Looking for dirty riding on the track stories

Edited Date/Time 9/30/2014 11:17am
I write books about motorcycle racing (TT Full Throttle, and Thunder Road - release date 2015) and the publisher has asked me to write a MG (middle grade) book about motocross racing. I’m totally psyched because it’s different to the Isle of Man TT Road Races. I’m doing my research, reading books, talking to riders, watching videos and have attended the Amateur & Pro Parts Canada TransCan at Waltons. I’m hoping you guys can help me with something…

One of the themes in the book is the temptation to ride dirty. Anyone got any tales you can share about someone who's wronged you on the track? Obviously I’m not looking for names of who did you wrong, just the basic jist. I know about the block pass, brake check and elbowing, but I’m packing the book with a lot of race scenes and your comments will help me think outside the box. Thanks.
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HazemG
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9/4/2014 2:54pm
I don't have anything too crazy first hand, but I like what you're doing. Some more mainstream exposure to younger kids is always good.
rpoint116
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9/4/2014 3:12pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2014 3:13pm
On video there is an early 2000's Unadilla race where Grant Langston brake checks Bobby Bonds on the backside of a high speed jump. Messes him up pretty bad.

Coward.
RonSkj
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9/4/2014 3:14pm
Try talking with Michael Leib.. ask him about about Vince Friese!
hillbilly
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9/4/2014 3:15pm
I can help you. I never road dirty till done dirty,then things had to be handled.

It is much much different now than in the 80s,guys are all friends now ,back then I had no friend on the gate,it just was that way.

I will post a couple that were really violent later tonite.

The Shop

9/4/2014 3:16pm
Thanks. I appreciate it. I've heard from a lot of librarians and teachers who say the same thing - they need more books like this for sports enthusiasts who aren't into reading sci-fi/fantasy/romance/dystopian/sicklit. I had a big publisher turn down TT Full Throttle saying that although they loved it, they couldn't corner the market (most YA is written for girls). That hurt, but knowing that the Children's Book Centre listed it in their annual magazine for teachers and librarians as one of 2014 recommended reads, made me feel pretty good. I know there's an audience out there for this and I also know I've chosen a hard road (no pun intended) writing about motosports stories, but I like it and I have to follow my passion.
JM485
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9/4/2014 3:41pm
I have to say, I think it's awesome that you are taking on a challenge like this. I was always a good reader growing up but one of the things that frustrated me as a kid was the lack of motorcycle related reading. I feel like this is something lots of kids would be interested in, and providing them with positive exposure to the sport would be a great thing.

As for stories, I don't have many. My only thought on dirty riding is this. Regardless of how intense a race is or how much you want to win, we are still all regular people in the end and everyone wants to leave the track safe. I feel that there is a fine line between what is too aggressive and what isn't, bumping into someone in a slow corner is one thing, but cross jumping or intentionally taking someone out in a fast section doesn't have any justification in my opinion. Everyone gets jacked up and excited when racing, but it is our responsibility to calculate the potential risks not only to ourselves but those around us. Here are my few stories, they all are from BMX but they can easily relate to motocross as well.

At a large national, I believe is was during the semi final, I got completely cleaned out in a long, fast berm that looped around the inner part of the track ( think like the ring of a horseshoe). I don't remember what place I was in, but I was somewhere mid pack when out of nowhere a kid cut into my back wheel so hard that both of us hit the deck. I can't think of any reason why he did that, but that's just part of racing at the larger events I guess.

Next year, same national, a different kid decided to do the same exact thing. Luckily, it was in a slower corner, but what made it really dumb was that it happened during the first lap of practice! Again, I have no idea what he was thinking, but apparently he felt the need to take us both down for no reason.

Not sure if those are any help, but good luck on the book!
9/4/2014 3:55pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2014 3:57pm
Thanks, that's awesome. The 'dirty riding' scenes in my story comes when two brothers find themselves pitted against each other on the track - you know, sibling love and all. Some of the ideas will be mental scenarios for one of the brothers as he goes around the track, Of course, fiction being fiction, he'll give in to temptation and execute a few of these moves. Totally unsportsmanlike.
Preston412
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9/4/2014 5:16pm
Well, it was a Saturday night race and my really good friend had been talking smack all day about how is was faster and better than me and another friend of ours. So, now we are all at the gate waiting for practice to start and he looks over at me and says "I hope your hungry because you are going to eat dirt for dinner" I replied "not tonight". Practice starts and he roost me, so about three turns in, I take out his front end, about three laps in he comes into me like a side swipe on a sweet ass bowl turn and sends me tumbling over the back side. I get back up and over the turn, wait for him to come back around and jump in front of him, roost the crap out of him and end of getting side ways on a jump in front of us and totally bust my ass on the landing.

