Lucas Oil Nationals need some work.......

Indy mxer
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8/28/2016 10:24am
After watching every race on tv and attending the Ironman yesterday, I've come to the conclusion the Outdoors need some tweeking, at the least.
Now I'm not saying we need a NASCAR chase format, although I think it should be on the table for discussion. But we need something to create a little drama at the end of the season.

At the race yesterday we were sitting in the back corner of the track, by the 180 degree turn after the big uphill triple. A number of times we saw many of the top 6 or 7 riders, including Tomac, Barcia and Andersen look back as they exited the turn to see where the other rider was. They seemed content to just ride hard enough to stay in that position. imo.
And I think the results support that, there was very little finish order change from the first to second moto.

Now, I understand that there wasn't much to race for. So I don't blame the riders for just wanting to finish out a long brutal season. And there was some good racing at times in the 250 class. But as much as I love the sport and the great facility Ken has built, that is just an hour and half form my house, the 450 race was a snoozer. I felt like I went just to watch them ride around.

I feel it's time for the powers that be do what NASCAR did a few years ago to try and improve the product.
And yes I know this isn't car racing.

Bring together DC/MX Sports, the OEM's, riders, teams, and promoters, and just brainstorm ideas to see if they can make the racing better. They do a great job with all that goes into the presentation. The place looks great on race day and it's run very well.
I know that the rider plays such a large role that it's hard to to get good bar to action. But the racing needs help imo.

In the group I mentioned there are a lot of really smart people that care about the sport. And they may just come up with some good ideas.

Anyway, just a thought.

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hillbilly
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8/28/2016 10:35am
Good place to glance back at what was the last chance for paybacks from previous run ins.

I think in 5 yrs with sx going 22 races the outdoors could be something the top guys avoid if the factories get tired of the logistics it takes to do them.
gt80rider
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8/28/2016 10:37am
It's not the fault of the series that "some" riders didn't give 100 percent yesterday, that is completely on the riders... But that is what separates guys like tomac from the goat.... The goat didn't give a dern if it was the first practice at Anaheim, or the last moto of the outdoors, he always went out to mentally destroy the field....
8/28/2016 10:49am
I think the series needs an overhaul to be honest.

For the Fans, the Teams, and the riders. I LOATHE SX, let's make that clear, but the current set up of the Nationals with so little money, cross country trips several times/season, and facilities that are often not up to standards that modern fans and participants expect, needs to change.

All things must adapt to the times, and I feel like this series is going to lose relevance quickly if some changes are not made to make it more desirable for all involved. Especially given that Monster and FELD seem to be pushing ahead to corner the market.
Shaned9326
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8/28/2016 10:50am
Just watch the boys from across the pond next weekend as I'm sure they will be pinning regardless weather anyone other than cooper wants to race or not!! I love Ana nationals more than anything but the Mxgp racing has been on another level all year IMO!! Just hope tomac and them bring something next week for da boys!!

The Shop

RG1
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8/28/2016 10:58am
The racing just seems to be boring to be honest. The gaps are huge between the riders and there is minimal excitement in each race. I don't really know what it is, maybe it's the way the tracks are prepped, I'm not sure, but it's pretty difficult to watch
jmx411
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8/28/2016 11:06am
I didn't get to a national this year but I will say the racing was a snooze fest this year. I use to love weege and Langston but their announcing made it seem like they were even bored. The tv coverage has went down IMO.

Maybe the young bucks coming up will bring some excitement back but the Nationals really seemed half done this year.
8/28/2016 11:09am
get some better coverage of the races for a start , if nobody can see the races it doesnt matter how the racing is
downard254
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8/28/2016 11:12am
I know they say a pro track is supposed to be difficult, but the ruts are so deep and long, that the riders seem to be racing the track more than the other riders. I can remember Unadilla years ago, when it was just a GP track and it was grass during practice. I don't remember the track rutting up so much. That being said, there were a multitude of lines you could choose from. Railing an outside, cutting in, squaring a corner. The riders could spend more time attacking another rider vs. trying to hold a line through a long rut. I mean let's face it, once into the rut in the turn, you are committed to that rut until it ends. Now, I like a rough track, but I want rough and chop, just not mile long ruts.
Sully22
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8/28/2016 11:19am Edited Date/Time 8/28/2016 11:19am
I thought the 250's were exciting about 1/2 - 2/3 if the way through, then kinda petered out. 450's, boring after round 1-2, except for southwick.
yak651
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8/28/2016 11:34am
Would've been more exciting with Kenny on that RM250!
Park Boys
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8/28/2016 11:39am Edited Date/Time 8/28/2016 11:51am
The series biggest problem is always the same. Supercross hurts to many riders and then Motocross hurts some more.
731chopper
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8/28/2016 11:39am
The equipment is too good in my opinion. The first thing that should be changed and it would be so easy to do is limit the displacement in the 450 class. Make it a max 300cc engine size. Of course they'd no longer call it the 450 class. Just call it the Motocross class and then the Jr Motocross, Small Bore Motocross or whatever you want to call the now 250 class.
8/28/2016 11:40am
downard254 wrote:
I know they say a pro track is supposed to be difficult, but the ruts are so deep and long, that the riders seem to be...
I know they say a pro track is supposed to be difficult, but the ruts are so deep and long, that the riders seem to be racing the track more than the other riders. I can remember Unadilla years ago, when it was just a GP track and it was grass during practice. I don't remember the track rutting up so much. That being said, there were a multitude of lines you could choose from. Railing an outside, cutting in, squaring a corner. The riders could spend more time attacking another rider vs. trying to hold a line through a long rut. I mean let's face it, once into the rut in the turn, you are committed to that rut until it ends. Now, I like a rough track, but I want rough and chop, just not mile long ruts.
Part of what I used to like - going back some years - was the tracks were actually DIFFERENT. These days they all seem to be prepped the same, from one week to the next you don't see much difference, and as you say the ruts make it slot car racing.

