Posts
18
Joined
3/17/2014
Location
Keller, TX
US
Edited Date/Time
3/18/2014 1:53pm
I have been playing motocross games since EXCITEBIKE came out on Nintendo. MX Games have come a long way. I remember how captured I was the first time I played Ricky Carmichael's MX 2002. For that year, it was an awesome game, and it got great ratings. See here. http://www.ign.com/articles/2001/07/03/mx-2002-featuring-ricky-carmicha…. However, like many people I have been pretty disappointed at many points at the advances that the virtual MX world has made since. Some game aspects have moved the experience forward and kept with the times while others have not.
With that being said, Every time someone rags on ALIVE and pumps up REFLEX in reference to how the new SUPERCROSS game should be designed, I get annoyed. So... I am going to do a comparison between the two in discussing the upcoming game and what needs to really be focused on.
To start I have to be fair to the "REFLEXERS" and say that to some degree I understand the frustration with the absolutely horrific development process behind ALIVE. From a programming and game setup standpoint it completely failed. The outdoor levels are stupid for the most part (other than the JS7 outdoor track) and nobody who is a fan of racing dirt bikes wants to race their buddies online on some French track that doesn't exist anywhere in the world...Also, what the hell is a short track? Is this Mario Kart motocross? To me these things spell out lazy composition and they are a joke for something that was developed in 2011.
On top of this there is no story to ALIVE. You just start riding a 125 and try to progress to 250f and 450f. Also there is VERY little choice in bike mods in regards to suspension, engine tuning, etc. There is no realism to anything when it comes to having a "motocross experience." REFLEX IS NOT MUCH BETTER IN THIS REGARD BY THE WAY. As a mx rider myself, I think the progression from the 125 to 250 to 450 is a retarded Idea and shows a bit of ignorance. I know 2 strokers are outdated, but lets not forget a 125 is an old version of the 250f. Same class of bike people.
I guess Im glad they didn't go 125, 250, 250f, 450f, although it wouldn't have surprised me.
Okay, so for all you ALIVE bashers, I hope you feel a bit better. However, to act like REFLEX is a masterpiece and a much better game then ALIVE is a joke. The only thing REFLEX had going for it was that you could tell they took more time on the gameplay types and the tracks. Don't forget REFLEX was a finished game. ALIVE was not. THQ went bankrupt and all of us ALIVE fans were left stranded with half a game and the best tracks unavailable for online play with the 2 best supercross tracks (JS7) UN-RACEABLE PERIOD.
However, in my opinion ALIVE got it right where it counts. They got it right on the rider physics and realism. Now I know someone is going to swoop in and say something about all the "goon riding" but besides this you can't deny that the overall look of the riders is amazing. In talking about physics, REFLEX was a step in the right direction with the new controls and the ability to lean vs turn with the different sticks, but when it comes to scale REFLEX looks like a game from the early 2000's. They just don't feel realistic. REFLEX feels like you float through the air and the supercross tracks feel huge like a motocross track. This is where ALIVE took a step that no game in my opinion has ever accomplished thus far. For the first time ever all the jumps are actually scaled to size and you actually have to have some skill to hit them right on the supercross tracks. Despite the fact that the uploaded supercross tracks on ALIVE were actually arenacross sized tracks, they were headed in the right direction. You can't just blaze through them. They are technical enough that you have to find good lines and find a rhythm.
If I could say one thing to NORDIC GAMES it would be this. "Look, realism is what wins people in the world of gaming. Everyone is most infatuated with a gaming experience that's real. As long as the new game more effectively aims at this goal and takes the best elements of the MX vs ATV franchise, it will be a success. Alive was almost there at many points of the concept, if more time would've been spent on the gameplay options and if the game was actually finished it in my opinion could've been much more of a success. Oh and take ATV out of the franchise name and let another company rebuild the world of ATV racing."
Lastly, some tips to all you MX game designers who might happen to read this post.
-Improve the online gameplay and show world rankings based on a points system or something. Competition drives gaming. People need a goal or they will stop playing.
-Add more riders on supercross races. Chaos is fun in a game and it adds to the challenge. Plus 12 is not realistic for supercross anyways.
-Make sure supercross tracks are scaled correctly. Its normal for riders to cram together and crash on a starting corner and over jumps.
-Make supercross racing into a season where you can gain and lose sponsors and change teams based on your performance and how much they will pay you. Make riders have to compete and succeed at the amateur level at lorettas before they can run with the big boys. Also you need to have heats, LCQ's, and main events with the lap amounts correct depending on class and race.
-When you fall off the bike, there needs to be realistic injuries that cost money and make you sit out of races, or at least make the rider go over to his bike after he falls, pick it up, and crank it. Making a rider appear back on the bike he just destroyed over a jump is stupid. If race car games can depict car damage, and you can code the track rutts to change as the bikes run around them, then you can implement this feature on the bikes and riders.
