Matthe's comment on Outdoor Nationals Drug Testing

10/21/2014 11:14pm Edited Date/Time 10/23/2014 6:36pm
http://pulpmxshow.com/sites/pulpmxshow.com/files/podcasts/141020_pulpmx…

26:12 in the broadcast. Exactly what I said months ago, and was ridiculed for. MX Sports' announcement of the 2014 USADA test program to racers a week before Glen Helen did not allow for a reasonable period to apply for TUEs for existing legitimate prescriptions. The USADA / WADA TUE process can take up to 4 months. As a consequence, no outdoor drug testing results were going to be valid and enforceable for 2014.
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hvaughn88
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10/22/2014 4:16am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2014 4:18am
When I heard that on the show, I was let down. I keep hoping this sport is going to step into the realm of the other major sports, as far as having their shit together and fans knowing what's going on, and then something like this happens. I'm sure the organizers are busting their ass, but it sure does seem like this sport is always in that "1 step forward, 2 steps back" mode.

I've almost reached the point that I think moto will just always fit in more with the entertainment field as opposed to the professional sports field.
Kawaboy14
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10/22/2014 5:10am
hvaughn88 wrote:
When I heard that on the show, I was let down. I keep hoping this sport is going to step into the realm of the other...
When I heard that on the show, I was let down. I keep hoping this sport is going to step into the realm of the other major sports, as far as having their shit together and fans knowing what's going on, and then something like this happens. I'm sure the organizers are busting their ass, but it sure does seem like this sport is always in that "1 step forward, 2 steps back" mode.

I've almost reached the point that I think moto will just always fit in more with the entertainment field as opposed to the professional sports field.
Exactly!

A knee jerk reaction to spend money in a way that could only harm the sport! It's ok to do things slow in this regard, they know how to be slow in many things, like raising rider payouts!
Kawaboy14
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10/22/2014 5:12am
Oh I forgot to compliment Matthews.....good job you finally said something intelligent! :0)
O___o
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10/22/2014 5:16am
Kawaboy14 wrote:
Exactly! A knee jerk reaction to spend money in a way that could only harm the sport! It's ok to do things slow in this regard...
Exactly!

A knee jerk reaction to spend money in a way that could only harm the sport! It's ok to do things slow in this regard, they know how to be slow in many things, like raising rider payouts!
but... it sells magazines...

The Shop

IWreckALot
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10/22/2014 5:29am
hvaughn88 wrote:
When I heard that on the show, I was let down. I keep hoping this sport is going to step into the realm of the other...
When I heard that on the show, I was let down. I keep hoping this sport is going to step into the realm of the other major sports, as far as having their shit together and fans knowing what's going on, and then something like this happens. I'm sure the organizers are busting their ass, but it sure does seem like this sport is always in that "1 step forward, 2 steps back" mode.

I've almost reached the point that I think moto will just always fit in more with the entertainment field as opposed to the professional sports field.
Kawaboy14 wrote:
Exactly! A knee jerk reaction to spend money in a way that could only harm the sport! It's ok to do things slow in this regard...
Exactly!

A knee jerk reaction to spend money in a way that could only harm the sport! It's ok to do things slow in this regard, they know how to be slow in many things, like raising rider payouts!
I think USADA/WADA or whoever it is probably comes in with an all or nothing attitude. Just speculating but it doesn't sound like they really give a shit if it's a major sport like MLB or a trivial "sport" like poker or bowling. If you agree to take them, you agree to take ALL of their rules.

Why did the AMA decide to go this route? It's beyond me. I think the accusations were getting piled on. Tony might have been the most visibly vocal person screaming about PED's but you know there were some other heavy hitters pressing the issue too.
holeshot100
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10/22/2014 5:47am
hvaughn88 wrote:
When I heard that on the show, I was let down. I keep hoping this sport is going to step into the realm of the other...
When I heard that on the show, I was let down. I keep hoping this sport is going to step into the realm of the other major sports, as far as having their shit together and fans knowing what's going on, and then something like this happens. I'm sure the organizers are busting their ass, but it sure does seem like this sport is always in that "1 step forward, 2 steps back" mode.