What ever happened to a hard packed track once in a while? Dating myself but Calrsbad and the like made for some good racing. Soft one week, hard the next. SX is no better, same every week.

PastranaWho
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8/28/2016 11:42am Edited Date/Time 8/28/2016 12:24pm
downard254 wrote:
I know they say a pro track is supposed to be difficult, but the ruts are so deep and long, that the riders seem to be...
I know they say a pro track is supposed to be difficult, but the ruts are so deep and long, that the riders seem to be racing the track more than the other riders. I can remember Unadilla years ago, when it was just a GP track and it was grass during practice. I don't remember the track rutting up so much. That being said, there were a multitude of lines you could choose from. Railing an outside, cutting in, squaring a corner. The riders could spend more time attacking another rider vs. trying to hold a line through a long rut. I mean let's face it, once into the rut in the turn, you are committed to that rut until it ends. Now, I like a rough track, but I want rough and chop, just not mile long ruts.
I agree, tracks for the ama nationals lack variety. They all breakdown the same way, long deep ruts. It seems only a few can go fast on them and the tiptoeing around the track makes for boring racing. . I enjoy the variety of the GP tracks, it challenges the riders and its more unpredictable. My question is why are the ama tracks breaking down the same way (long deep ruts) i dont remember it being like that a few years back???
Motofinne
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8/28/2016 11:54am
I would say that the tracks you have or the way they are all similarly prepped is the issue.

They are all roughly the same and it shows when the riders are actually finishing in roughly the same positions in every race except Southwick.

And then the second obvious thing is the production value(that has steadily gone downhill, GPs have already passed US nationals in that case) and the coverage for anyone outside the US. But i have gone on and on about that for such a long time that i'm sure you know what i think of it if you have read my thoughts about it before.
Clutchy
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8/28/2016 11:57am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2016 5:17am
More laps.
Insider347
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8/28/2016 11:58am
I'd rather see close action and passing than watch riders navigate long deep ruts all day. Ruts are a part of mx but if track prep throughout the day makes for better racing then I say, do it.
Jimmy_Sloan
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8/28/2016 11:58am
The chase format should not even be an option. That's like putting a band-aid on cancer; it will not cure the problem. The problem as I see it, are the tracks which often become one-lined, and they've added too many sx style jumps. It doesn't seem like they have the depth of the GP circuit which has a variety of tracks and conditions. You also have huge gaps between riders that can afford elite training programs and those who can't, which these days, seems to start at the amateur level. In the end, there will always be a talent divide as well. Guys like KR, Tomac, and Dungey will always be just a bit better not just because of their dedication, but because they are super talented. It's always been that way.
Insider347
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8/28/2016 12:08pm
I like the ideas Clutchy. Starts are such a huge part of the race and exciting why not have more. Could shorten motos a little. They have to be at least 20 minutes so if u have a bad start you have time to charge but there is some room to shorten motos but have more of them.
Xeno
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8/28/2016 12:20pm
I enjoy the TV coverage- and they do a good job of bringing the excitement to the viewers.

Shoot, yesterday I saw mechanics frantically working on Andrew Short's bike at the starting line, just before the gate drop. Then I saw Shorty rip a holeshot to start his last-ever AMA National moto. Then, after his shock failed, I watched a pit report with Andrew where he explained his DNF.
That is not boring to me. That is not a 'snooze fest'.
Bearuno
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8/28/2016 12:36pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2016 12:38pm
Where were all you sad wankers that want to 'ef' with the sport, for your entertainment, when McGrath dominated in SX, RC got 2 unbeaten seasons and Bubba got one?

And, what's the bet you probably worship them?

Seriously, if it's just too boring for you, stop watching / attending the races, and watch crap like NASCAR and mainstream ball sports.

