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> "williamsmotowerx wrote: here's a quiz kawi... how do you know how much slack to put in chain? "
Very good question about knowing how to adjust a chain and he's right in "I wouldn't hire you..." That's not a "hater" answer, not a personal assault he's just stating that nobody answered how to adjust a chain. The reason he asked (I'm assuming) is because knowing how would tell someone that you have a technical understanding of what you are doing - adjusting the chain. Compress the rear suspension (use a tie-down) until you have the rear axle, the swing arm pivot and the countershaft in a straight line - now adjust the chain to no slack, you need to really think about where/what no slack is. Now release the rear suspension. So now with the bike on a stand (?) you can observe where the chain is at a "known" point. Two fingers, four beer caps, does not matter what you use at that point, you just need to be accurate and measure at the same place / same dimension.
Oh and "go to college" and find a job to make the most money you can, in my opinion - fail. Main root cause of the upside down economy now is everyone wants to make the most money they can - then spend the least they have to. Some people need to make things, like wrenching on motorcycles. Figure out what you like to do, figure out how you can incorporate that into making a living - the money will come somewhere in optimizing the equation. Of course that may take you entire life time....
What would I do if i could do it over again? I've enjoyed working in a dealership, but after seeing all my high school friends graduating college or having good paying jobs while I'm making a few dollars over minimum wage an hour? I'd have went to a regular college or gotten into a high paying field (like HVAC). I contemplate going to a community college or getting some construction job that pays $20/hr all the time.
The Shop
I HATED everything about school. From high school through college it always made me cringe. I am lucky in that we have a family business I took an interest in when I was a Fairley young guy (15 to 16), and my parents guided me on how to get where I needed to be to eventually run the show. (Still not there yet, but I have a feeling the day when pops call it quits is coming)
But my real dream was to be a dairy farmer. There was nothing I loved more than working on the farm. From driving tractors, to barn chores, it’s all I wanted to do. But in the back of my mind I knew I did not want to work for 10 bucks an hour forever.
So college it was, first a 2 year school to get my grades up, then a university down south. I majored in our family business (Insurance and Risk Management) Received my bachelors, came home and started selling commercial insurance for the old man, we just ran my numbers yesterday and I have a book of $950,000 that I built over the last 4 years. (I live at the top of New York, above Syracuse; I have to drive a couple hours to get to any real nice accounts.) I can’t stress this enough, I hated school. But I am glad I stayed in.
Yea, I am pumped with my day job, I enjoy helping people whether its saving them money on their insurance, building a better program than they currently have or showing up at a house fire where a family has lost everything, that part of it is all great, but what I think is even cooler, and to go along with what Walter is saying, I bought beef cows this past spring and I am trying to build a small farm from scratch on my grandfathers old farm that has not been used since the 70's.
I would not be living this way had I not gone through college, sure I would have a job as its a family business, but I can guarantee I wouldn’t have done what I have in the past 4 years.
Stay in college man. Then start looking for a job in the industry. Your dreams will come true before you know it. Just my .02
A college degree isn't what is once was and if you really want to make money, you need to major in something specific.
So many kids now are just going through college to earn a degree. I can't tell you how many times i've heard students around campus say they just picked what they thought was the easiest major (recreation and tourism, english, public relations, business, etc.) they graduate and find out they can't get a job because their degrees are so general that they really have no specific knowledge that pertains to an applicable career. Most of theses students would have been better off going to trade school and learning a skill worthwile.
College is an investment to the future. Job trends don't lie. degrees that involve technology, engineering, petroleum, sciences are always going to be in demand.
Experience is more important than any degree but certain companies do want a degree (Fortune 500's for example)
Engineering and the Hard Sciences are about the only degrees that have any worth IMO
Business, Computer Science ...you don't need a degree to work in "business" unless you're an actuary and you don't need one to be a computer programmer (note, computer science ISNT engineering)
I work at a dealer, and two of our techs went to MMI and both feel it was a waste of money for what you get out of it.
You definitely get what take from any school. I've got a friend whose a mechanic in the military, with a masters degree in liberal arts (that the government paid for) and I love the guy, but he's a blooming idiot. He can get by as a basic mechanic, but man, I'd hate to ever see him as a teacher or working on aircraft. If you're willing to put in the time, it seems you can get the paper from most anywhere. Some people are never going to be anything but lifetime novices, but I find it alarming how many of them can have degrees. I have another friend who just went back to school at 44 years old and got an associates in IT, only to find out it's absolutely worthless. Then there's the fact that the dude still doesn't know shit about computers. But he's got paper that says he does.