I've almost reached the point that I think moto will just always fit in more with the entertainment field as opposed to the professional sports field.
Kawaboy14 wrote:
Exactly! A knee jerk reaction to spend money in a way that could only harm the sport! It's ok to do things slow in this regard...
Exactly!

A knee jerk reaction to spend money in a way that could only harm the sport! It's ok to do things slow in this regard, they know how to be slow in many things, like raising rider payouts!
A couple genuine questions:
1. Does having drug testing bring in more outside sponsorship dollars and create a larger fan base? Why? Proven Examples?
2. Does having a sport with a credible drug testing program in place seen as value to outside sponsors?
The benefit from my view for drug testing is for the younger riders/their families / trainers as a deterrent to use performance enhancing drugs while maintaining "cleanliness" at the top level. A very worthwhile cause.

Not sure how incurring more expenses from a promoters point of view leads to higher payouts. Just saying. I really don't have an answer. Every kid can own a baseball, basketball, soccer ball, bicycle, football, but how many own motorcycles? Most things start from the ground up, and the foundation has gotten much smaller since the recession.
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10/22/2014 6:00am
http://pulpmxshow.com/sites/pulpmxshow.com/files/podcasts/141020_pulpmxshow_millsaps_windham_chisholm_keefer.mp3 26:12 in the broadcast. Exactly what I said months ago, and was ridiculed for. MX Sports' announcement of the 2014 USADA test program to racers...
http://pulpmxshow.com/sites/pulpmxshow.com/files/podcasts/141020_pulpmx…

26:12 in the broadcast. Exactly what I said months ago, and was ridiculed for. MX Sports' announcement of the 2014 USADA test program to racers a week before Glen Helen did not allow for a reasonable period to apply for TUEs for existing legitimate prescriptions. The USADA / WADA TUE process can take up to 4 months. As a consequence, no outdoor drug testing results were going to be valid and enforceable for 2014.
But wasn't drug testing already in place for the SX events? If so, those who "needed" certain prohibited substances had plenty of notice to get a TUE. If the TUE was issued for SX events, one has it for all events...
markit
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10/22/2014 6:09am
Yea thats what i want moto to turn into, bunch of candy asses
holeshot100
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10/22/2014 6:15am
If a sport can't "afford" to lose a "top player" and has to make a choice whether to enforce the rule it is a "No Win" situation. All it does is divide your "client base".

If you use an organization for your Doping Tests, are their rules the only rules to follow in regards to punishment?

Is it possible to make rules that won't affect the sport so badly, although the consequences are steep enough to adhere to the given policies?

If Championship contender rider missed 3-4 races(instead of a year or two) due to violating the rules, he would not have a chance of winning a championship and most likely not even a top three. If a racer outside the top 6 or 7 guys was found guilty, his chances of retaining a top tier ride would be significantly reduced. Some people might call it a slap on the wrist, but jeopardizing a top ride or championship would be enough to discourage the use.
Kawaboy14
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10/22/2014 6:17am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2014 6:18am
http://pulpmxshow.com/sites/pulpmxshow.com/files/podcasts/141020_pulpmxshow_millsaps_windham_chisholm_keefer.mp3 26:12 in the broadcast. Exactly what I said months ago, and was ridiculed for. MX Sports' announcement of the 2014 USADA test program to racers...
http://pulpmxshow.com/sites/pulpmxshow.com/files/podcasts/141020_pulpmx…

26:12 in the broadcast. Exactly what I said months ago, and was ridiculed for. MX Sports' announcement of the 2014 USADA test program to racers a week before Glen Helen did not allow for a reasonable period to apply for TUEs for existing legitimate prescriptions. The USADA / WADA TUE process can take up to 4 months. As a consequence, no outdoor drug testing results were going to be valid and enforceable for 2014.
Walter wrote:
But wasn't drug testing [i]already [/i]in place for the SX events? If so, those who "needed" certain prohibited substances had plenty of notice to get a...
But wasn't drug testing already in place for the SX events? If so, those who "needed" certain prohibited substances had plenty of notice to get a TUE. If the TUE was issued for SX events, one has it for all events...
Exactly, sx is doing the testing! All the more reason why I wouldn't have done it in the outdoors!
DC
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10/22/2014 6:32am
This is not true and I am pretty confused why Steve Matthes discussed this without asking me or an MX Sports Pro Racing official about it.