It was all in fun, so no harm or foul.
nornevrder
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9/4/2014 5:18pm
K I wouldn't call this dirty so much as teaching a youngster a lesson. I am 35 and I will jump in the pro class on occasion if there is low attendance in the 30+pro class. Long story short........ I am running third and feeling great. There was about 12 of us racing and the track was great. You know one of those days where everything just clicks. The last quarter if the 20 min moto I loose sight of the front and settle into my pace. Well this kid started to catch me and eventually got on my rear wheel with 2 1/2 laps left. Every fuckin corner this kid is on the rev limiter, yelling, and screaming at me to move. Screw you youngster if you are faster pass me them. Well I had about enough with a lap to go. You see rule #1 in motocross is do not follow. Well this kid thought I would just scoot over for him. I worked hard for this position and am not going to just roll over so some young punk can get it. So anyways he followed me into the inside rut rev liter bouncing. So I just slightly adjusted my speed with a light tap of the brake. Well we will just say it was silent in the next corner. He ended up tipping over. After the race was done his little posse thought they would get tough. Yeah well that ended quickly too. All in all I wouldn't say it was dirty but I did intentionally put the kid down.
Cygnus
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9/4/2014 5:29pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2014 5:29pm
This one time I went for a ride on my dirt bike. I fell in a mud puddle. Took forever to clean my bike and gear.
GuyB
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9/4/2014 5:34pm
rpoint116 wrote:
On video there is an early 2000's Unadilla race where Grant Langston brake checks Bobby Bonds on the backside of a high speed jump. Messes him...
On video there is an early 2000's Unadilla race where Grant Langston brake checks Bobby Bonds on the backside of a high speed jump. Messes him up pretty bad.

Coward.
Well, at least you have some of the facts correct. The riders are right, but it was Hangtown.
GuyB
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9/4/2014 5:37pm
nornevrder wrote:
K I wouldn't call this dirty so much as teaching a youngster a lesson. I am 35 and I will jump in the pro class on...
K I wouldn't call this dirty so much as teaching a youngster a lesson. I am 35 and I will jump in the pro class on occasion if there is low attendance in the 30+pro class. Long story short........ I am running third and feeling great. There was about 12 of us racing and the track was great. You know one of those days where everything just clicks. The last quarter if the 20 min moto I loose sight of the front and settle into my pace. Well this kid started to catch me and eventually got on my rear wheel with 2 1/2 laps left. Every fuckin corner this kid is on the rev limiter, yelling, and screaming at me to move. Screw you youngster if you are faster pass me them. Well I had about enough with a lap to go. You see rule #1 in motocross is do not follow. Well this kid thought I would just scoot over for him. I worked hard for this position and am not going to just roll over so some young punk can get it. So anyways he followed me into the inside rut rev liter bouncing. So I just slightly adjusted my speed with a light tap of the brake. Well we will just say it was silent in the next corner. He ended up tipping over. After the race was done his little posse thought they would get tough. Yeah well that ended quickly too. All in all I wouldn't say it was dirty but I did intentionally put the kid down.
So you were ignoring the blue flags?



(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
9/4/2014 5:52pm
RonSkj wrote:
Try talking with Michael Leib.. ask him about about Vince Friese!
Why confine her to Leib? She can talk to nearly any pro in the last, what, 7 years in the pits.

Study Friese's career and you've done a Ph.D. in dirty riding! Just Google "Friese" and "Vitalmx" and you'll dredge up all of us going nuclear over the years. It's one of the few topics where nearly everyone agrees.
9/4/2014 6:01pm
Oh: one other angle on dirty riding. The payback. Here are some classics. The first is Kevin Windham not liking something that Friese did to him. You can see him beautifully set him up before parking him good.