I never went to school a day after 12th grade, so maybe I'm biased. It's a really tough job market out there and I can honestly say I don't believe degrees from just about anywhere make that big of an impact currently. Many times when I was younger I've found myself working minimum wage jobs right beside people with 4 year degrees and 80 grand worth of student loans staring them in the face. The idea that a bachelors degree is going to guarantee you and 80K a year job is a total myth. Same goes for the MMI pledge. They may get you a job in a shop, but most likely it's a minimum wage service writer position.
MMI has zero requirements to get into the school. They say high school diploma or GED but I knew a bunch of guys that didn't have that and got in. One guy had no clue at all how to use a calculator! During theory he actually had to take notes on how to use one!
MMI pushes students through the courses at a rapid rate and whoever owns MMI is extremely rich! They certainly weren't putting money back into the school equipment! Monday thru Friday there is a morning classes, afternoon, and night class. There had to be at least 500 students per session. It's more like herding cattle that all have 30K strapped on their backs waiting at the door!
to the dealership i go... thats how i see it now
now all those douches are occupying wall street!!
Pit Row
And don't relegate yourself to just the shop. If you truly aspire to own/run your own place someday, try to learn all the aspects, parts, sales, finance, everything.
I spent 14 years in the powersports industry and the last six selling construction equipment parts, using skills learned in powersports and I have waaay more time to enjoy moto now than when I worked in that business. And I make way more money too. Sure, construction equipment is boring compared to helping someone deck out their new moto ride, but there's definitely something to be said for never working Saturdays and actually being paid enough to afford to buy that new 9 thousand dollar bike.
Seeing that the Euro bikes always have some weird design, I've got to think this is a trick question.
I would investigate where the front sprocket is in relation to the swing arm pivot point before answering...
I had to do a carb job on one at one point while i was at a dealership. That was almost an 8 hour job for that pos. They have that carb pacakage so effing tight and wedged in there its a trip taking them in and out. of course half of the dam bike has to come apart to allow enough access to work with them, and then of course the stupid main frame tube allows about 1-2" of clearance to get the things out. Shit i'm getting pissed just thinking about how much that sucked! I told my service manager I would refuse to ever do that same job again....he laughed and told me he had allowed that bike in especially for me as a "test of patience." He then told me he always turns those bikes away because he couldn't ever bill for the amount of time needed for something as simple as a carb clean on them
The school is EH!. They will give you the basic knowledge of how motors and electrical work.
All the training aids are trashed. You never get to actually run anything you are working on.
Most of the teachers are outdated. (Great people but outdated due to technology advances on the new bikes)
They do not help you get a job in the industry At ALL. And it is very very true that they just basically pass everyone.
This gives them a bad name in the real world. Shops will not hire you just because you went to MMI simply because most of them have hired MMI grads before and they were useless.
When I graduated I looked for jobs at dealerships. They wanted me to start as basically a tire changer and pay $9-$10 an hour not even put me on flat rate doing real jobs. So I ended up working outside the industy and doing motor work on the side.
One of the dealerships I applied to and offered me $9 an hour, ended up sending me valve jobs because their mechanics couldn't do it.
MMI is great at giving you a knowledge base but unfortunately in the real world it's all about who you know not where you went to school.
They did help my son get a job, though. Maybe if you are a standout over the other schlepps that they push through, they'll go out of their way to help you a little. It helped that his transcripts showed what they did and indicated perfect attendance. I'm sure that means something to prospective employers, (in fact, he never missed a day of school K-12).
Above all, like has been said, real world experience is the only thing that will make you a real "mechanic".
In 2008 I wrench full time for a pro rider that had a unlimited budget. Check out the attention to detail on the 250F race bike I built and this was the day after a mud race in Maine! I even made handcrafted parts for it, hose holder under the carb. How much do you think this bike costs at retail price?
On the side you can't see, it had a full Yosh titanium dual exhaust system, Factory Connection A kit suspension, fast lines, wave rotors, anodized brake line bolts, Hinson full clutch, anodized engine plugs, FC linkage, Twin Air aluminum cage and filter, and titanium rear brake clevis. The motor from PR2 was $4500 and pushing 46 horse on the dyno! So how much do you think this race bike would cost to buy at full retail?
It was a nice having my own work area and unlimited budget, but my pay was only $400 a week. I did have benefits of housing, car, food and 10% winnings, which wasn't much at all. I actually loved this job for a while but ended up being impossible to work with the rider so I quit.
Check out the view from the shop! At one point I was responsible for 12 bikes! These bikes were old practice bikes besides the one closest being built.
I basically worked all day long but didn't have set hours and had a lot of fun riding here and there.
If I wanted to wrench for a rider again, I'd either be a race bike mechanic or a practice bike mechanic but not both. One year I just did Supercross on the weekends and I liked that a lot. Supercross is much easier to do than outdoors. Don't even have to clean air filters!
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