A TUE does take time, and because we announced it three weeks before the first race (not the week of), that's why they waited to test until Colorado, and we were considered a "national"-level as a first-year program by USADA in regards to TUE-related offenses.

Regardless, any positive test for steroids and blood-doping or any other illegal item that could not be defended by a TUE would have resulted in that person being immediately penalized. No one failed a test for that sort of PED.

Next year, it all counts from the start, full-status, and not having a TUE in time for something like a prescribed medication will not be a defense with USADA or WADA.

DC
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Kawaboy14
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10/22/2014 6:38am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2014 6:40am
Has there ever been any education/caution of the riders in regard to what could cause them to fail a test? As in: hey guys adder all is this or ibuprofen is that.....or is the program just handed to them and their own lawyers have to figure it all out?

Let's face it DC, the Stewart situation has demonstrated that something was wrong in the implementation OR they are just plain ignorant to the facts of the testing
hvaughn88
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10/22/2014 6:42am
DC wrote:
This is not true and I am pretty confused why Steve Matthes discussed this without asking me or an MX Sports Pro Racing official about it...
This is not true and I am pretty confused why Steve Matthes discussed this without asking me or an MX Sports Pro Racing official about it.

A TUE does take time, and because we announced it three weeks before the first race (not the week of), that's why they waited to test until Colorado, and we were considered a "national"-level as a first-year program by USADA in regards to TUE-related offenses.

Regardless, any positive test for steroids and blood-doping or any other illegal item that could not be defended by a TUE would have resulted in that person being immediately penalized. No one failed a test for that sort of PED.

Next year, it all counts from the start, full-status, and not having a TUE in time for something like a prescribed medication will not be a defense with USADA or WADA.

DC
MX Sports



Do you have any insight as to why James missed the end of the outdoor season?
O___o
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10/22/2014 6:44am
DC wrote:
This is not true and I am pretty confused why Steve Matthes discussed this without asking me or an MX Sports Pro Racing official about it...
This is not true and I am pretty confused why Steve Matthes discussed this without asking me or an MX Sports Pro Racing official about it.

A TUE does take time, and because we announced it three weeks before the first race (not the week of), that's why they waited to test until Colorado, and we were considered a "national"-level as a first-year program by USADA in regards to TUE-related offenses.

Regardless, any positive test for steroids and blood-doping or any other illegal item that could not be defended by a TUE would have resulted in that person being immediately penalized. No one failed a test for that sort of PED.

Next year, it all counts from the start, full-status, and not having a TUE in time for something like a prescribed medication will not be a defense with USADA or WADA.

DC
MX Sports



and he would've gotten away with it... if it wasn't for those damn vitards and that mangey mutt...

rooobie roobie roooooo
DC
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10/22/2014 6:44am
Kawaboy14,

We held an open meeting at Glen Helen on Friday for all riders and teams, invited them to set up personal meetings with race and testing officials and their team managers and trainers, and each of the top five guys were brought into the trailer with their managers and trainers (if they were available) to discuss what a TUE is, what additives and supplements they may need to check out the ingredients on, and provided a vast website to answer all of their questions.

At some point the athlete and his team have to take responsibility for educating themselves, and we did a lot to help them in these matters.

DC
MX Sports
Kawaboy14
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10/22/2014 6:51am
DC wrote:
Kawaboy14, We held an open meeting at Glen Helen on Friday for all riders and teams, invited them to set up personal meetings with race and...
Kawaboy14,

We held an open meeting at Glen Helen on Friday for all riders and teams, invited them to set up personal meetings with race and testing officials and their team managers and trainers, and each of the top five guys were brought into the trailer with their managers and trainers (if they were available) to discuss what a TUE is, what additives and supplements they may need to check out the ingredients on, and provided a vast website to answer all of their questions.

At some point the athlete and his team have to take responsibility for educating themselves, and we did a lot to help them in these matters.

DC
MX Sports
That's awesome and professional! I'm guessing he didn't show up to that meeting! If that's the case he still deserves whatever is coming his way.