This next one was just on the site recently. It shows Tyler Evans taking out Grant Langston. Langston then gets up and rides his brains out to catch Evans. He does, and then proceeds to completely clean his clock. It's kinda long but it's a classic. The payback.

http://youtu.be/ugP8AHRZnqA?t=11m51s
mike83
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9/4/2014 6:13pm
I write books about motorcycle racing (TT Full Throttle, and Thunder Road - release date 2015) and the publisher has asked me to write a MG...
I write books about motorcycle racing (TT Full Throttle, and Thunder Road - release date 2015) and the publisher has asked me to write a MG (middle grade) book about motocross racing. I’m totally psyched because it’s different to the Isle of Man TT Road Races. I’m doing my research, reading books, talking to riders, watching videos and have attended the Amateur & Pro Parts Canada TransCan at Waltons. I’m hoping you guys can help me with something…

One of the themes in the book is the temptation to ride dirty. Anyone got any tales you can share about someone who's wronged you on the track? Obviously I’m not looking for names of who did you wrong, just the basic jist. I know about the block pass, brake check and elbowing, but I’m packing the book with a lot of race scenes and your comments will help me think outside the box. Thanks.
First MX race ever, had been doing Hare Scrambles for a number years.

I totally blow the start of my first moto, not used to the intensity. 2nd moto, I'm lined up at the gate and the kid to my right is laughing at my handguards with his buds before the start. (to be fair...they were the big bulky kind with the aluminum since I spent most weekend smashing through the trees)

We take off side by side, and he's barely got an elbow on me going into the first left hand corner. I'm not feeling particularly generous at this point after my first moto, or after listening to this dude on the line talking crap, so I decide I'm going to stay in it and see if I can make something happen here with the start. (Worth mentioning here that I was a pretty big guy back then, 6'3" and about 225, and it's '98 and I'm on one of the first YZ400's at the track. It's a bit of a tractor compared to the rest of the field. The guy beside me is much smaller.) So we are going into the left hand corner and the guy's handlebar get caught on top of my handguard. Of course, we are just starting to lean left, so as I lean for the corner I pick his handlebar and front end right up with it. This guys starts yelling for me to stop. ( I guess, wasn't paying much attention to him honestly) I figure it'll sort itself out any second, and I don't want to lose this start.

We'll about a third of the way into the corner, this guys comes off the back of his bike, but it's still hooked to mine. Amazingly enough, I dragged that KX all the way through the corner and onto the start of the next straight. I finally did have to slow down a bit to get that thing off.

I half expected that guy and his boys to come track me down after the moto, but I never did see him. Not sure if I should've felt bad about that or not afterwards, but I didn't. Normally I would have at least stopped once the guy came off, but my opinion was he lost any consideration from me with all him crap talking at the start.
ga_pike
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9/4/2014 6:49pm
At the mini-o's one year, I pulled the holeshot in the 85 12-13 class in the TT event. Had Maximoff, Windham, Reynard all behind me. Maximoff got by me on lap 2, quickly followed by Windham and Reynard on lap 3. I was riding really well, keeping those guys "in sight" and I held 4th until the last lap... with 2 turns to go, I went outside to avoid the huge holes on the inside. Well, another rider from my area went full bore inside, "lost control", and t-boned me. I went down and ended up not finishing the race but took a trip to the hospital for x-rays instead. He missed the following corner but finished. I found out later he was DQ'd for cutting the track.

I'll out myself as well and I'm not proud of this story. When I moved up to 125's and 250's, I started out in the B class and Schoolboy class. With my hormones raging, I admit I had a very bad temper. Went to a local race and I was the only B rider so they put me on the line with the novice class. I let them go off the gate and took off aafter they got through the first turn. I caught up to about 4th or 5th and got stuck behind 3 guys battling. It was holding me up and I got pissed. After 2 laps of not finding a way around, we dropped into a pit that had a 180 degree turn and I dove hard inside, purposely trying to take out one of the guys. I ended up taking him, another rider and myself out. He got up and gave me a WTF so I jumped him in a fit of rage. I'm not proud of it and that was one of the last times I ever raced (may ave actually been my last race). I was a very angry kid and a pretty big ass hole at the time. Like I said, it wasn't my proudest moment and I regret it to this day. Someone could have been seriously hurt because I was unable to control my emotions.
lostboy819
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9/4/2014 6:58pm
One thing I did and would do again. Back in 1984 I was racing a SX series in Colorado and had won the first race and at the 2nd race I had lead the whole race and about 3 laps from the finish the inside of my silence core broke and it was blowing packing out and plugging up so the bike would barley run. I had enough of a lead that I almost made it to the finish but 2nd place caught me with a half a lap to go so when he came up to pass me I put up my left hand to wave him by and when he started to pass I veered over and ran him into the hay bales , last thing I saw was the bottom of his boots and so I ended up winning. He came up to me after the race and said WTF? I just shrugged and told him I thought he was passing on the other side. Blush

