: WP has all the Teams covered.

The OEM's Leaning on Support Teams to get a certain rider? Absolutely. Been there, seen it...participated. But, it's the exact same way with "Sponsors", too...RV's latest debacle...is that bewteen him and Kawi or him and....?

I'm jus' sayin'...

Btw, did anyone notice how Nice-n-Stock Davi's New Works bike looks?
I did see that Team Green.... That's a mighty stock looking bike.... Aside from the 50mm white air forks!! Grinning
MxKing809
Posts
6380
Joined
10/13/2013
Location
Big Sand Whoops, MI US
Fantasy
315th
8/4/2014 1:43pm Edited Date/Time 8/4/2014 1:44pm
GuyB wrote:
Go in the Yoshimura Suzuki Factory Racing shop...and look to the left in the same room and see the RCH Racing Soaring Eagle shop.
Will you take me next time I'm in the Temecula area?!?!? Cool
gt80rider
Posts
6275
Joined
4/19/2008
Location
Boulder, CO US
8/4/2014 1:57pm
Do factory teams have the cash of private teams now days? Did the gross sales of all dirtbikes from the big four in the USA last year even equal how much red bull spent on one of the f1 teams?

We r used to the factory teams being the end all in this sport, but I just can't see them having the cash to do it anymore... I would speculate that a private team with a big casino and a sport drink sponsor would have loads more cash to throw at a rider, and on technology, than one of the big four right now...
TeamGreen
Posts
28971
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
8/4/2014 2:28pm
Btw, I agree on Matthes..

He was one of the 1st to grab the concept of "New Media" and he's making a good run of it.
Brent
Posts
5302
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Party in Temecula, CA US
8/4/2014 2:41pm
Well, Pit Beirer said they were out- bid for Kenny, so it is about the long green, not the bike.

Didn't Dungey have trouble getting his bonus money in 2010?
Brent
Posts
5302
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Party in Temecula, CA US
8/4/2014 2:43pm
GuyB wrote:
Go in the Yoshimura Suzuki Factory Racing shop...and look to the left in the same room and see the RCH Racing Soaring Eagle shop.
MxKing809 wrote:
Will you take me next time I'm in the Temecula area?!?!? Cool
its in Chino, go by anytime and just tell them you're a member at Vital MX, they'll let you right in....
peelout
Posts
17870
Joined
1/6/2011
Location
Ogden, UT US
8/4/2014 2:59pm
Brent wrote:
Well, Pit Beirer said they were out- bid for Kenny, so it is about the long green, not the bike. Didn't Dungey have trouble getting his...
Well, Pit Beirer said they were out- bid for Kenny, so it is about the long green, not the bike.

Didn't Dungey have trouble getting his bonus money in 2010?
Dungey's 2010 team and Kenny's 2015 team are vastly different i would say

but yes, i did hear he had problems getting bonus money (heard it on the interwebz)
Kyle978
Posts
1297
Joined
10/7/2013
Location
Steers & Queers, TX US
8/4/2014 3:02pm
I definitely appreciate all the content Matthes puts out, and I like his no BS attitude.
8/4/2014 3:10pm Edited Date/Time 8/4/2014 3:12pm
Brent wrote:
Well, Pit Beirer said they were out- bid for Kenny, so it is about the long green, not the bike. Didn't Dungey have trouble getting his...
Well, Pit Beirer said they were out- bid for Kenny, so it is about the long green, not the bike.

Didn't Dungey have trouble getting his bonus money in 2010?
I guess the ceiling per rider is lower for the factory teams? It may sound ridiculous but look at KTM for example, they try to run at least 1 high tier rider (2 in the 450s now in the US) in each class on BOTH sides of the pond. It seems that RCH grabbed all their wallets together and scared off KTM with an offer they could not top with their current budget. It's also a dangerous bet to me tho, the 450s are competitive as hell these days. Tomac is showing that Kenny is not the only wonderkid in town. It's a nail biter this year, imagine the lack of fingernails in 2015 if they can come into the outdoors healthy.
PressPassP
Posts
3326
Joined
3/3/2010
Location
Ipswich GB
8/4/2014 3:23pm
GuyB wrote:
Go in the Yoshimura Suzuki Factory Racing shop...and look to the left in the same room and see the RCH Racing Soaring Eagle shop.
MxKing809 wrote:
Do you think with Factory Suzukis history, and lack of funds in the past, would extend itself if RCH was sponsorless and needed a bail-out of...
Do you think with Factory Suzukis history, and lack of funds in the past, would extend itself if RCH was sponsorless and needed a bail-out of sorts?
Factory Suzuki has a great programme in Europe,even stepping up their 250 effort,you'd think when a guy like Kenny is in talks they'd show some support,he's actually returning too
gonemoto
Posts
355
Joined
2/3/2012
Location
Chico, CA US
8/4/2014 4:48pm
The private team route didn't work out for Dean Wilson on the Jeff Ward bike or Andrew Short with Supercross.com. Your point works there.
Crush
Posts
20960
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
8/4/2014 6:23pm
newmann wrote:
If DeCoster had difficulties getting anything out of Suzuki Japan, how in the hell will anyone else?
Yeah it has sounded like they've not been the most cooperative factory at times, tho isn't the story with RCH that RC went straight to Japan and said "you owe me"?

The one thing you could say is that the yellow bikes seem like they've had a few more issues since the whole back team went to Orange. Not that Orange hasn't had some issues since....
BobbyM
Posts
21449
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
8/4/2014 6:25pm
Steve Matthes IS MOTOCROSS
brimx153
Posts
3338
Joined
5/3/2012
Location
IE
8/4/2014 6:36pm
maybe just maybe , Kenny likes the RCH bike better ,pit said last yr , after the MXDN , Ken wanted to leave , its not like he is riding for TM next yr ,his on the bike that has won the most chapionships since the 2000 s with a lot of different riders ,the bike all the pro s love , but yet people think this is a bad move ,I just don't get that ,

Post a reply to: Matthes is great for the sport

The Latest