I do (as an outsider looking in) think this is a waste of energy and resources for Mx.......purely from a business standpoint.

DC
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10/22/2014 7:00am
I do not know why James missed the last few races, I did not speak to him or his team, but he had his TUE from USADA and now has it for WADA. I don't know why he missed Monster Cup either but maybe he took a voluntary period of inaction in the hopes it would limit his ultimate penalty by the FIM to just 5 or 6 months and allow him to race again beginning in January.... That's only a guess.

And we did testing because all major teams asked for it, and we will continue.

DC
MX Sports
hvaughn88
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10/22/2014 7:04am
DC wrote:
I do not know why James missed the last few races, I did not speak to him or his team, but he had his TUE from...
I do not know why James missed the last few races, I did not speak to him or his team, but he had his TUE from USADA and now has it for WADA. I don't know why he missed Monster Cup either but maybe he took a voluntary period of inaction in the hopes it would limit his ultimate penalty by the FIM to just 5 or 6 months and allow him to race again beginning in January.... That's only a guess.

And we did testing because all major teams asked for it, and we will continue.

DC
MX Sports
Well, I appreciate the info. Your statement about the voluntary leave seems to be the most obvious answer, as well.
Crush
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10/22/2014 7:09am
DC wrote:
This is not true and I am pretty confused why Steve Matthes discussed this without asking me or an MX Sports Pro Racing official about it...
This is not true and I am pretty confused why Steve Matthes discussed this without asking me or an MX Sports Pro Racing official about it.

A TUE does take time, and because we announced it three weeks before the first race (not the week of), that's why they waited to test until Colorado, and we were considered a "national"-level as a first-year program by USADA in regards to TUE-related offenses.

Regardless, any positive test for steroids and blood-doping or any other illegal item that could not be defended by a TUE would have resulted in that person being immediately penalized. No one failed a test for that sort of PED.

Next year, it all counts from the start, full-status, and not having a TUE in time for something like a prescribed medication will not be a defense with USADA or WADA.

DC
MX Sports



DC,

Sorry, so you mean you guys didn't test till Colorado to give time to get TUEs sorted if need be?

And if so, did no one fail because TUEs were successfully lodged? Or did no one test positive at all regardless?

I'm pretty sure I read/listened to something saying that potentially James was thought to have tested positive again at Colorado for the same or similar thing....Maybe JT/Weege/Matthes mentioned it in a pod? But there was the thing of once you test positive it's all on hold till the first is resolved...
10/22/2014 7:13am
Kawaboy14 wrote:
Has there ever been any education/caution of the riders in regard to what could cause them to fail a test? As in: hey guys adder all...
Has there ever been any education/caution of the riders in regard to what could cause them to fail a test? As in: hey guys adder all is this or ibuprofen is that.....or is the program just handed to them and their own lawyers have to figure it all out?

Let's face it DC, the Stewart situation has demonstrated that something was wrong in the implementation OR they are just plain ignorant to the facts of the testing
It was brought up in rider's meetings over, and over, and over.

Crush
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10/22/2014 7:20am
hvaughn88 wrote:
Well, I appreciate the info. Your statement about the voluntary leave seems to be the most obvious answer, as well.
Is a suspension a suspension if you're not missing any events (that aren't happening) to be suspended from?

Is it chicken or egg? And why did he cross the road?
hvaughn88
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10/22/2014 7:23am
hvaughn88 wrote:
Well, I appreciate the info. Your statement about the voluntary leave seems to be the most obvious answer, as well.
Crush wrote:
Is a suspension a suspension if you're not missing any events (that aren't happening) to be suspended from? Is it chicken or egg? And why did...
Is a suspension a suspension if you're not missing any events (that aren't happening) to be suspended from?

Is it chicken or egg? And why did he cross the road?
I wonder the same thing. At this point, who the hell knows. I am almost to the point that I don't care
YZ324
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10/22/2014 7:29am
hvaughn88 wrote:
When I heard that on the show, I was let down. I keep hoping this sport is going to step into the realm of the other...
When I heard that on the show, I was let down. I keep hoping this sport is going to step into the realm of the other major sports, as far as having their shit together and fans knowing what's going on, and then something like this happens. I'm sure the organizers are busting their ass, but it sure does seem like this sport is always in that "1 step forward, 2 steps back" mode.