The sport has been bastardized hugely as it is. Some of you might just learn a bit if you went looking for pictures and videos of major races, decades ago, when they were 40 + 2 x 2 Moto's. Huge spectator attendance.

I guess it just might be down to tiny attention spans. Perhaps most of you should just play computer games.

Sad bastards, so many of you
steve_97060
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8/28/2016 12:44pm
didn't you know, Rutocross is the new thing, it's gunna be yuuuge....
Indy mxer
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8/28/2016 12:58pm
downard254 wrote:
I know they say a pro track is supposed to be difficult, but the ruts are so deep and long, that the riders seem to be...
I know they say a pro track is supposed to be difficult, but the ruts are so deep and long, that the riders seem to be racing the track more than the other riders. I can remember Unadilla years ago, when it was just a GP track and it was grass during practice. I don't remember the track rutting up so much. That being said, there were a multitude of lines you could choose from. Railing an outside, cutting in, squaring a corner. The riders could spend more time attacking another rider vs. trying to hold a line through a long rut. I mean let's face it, once into the rut in the turn, you are committed to that rut until it ends. Now, I like a rough track, but I want rough and chop, just not mile long ruts.
I agree, tracks for the ama nationals lack variety. They all breakdown the same way, long deep ruts. It seems only a few can go fast...
I agree, tracks for the ama nationals lack variety. They all breakdown the same way, long deep ruts. It seems only a few can go fast on them and the tiptoeing around the track makes for boring racing. . I enjoy the variety of the GP tracks, it challenges the riders and its more unpredictable. My question is why are the ama tracks breaking down the same way (long deep ruts) i dont remember it being like that a few years back???
Agree. They need to prep more. I think the long deep ruts make for poor racing and they do seem to get guys hurt.

And whether you like Nascar or not. They saw a problem and brought together all the invested parties to try and solve it. I just think MX should do something like that.

You can say all you want about action behind the gate. But the racing gets boring most of the time after a few laps. Especially in the 450 class

And yesterday, there was no reason for a rider to push it. I saw very little entertainment value in the 450 race, unless you're KR fan.
Jon_Haynes
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8/28/2016 1:02pm
I blame the ruts it limits the imagination of finding good lines to make up time on fellow racers. today is pick a rut and don't tip over. MM25 and CP377 can still find good lines but not very many others and yes they are all faster than me so what do I know.
WhiteTaco
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8/28/2016 1:04pm
Bearuno wrote:
Where were all you sad wankers that want to 'ef' with the sport, for your entertainment, when McGrath dominated in SX, RC got 2 unbeaten seasons...
Where were all you sad wankers that want to 'ef' with the sport, for your entertainment, when McGrath dominated in SX, RC got 2 unbeaten seasons and Bubba got one?

And, what's the bet you probably worship them?

Seriously, if it's just too boring for you, stop watching / attending the races, and watch crap like NASCAR and mainstream ball sports.

The sport has been bastardized hugely as it is. Some of you might just learn a bit if you went looking for pictures and videos of major races, decades ago, when they were 40 + 2 x 2 Moto's. Huge spectator attendance.

I guess it just might be down to tiny attention spans. Perhaps most of you should just play computer games.

Sad bastards, so many of you
X2
MX_Andrew83
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8/28/2016 1:20pm
I did some napping while watching some of the Nationals this years, I was ashamed of myself but the racing was kind of lame
Shaned9326
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8/28/2016 1:47pm
Bearuno wrote:
Where were all you sad wankers that want to 'ef' with the sport, for your entertainment, when McGrath dominated in SX, RC got 2 unbeaten seasons...
Where were all you sad wankers that want to 'ef' with the sport, for your entertainment, when McGrath dominated in SX, RC got 2 unbeaten seasons and Bubba got one?

And, what's the bet you probably worship them?

Seriously, if it's just too boring for you, stop watching / attending the races, and watch crap like NASCAR and mainstream ball sports.

The sport has been bastardized hugely as it is. Some of you might just learn a bit if you went looking for pictures and videos of major races, decades ago, when they were 40 + 2 x 2 Moto's. Huge spectator attendance.

I guess it just might be down to tiny attention spans. Perhaps most of you should just play computer games.

Sad bastards, so many of you
Get a life!!
10000hrs
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8/28/2016 2:13pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2016 2:15pm
For me, the only race that wasnt boring, was Southwick.I dont think it was a coincidence that Southwick had no doubles or triples. All the time you are on the ground is potentially available to accelerate or brake more than your opponnent.

For me mx is line selection, inside out, outside in, rail the outside, hug the inside. Ruts take all that away.

Finally, what do you have to do to get fired as the director of a sports broadcast? I'll suggest missing the start of a race cuz you were on commercial break should be a fire-able event. Christ, all you have to do is watch for the 30 second girl!
zehn
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8/28/2016 2:24pm
VitalMX, the place for people who hate motocross racing

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