-ADD A TRACK FORGE ARENA WHERE RIDERS CAN BUILD AND DESIGN THEIR OWN TRACKS AND RACE THEIR FRIENDS ON THEM.
I firmly believe that someone, somewhere will start an MX franchise that does all the things above that a majority of the community is wanting. Id love to see an amazing Motocross game with much attention to detail and realism. It would be a breath of fresh air to see that happen on a game for the XBOX ONE and PS4. And let me tell you it would make a ton of money. Its like the difference between Tony Hawk and Skate. SKATE stepped it up in virtual skateboarding. Who will be the first to do it in the virtual gaming world of MX? And please don't talk about the MX simulator. Despite the decent physics and realistic whips, the graphics are so horrific it gives me a headache.
Drops the mic and walks away...
-Russell D
With that being said, Every time someone rags on ALIVE and pumps up REFLEX in reference to how the new SUPERCROSS game should be designed, I get annoyed. So... I am going to do a comparison between the two in discussing the upcoming game and what needs to really be focused on.
To start I have to be fair to the "REFLEXERS" and say that to some degree I understand the frustration with the absolutely horrific development process behind ALIVE. From a programming and game setup standpoint it completely failed. The outdoor levels are stupid for the most part (other than the JS7 outdoor track) and nobody who is a fan of racing dirt bikes wants to race their buddies online on some French track that doesn't exist anywhere in the world...Also, what the hell is a short track? Is this Mario Kart motocross? To me these things spell out lazy composition and they are a joke for something that was developed in 2011.
On top of this there is no story to ALIVE. You just start riding a 125 and try to progress to 250f and 450f. Also there is VERY little choice in bike mods in regards to suspension, engine tuning, etc. There is no realism to anything when it comes to having a "motocross experience." REFLEX IS NOT MUCH BETTER IN THIS REGARD BY THE WAY. As a mx rider myself, I think the progression from the 125 to 250 to 450 is a retarded Idea and shows a bit of ignorance. I know 2 strokers are outdated, but lets not forget a 125 is an old version of the 250f. Same class of bike people.
I guess Im glad they didn't go 125, 250, 250f, 450f, although it wouldn't have surprised me.
Okay, so for all you ALIVE bashers, I hope you feel a bit better. However, to act like REFLEX is a masterpiece and a much better game then ALIVE is a joke. The only thing REFLEX had going for it was that you could tell they took more time on the gameplay types and the tracks. Don't forget REFLEX was a finished game. ALIVE was not. THQ went bankrupt and all of us ALIVE fans were left stranded with half a game and the best tracks unavailable for online play with the 2 best supercross tracks (JS7) UN-RACEABLE PERIOD.
However, in my opinion ALIVE got it right where it counts. They got it right on the rider physics and realism. Now I know someone is going to swoop in and say something about all the "goon riding" but besides this you can't deny that the overall look of the riders is amazing. In talking about physics, REFLEX was a step in the right direction with the new controls and the ability to lean vs turn with the different sticks, but when it comes to scale REFLEX looks like a game from the early 2000's. They just don't feel realistic. REFLEX feels like you float through the air and the supercross tracks feel huge like a motocross track. This is where ALIVE took a step that no game in my opinion has ever accomplished thus far. For the first time ever all the jumps are actually scaled to size and you actually have to have some skill to hit them right on the supercross tracks. Despite the fact that the uploaded supercross tracks on ALIVE were actually arenacross sized tracks, they were headed in the right direction. You can't just blaze through them. They are technical enough that you have to find good lines and find a rhythm.
If I could say one thing to NORDIC GAMES it would be this. "Look, realism is what wins people in the world of gaming. Everyone is most infatuated with a gaming experience that's real. As long as the new game more effectively aims at this goal and takes the best elements of the MX vs ATV franchise, it will be a success. Alive was almost there at many points of the concept, if more time would've been spent on the gameplay options and if the game was actually finished it in my opinion could've been much more of a success. Oh and take ATV out of the franchise name and let another company rebuild the world of ATV racing."
Lastly, some tips to all you MX game designers who might happen to read this post.
-Improve the online gameplay and show world rankings based on a points system or something. Competition drives gaming. People need a goal or they will stop playing.
-Add more riders on supercross races. Chaos is fun in a game and it adds to the challenge. Plus 12 is not realistic for supercross anyways.
-Make sure supercross tracks are scaled correctly. Its normal for riders to cram together and crash on a starting corner and over jumps.
-Make supercross racing into a season where you can gain and lose sponsors and change teams based on your performance and how much they will pay you. Make riders have to compete and succeed at the amateur level at lorettas before they can run with the big boys. Also you need to have heats, LCQ's, and main events with the lap amounts correct depending on class and race.
-When you fall off the bike, there needs to be realistic injuries that cost money and make you sit out of races, or at least make the rider go over to his bike after he falls, pick it up, and crank it. Making a rider appear back on the bike he just destroyed over a jump is stupid. If race car games can depict car damage, and you can code the track rutts to change as the bikes run around them, then you can implement this feature on the bikes and riders.