I've almost reached the point that I think moto will just always fit in more with the entertainment field as opposed to the professional sports field.
This seems to remind me of the motto of where I used to work.....

"We never have time to do it right, But we always have time to redo it"
MXD
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10/22/2014 7:40am
Crush wrote:
Is a suspension a suspension if you're not missing any events (that aren't happening) to be suspended from? Is it chicken or egg? And why did...
Is a suspension a suspension if you're not missing any events (that aren't happening) to be suspended from?

Is it chicken or egg? And why did he cross the road?
FreshTopEnd
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10/22/2014 7:45am
Is this where we cue the old scene with pitchforks, you know the ones people were shaking when they were clamoring for testing? Cause it sure looks like folks now are knocking e rust off of them to complain about testing.

Fickle.
FreshTopEnd
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10/22/2014 7:51am
hvaughn88 wrote:
Well, I appreciate the info. Your statement about the voluntary leave seems to be the most obvious answer, as well.
Crush wrote:
Is a suspension a suspension if you're not missing any events (that aren't happening) to be suspended from? Is it chicken or egg? And why did...
Is a suspension a suspension if you're not missing any events (that aren't happening) to be suspended from?

Is it chicken or egg? And why did he cross the road?
hvaughn88 wrote:
I wonder the same thing. At this point, who the hell knows. I am almost to the point that I don't care
You're misding the point; penalties are discretionary and the concern was that even if WADA didn't control testing and penalties for the outdoors, they would lower the boom more harshly if Stew disregarded the provisional given that the Wada rules suggest an athlete should/must stop competing even in events that Wada does not have jurisdiction over.
jndmx
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10/22/2014 8:04am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2014 8:05am
Is this where we cue the old scene with pitchforks, you know the ones people were shaking when they were clamoring for testing? Cause it sure...
Is this where we cue the old scene with pitchforks, you know the ones people were shaking when they were clamoring for testing? Cause it sure looks like folks now are knocking e rust off of them to complain about testing.

Fickle.
You can't be surprised by that at this point can you?

I mean you're a student of history right.....lol.
500guy
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10/22/2014 8:21am
I'm a little confused.

James didn't race the MEC Voluntarily ? And what about the whole deal with getting IV's between moto's ?

Seems about that time James and Malcolm both stopped racing.
DC
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10/22/2014 8:56am
They didn't test until Colorado because that's the race they chose and neither MX Sports nor the AMA nor any athletes or teams knew it was coming then, but we did know it would not be at the first two rounds minimum in order to allow the proper paperwork to be sorted and understood and filed by the teams, as USADA felt that was enough time.

Again, there was a late ramp-up because implementing the program took a great deal of time and resources, but I believe we did it right and it will be even better and easier to understand moving forward. But the WADA test results from way back in April and the FIM's provisional suspension brought into question the jurisdiction of that organization over a non-FIM series and the legal concepts of due process in U.S. law. When the decision was made to allow James to race so long as he had a license, it allowed him to compete in the AMA Pro Racing-sanctioned series. By that point he had a TUE from USADA and he now has one from WADA, for the same prescribed medication. What happens from here is up to the hearing that I believe is coming any day now, and I personally am hopeful we will see him back on the gate in January.

But back to the initial point: Regardless of what was said on PulpMX last night (and I am sure Steve had some sources that understood this differently than the reality of the process) the tests were valid and the penalties would have been valid for anyone who failed a USADA test (blood and urine) and either of the two races that they tested, for HGH, steroids, doping or any other of PED infractions that were beyond the prescription level.

DC
MX Sports

hvaughn88
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10/22/2014 8:59am
500guy wrote:
I'm a little confused. James didn't race the MEC Voluntarily ? And what about the whole deal with getting IV's between moto's ? Seems about that...
I'm a little confused.

James didn't race the MEC Voluntarily ? And what about the whole deal with getting IV's between moto's ?

Seems about that time James and Malcolm both stopped racing.
I'm curious about the IV deal, too

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