Lifelong Honda 250F rider, thinking of switchign to Yamaha

mtl
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mtl
What do you guys think?

How much better is the SSS than the TAC?

Which motor lasts longer? I've gotten over 120hrs out of Honda's on stock valves and crank.

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adam8781
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adam8781 6/10/2016 12:12pm
6/10/2016 12:12pm
sss is much better, engine is better, lasts longer.

ergonomics are garbage compared to red. Try one, odds are you would like the change.
wideopen198 6/10/2016 12:23pm
6/10/2016 12:23pm
I can't say anything about the suspension but a Honda will sure last longer then a yamaha. A honda makes less rpm and peak hp.
mtl
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mtl 6/10/2016 12:29pm
6/10/2016 12:29pm
adam8781 wrote:
sss is much better, engine is better, lasts longer.

ergonomics are garbage compared to red. Try one, odds are you would like the change.
Tell me more about the ergonomics.

I rode a YZ250 (NOT 250F) and it was definitely a weird feeling, the bars felt super low in my lap in corners..
PDiddy241
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PDiddy241 6/10/2016 1:45pm
6/10/2016 1:45pm
Yamaha's OEM bars are super low... I put a taller, straighter bend on. The four-strokes feel really, really wide between your legs.

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Zycki11
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Zycki11 6/10/2016 1:50pm
6/10/2016 1:50pm
wideopen198 wrote:
I can't say anything about the suspension but a Honda will sure last longer then a yamaha. A honda makes less rpm and peak hp.
You are a idiot. Yamahas have always been the most reliable, Still holds true with the new design. Ergonomics wise, yes absolutely there is a difference. The honda is a little thinner around the shrouds and the yamaha is a bit wider. You do adapt in a single day and will not notice it again. Comparing engines, its not even close. The yamaha produces snappier, broader, and more power. Handling wise, the honda may have a slight edge but the yamaha does a damn good job on the 250f. The yz is also the lighter bike of the two, and hands down has better suspension. I went from a honda to the yamaha and it is the best decision i have made in a while for a bike.
Rdubs19
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Rdubs19 6/10/2016 1:51pm
6/10/2016 1:51pm Edited Date/Time 6/10/2016 1:53pm
I've had a few YZ250Fs and don't really see what the big deal is with the SSS. Not saying it's bad but I wouldn't buy the bike because of it. I know it gives the MXA guys a boner but just feels like any other stock suspension to me. Upgrading to aftermarket suspension would probably be much better and then you can just have whatever bike you want. The Yammys are nice and torquey, stable as a tanker through the whoops and chop but turn like shit to me. No feel at all in the corners. Like I said I've got one and have owned a few but I think I will jump ship for my next bike, the weird ass cornering is just too much of a buzzkill. Good bikes though, tough as iron and I've never felt more confident through the whoops.
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Falcon 6/10/2016 1:52pm
6/10/2016 1:52pm
Yamaha guys think Hondas are small, twitchy and have no suspension.

Honda guys think Yamahas are big, slow to turn and have weird ergos.


You'll love the fact that a YZ will go through bumps without deflecting. There will be times when you think you're going to crash, FOR SURE, and the Yamaha will pull you through it somehow. The tradeoff is that you really have to lay it over in the turns to make anything happen.
IceMan446
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IceMan446 6/10/2016 1:57pm
6/10/2016 1:57pm
The ergo's are different. As they are with any bike that you switch to coming from one you are accustomed to.

I am 5'9 and tried every bar and mount position and found the standard spot the mounts come in best, but flip the mounts 180 and that worked best. I also put the cycra kit on and its noticeably narrower. But like it was said above, you will get used to it in a day. Run a little more sag (103-106) and you will be good to go.

Reliability is great. Not a single issue with mine. Change the oil and filter, keep the air filters clean and you are good.