-ADD A TRACK FORGE ARENA WHERE RIDERS CAN BUILD AND DESIGN THEIR OWN TRACKS AND RACE THEIR FRIENDS ON THEM.
I firmly believe that someone, somewhere will start an MX franchise that does all the things above that a majority of the community is wanting. Id love to see an amazing Motocross game with much attention to detail and realism. It would be a breath of fresh air to see that happen on a game for the XBOX ONE and PS4. And let me tell you it would make a ton of money. Its like the difference between Tony Hawk and Skate. SKATE stepped it up in virtual skateboarding. Who will be the first to do it in the virtual gaming world of MX? And please don't talk about the MX simulator. Despite the decent physics and realistic whips, the graphics are so horrific it gives me a headache.
Drops the mic and walks away...
-Russell D
- I very much prefer Reflex's physics, it's light years ahead of Alive in my opinion.
- People don't want realism necessarily, they want fun. Refer to MX Simulator.
- I don't really care about career modes or pick-up-your bike animations. After an hour or two, online play is where it's at.
Bottom line for me: If it's similar to Reflex, I'll go buy an xBox to play it. If it's Alive v2, I won't bother.
The Shop
However, I just don't think the demand for a game like this is high enough to justify the work that would be required.
http://forum.nordicgames.at/showthread.php?178156-MX-vs-ATV/page129
I don't understand why every one hates on alive though. If you can get passed its faults its great as far as racing and realism goes. Reflex feels like Im riding on snow and more arcady in general. I enjoy both but play Alive way more. Cant wait to see what this next game is going to be like.
Yup.
A twenty man gate would be neat, but it's not realistic. With Reflex online I'd usually play against just 4 or 5 others, and even that number took 5-10 minutes to gather. Any more time is just not fun. There simply aren't enough players to draw from.
These next-gen games with the best graphics always seem to affect my head the most. I felt physically ill the first few times I played Halo 3. Speaking of Halo 3, it pretty much ruled online console gaming for three years, and it did it because it was super solid up and down, they created the perfect community, and people stuck around. That's what keeps most people from trading in a game after a month.
I think Rainbow, wherever they are, needs to get friendly with the MXSim people, whoever they are, and combine games. The physics of one and the polish and playability of the other. MXSim minus the sim is where mx games need to be to be most successful, is what I guess. I tried the demo for Sim and a) apparently my pc couldn't handle it, and b) I didn't know what the fuck I was doing and it was a pain in the A and I quit.
Neither Reflex or Alive provide realistic physics but creating a physics engine that represents motocross on the budget that developers have to work with on a motocross game is impossible. Game developers should focus on fun, semi realistic physics with real tracks if possible and a real representation of SX and MX seasons with points, qualifying, contracts, all things that game developers could implement more easily to make it fun and try to translate that online as well. All that is easier then creating a realistic physics engine which is near impossible under a budget for a game that won't sell well anyway.
A game with reflexs' (or better if possible) physics
Supercross and Motocross Series
Qualifying/Gate Pick
Points
Ability to apply this online
Lose the snow and bamboo tracks and huge jumps
This would sell and be sufficient
Alive sucked. That was it's biggest flaw. Add more tracks to that shit sandwich and it's still a shit sandwhich.
Back to your original question, will MX vs ATV SX do it? No. I have zero faith in the creators of that series.
I hope they prove me wrong.
i'm pinning my hopes on mxgp looks like they have got the formula right just hope it play as good as it looks
real tracks real riders, no snow covered bullshit tracks lol
alive is a pos that tried to appeal to a mass market but ended up alienating the die hard fans (maybe it appeal to 4-stoke riders but it bores the crap out of me)
Im just hoping it has really good track deformation like Reflex did. From the previews, it looks pretty weak.
I know MXGP wont have every feature we want in a MX game, but it looks to have most of them.
Here's a short vid of the Thrilla at the Dilla back before there were some changes made to the track.
It's about as realistic as mad skills...
At least Mad Skills doesn't have a wrecking ball perk
Pit Row
1. Getting bumped by another rider doesn't send you three lanes across the stadium
2. Supercross tracks felt more difficult and required brakes and rhythm
3. Reflex felt better with traction and gravity; Alive felt like you could float for days and quintuple jumps.
Alive > Reflex (IMO)
The alpha has a 99.99% chance of release in April.
Go to the forums to see development. I think you might have to post to see the work in progress threads, but there are 2 videos on YouTube uploaded by PiBoSo.
Edit: I should add that this is going to be another simulator that looks very promising to be an alternate choice to MX Simulator.
As far as arcade games go, MXGP looks like it's going to be sweet! I personally can't wait for that one.
Post a reply to: MX games need a major overhaul. Will MX vs ATV Supercross do it?