I have known him for 30 years now and he is the sales manager at a huge Honda dealer so I need to buy him lunch one of these days and fess up even though he probably knows I did it on purpose and yes I would do it again.
nornevrder
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9/4/2014 7:03pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2014 7:04pm
nornevrder wrote:
K I wouldn't call this dirty so much as teaching a youngster a lesson. I am 35 and I will jump in the pro class on...
K I wouldn't call this dirty so much as teaching a youngster a lesson. I am 35 and I will jump in the pro class on occasion if there is low attendance in the 30+pro class. Long story short........ I am running third and feeling great. There was about 12 of us racing and the track was great. You know one of those days where everything just clicks. The last quarter if the 20 min moto I loose sight of the front and settle into my pace. Well this kid started to catch me and eventually got on my rear wheel with 2 1/2 laps left. Every fuckin corner this kid is on the rev limiter, yelling, and screaming at me to move. Screw you youngster if you are faster pass me them. Well I had about enough with a lap to go. You see rule #1 in motocross is do not follow. Well this kid thought I would just scoot over for him. I worked hard for this position and am not going to just roll over so some young punk can get it. So anyways he followed me into the inside rut rev liter bouncing. So I just slightly adjusted my speed with a light tap of the brake. Well we will just say it was silent in the next corner. He ended up tipping over. After the race was done his little posse thought they would get tough. Yeah well that ended quickly too. All in all I wouldn't say it was dirty but I did intentionally put the kid down.
GuyB wrote:
So you were ignoring the blue flags?



(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Touché Guy Touché
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9/4/2014 7:19pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2015 6:23pm
T
9/4/2014 7:28pm
hillbilly wrote:
I can help you. I never road dirty till done dirty,then things had to be handled. It is much much different now than in the 80s,guys...
I can help you. I never road dirty till done dirty,then things had to be handled.

It is much much different now than in the 80s,guys are all friends now ,back then I had no friend on the gate,it just was that way.

I will post a couple that were really violent later tonite.
I came into this thread and control-f'd hillbilly. Not disappointed at all .. Looking forward to the stories and carnage Cool
Katoomey
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9/4/2014 7:31pm
nornevrder wrote:
K I wouldn't call this dirty so much as teaching a youngster a lesson. I am 35 and I will jump in the pro class on...
K I wouldn't call this dirty so much as teaching a youngster a lesson. I am 35 and I will jump in the pro class on occasion if there is low attendance in the 30+pro class. Long story short........ I am running third and feeling great. There was about 12 of us racing and the track was great. You know one of those days where everything just clicks. The last quarter if the 20 min moto I loose sight of the front and settle into my pace. Well this kid started to catch me and eventually got on my rear wheel with 2 1/2 laps left. Every fuckin corner this kid is on the rev limiter, yelling, and screaming at me to move. Screw you youngster if you are faster pass me them. Well I had about enough with a lap to go. You see rule #1 in motocross is do not follow. Well this kid thought I would just scoot over for him. I worked hard for this position and am not going to just roll over so some young punk can get it. So anyways he followed me into the inside rut rev liter bouncing. So I just slightly adjusted my speed with a light tap of the brake. Well we will just say it was silent in the next corner. He ended up tipping over. After the race was done his little posse thought they would get tough. Yeah well that ended quickly too. All in all I wouldn't say it was dirty but I did intentionally put the kid down.
Great post! That's good stuff.
wreckitrandy
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9/4/2014 7:36pm
You need to interview Jim Chester or better yet, anyone that ever raced against him. He might not have written the book but he could quote it chapter and verse.
steve_97060
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9/4/2014 7:46pm
lostboy819 wrote:
One thing I did and would do again. Back in 1984 I was racing a SX series in Colorado and had won the first race and...
One thing I did and would do again. Back in 1984 I was racing a SX series in Colorado and had won the first race and at the 2nd race I had lead the whole race and about 3 laps from the finish the inside of my silence core broke and it was blowing packing out and plugging up so the bike would barley run. I had enough of a lead that I almost made it to the finish but 2nd place caught me with a half a lap to go so when he came up to pass me I put up my left hand to wave him by and when he started to pass I veered over and ran him into the hay bales , last thing I saw was the bottom of his boots and so I ended up winning. He came up to me after the race and said WTF? I just shrugged and told him I thought he was passing on the other side. Blush

I have known him for 30 years now and he is the sales manager at a huge Honda dealer so I need to buy him lunch one of these days and fess up even though he probably knows I did it on purpose and yes I would do it again.
why doesn't a story like this from you surprise me...
FlickitFlat
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9/4/2014 8:01pm
We all have stories of riding dirty. Hell my first district race, I was 10. I had a "friend" from school that talked shit all the time that he could whip my ass on the track. He had some wins and had been racing for a year or so. In 2 motos I passed him 3 times and he put me on my ass in the next corner 2 times. I wrecked once on my own riding like a maniac trying to stay away from him. I hated him for years but I have to give him credit, that single race is what gave me my mojo on the track. We raced many times and I never enjoyed riding with him, ever. He quit racing by the time we got to big bikes and I continued on and met all my goals. Years later, I was going on a trail ride with a group of friends. He shows up on a 4 wheeler. I inconspicuously got in front of him, acted like I was stuck in a mud hole and covered his ass with roost when he caught up. oops! I couldn't have done that on purpose. I don't hold grudges. lol

FlickitFlat
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9/4/2014 8:15pm
Just trying to give you some thoughts. Instead of riding dirty how about rider confrontations. Like when the race is over and they want to talk. Not necessarily fights but a disputed debate. All the pros has done it one time or another I mean, RC JS, JS Reed, RC Reed, Pastrana and Larocco, Mike Brown and Hughes. Mike Brown and Langston, Doug Henry kicking Hughs ass, Roncada and Vuillemin as some examples. Ok some of those were brawls but that isn't what I am getting at. I'm talking that moment when RC points his finger and says come here. What did he say? What was the problem? It built suspense during a race and season. Why not in a story book. Some of it spills over from amateurs. Like RV and Allessi. There are numerous examples. Some of it is from riding dirty, some of it is riding just aggressive, some of it is pay backs out of the blue. There are many angles you can explore.
lostboy819
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9/4/2014 8:34pm
lostboy819 wrote:
One thing I did and would do again. Back in 1984 I was racing a SX series in Colorado and had won the first race and...
One thing I did and would do again. Back in 1984 I was racing a SX series in Colorado and had won the first race and at the 2nd race I had lead the whole race and about 3 laps from the finish the inside of my silence core broke and it was blowing packing out and plugging up so the bike would barley run. I had enough of a lead that I almost made it to the finish but 2nd place caught me with a half a lap to go so when he came up to pass me I put up my left hand to wave him by and when he started to pass I veered over and ran him into the hay bales , last thing I saw was the bottom of his boots and so I ended up winning. He came up to me after the race and said WTF? I just shrugged and told him I thought he was passing on the other side. Blush

I have known him for 30 years now and he is the sales manager at a huge Honda dealer so I need to buy him lunch one of these days and fess up even though he probably knows I did it on purpose and yes I would do it again.
why doesn't a story like this from you surprise me...
Because when it comes to racing I have zero of good character. One time racing at Madmax at Bandimere speedway they had a SX course inside a dirt over and the start was a hard left on to the back straight and had a wall along it. I lined up all the way to the left and did not start turning until I got to the wall and it stacked up everyone except me because I controlled the line. I also ran my wife into the tires when we were racing go karts up in Boulder at Gateway fun park.Evil
9/4/2014 10:32pm
Some of these stories made me laugh out loud, you guys are a riot! I love the post-race snark/banter idea to add pressure. I had the brothers mouth off to each other on the podium under their breath, but they should be more public about it.

What are some things that guys say at the starting gate to psych out each other?
UpTiTe
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9/4/2014 10:52pm
I was at Saddleback during pro practice and I came into a turn a little hot and the track was a little slick and I ran into a guy named Juan Benevidez, bad idea. Two turns later I have never been hit so hard by a bike, and when I looked up from the ground he was roosting me while giving me the finger.

Another time I made a pretty aggressive pass on a rider who I won't say because he is still in the industry and hss a fadt kid. Anyway after the checker flag he ghosted his bike at me so hard it bent my sub frame.

I had a Yamaha factory rider want to kill me because I was getting to close to him on the downhill at Mammoth and I was screaming the whole way down. It did it for two or three laps and he wasn't happy at all.
sumdood
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9/4/2014 10:59pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2014 11:02pm
Dirty tricks ? Not dirty like in take someone out but I've fucked around with guys on the line before. I've sat a little further back from the gate from everyone else and "faked" a start to trick my buddy into hitting the gate. Sit about 6'' behind everyone else and right when the guy gets to the doghouse blip the throttle, let the clutch out for a 1/100th of a second, just enough to make your bike lurch 2-3 inches, it's easy if you practice, trick the guy next to you into running into the gate and voila ! 1 down hahaha. In football it's called a false start, in motocross it's called fuckin hilarious. Going "Hey hey" and pointing at their bike when the starter is 4' from the doghouse works too

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