Super good and usable power. I went to a 49 tooth rear sprocket and can run 3rd gear in all the corners. Tons of low end grunt.
Underground 6/10/2016 2:28pm
6/10/2016 2:28pm
Pick up a killer deal on a left over 16 CRF with the new cylinder head design, drop the suspension off at Factory Connection and bolt on a good exhaust like Yoshi and a Vortex ignition. You'll have a way better bike than a stock Yamaha that you won't have to adapt to or worry about the gearbox blowing or frame cracking and you'll have 10 maps to boot. If you want more send the motor off to Don Lieb or Derek Harris. The FCR Hondas prove there's plenty of HP within those detuned for reliability and ease of riding engines. It's all about set up.
Underground 6/10/2016 2:31pm
6/10/2016 2:31pm
wideopen198 wrote:
I can't say anything about the suspension but a Honda will sure last longer then a yamaha. A honda makes less rpm and peak hp.
Zycki11 wrote:
You are a idiot. Yamahas have always been the most reliable, Still holds true with the new design. Ergonomics wise, yes absolutely there is a difference...
You are a idiot. Yamahas have always been the most reliable, Still holds true with the new design. Ergonomics wise, yes absolutely there is a difference. The honda is a little thinner around the shrouds and the yamaha is a bit wider. You do adapt in a single day and will not notice it again. Comparing engines, its not even close. The yamaha produces snappier, broader, and more power. Handling wise, the honda may have a slight edge but the yamaha does a damn good job on the 250f. The yz is also the lighter bike of the two, and hands down has better suspension. I went from a honda to the yamaha and it is the best decision i have made in a while for a bike.
Were. Tell that to all the guys with blown gearboxs, cracked frames and crickets from Yamaha. It's been well documented here. Need to stop drinking from the Blu Cru drink stand.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 6/10/2016 2:40pm
6/10/2016 2:40pm
Either bike is fine, yes stock wise the YZF has the edge engine wise over the CRF (which is much better in 2016), the SSS forks are good but the air forks on the CRF are considered pretty good too, there are reports os issues with YZF frames etc but not sure if its as bad as its made out....I think your decision should come down to dealer support, look for the best deal...problem is switching requires new gear, stockup of new parts, etc etc....so sometimes switching isnt that great money wise when you have spent a while on one brand.
lostboy819
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lostboy819 6/10/2016 2:43pm
6/10/2016 2:43pm
I would go with the bike with the better dealer support,if you dealer sells both Honda and Yamaha then you cant lose.
mtl
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mtl 6/10/2016 4:08pm
6/10/2016 4:08pm
Oy, Im stuck here as the Honda I'd get would be another 2015. No one has 2016's in stock.

How big is the diff between the 15 and 16 Honda?

c0ncEpT
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c0ncEpT 6/10/2016 6:00pm
6/10/2016 6:00pm Edited Date/Time 6/10/2016 6:01pm
Underground wrote:
Pick up a killer deal on a left over 16 CRF with the new cylinder head design, drop the suspension off at Factory Connection and bolt...
Pick up a killer deal on a left over 16 CRF with the new cylinder head design, drop the suspension off at Factory Connection and bolt on a good exhaust like Yoshi and a Vortex ignition. You'll have a way better bike than a stock Yamaha that you won't have to adapt to or worry about the gearbox blowing or frame cracking and you'll have 10 maps to boot. If you want more send the motor off to Don Lieb or Derek Harris. The FCR Hondas prove there's plenty of HP within those detuned for reliability and ease of riding engines. It's all about set up.
Pick up a left over 16 YZ250F. Drop the suspension off at Enzo, bolt on an FMF and GYTR tuner. Have a better bike than the modded Honda that will go 100+ hours on valve adjustments.

I'm a Honda convert myself. While it did take a while (3 practice days) to get use to the feel. I think almost every single part of the Yamaha is better. Motor is WAY stronger and more reliable. Suspension still has Springs and has a great plush feeling. Bike is very confidence inspiring.

I think the only thing the Honda really did better was hit the tightest of inside ruts easier.
IceMan446
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IceMan446 6/10/2016 6:12pm
6/10/2016 6:12pm
Underground wrote:
Pick up a killer deal on a left over 16 CRF with the new cylinder head design, drop the suspension off at Factory Connection and bolt...
Pick up a killer deal on a left over 16 CRF with the new cylinder head design, drop the suspension off at Factory Connection and bolt on a good exhaust like Yoshi and a Vortex ignition. You'll have a way better bike than a stock Yamaha that you won't have to adapt to or worry about the gearbox blowing or frame cracking and you'll have 10 maps to boot. If you want more send the motor off to Don Lieb or Derek Harris. The FCR Hondas prove there's plenty of HP within those detuned for reliability and ease of riding engines. It's all about set up.
c0ncEpT wrote:
Pick up a left over 16 YZ250F. Drop the suspension off at Enzo, bolt on an FMF and GYTR tuner. Have a better bike than the...
Pick up a left over 16 YZ250F. Drop the suspension off at Enzo, bolt on an FMF and GYTR tuner. Have a better bike than the modded Honda that will go 100+ hours on valve adjustments.

I'm a Honda convert myself. While it did take a while (3 practice days) to get use to the feel. I think almost every single part of the Yamaha is better. Motor is WAY stronger and more reliable. Suspension still has Springs and has a great plush feeling. Bike is very confidence inspiring.

I think the only thing the Honda really did better was hit the tightest of inside ruts easier.
+1
Motodave15
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Motodave15 6/10/2016 6:25pm
6/10/2016 6:25pm
Well, ill tell you this... my trusty 2001 yz250f still turns better than my dads 2004 crf250f lol

I know im on a dinosaur but i still love the way it feels... i rode a new yz250f 2015 (not a 16) and it felt bigger and a hell of a lot more stiff than my 01...


so to answer your question.... yamahas are always superior to hodakas i mean honda's
mtl
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mtl 6/10/2016 6:35pm
6/10/2016 6:35pm
What are 2017's going to be in shops?

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mtl
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mtl 6/10/2016 7:08pm
6/10/2016 7:08pm
Underground wrote:
Pick up a killer deal on a left over 16 CRF with the new cylinder head design, drop the suspension off at Factory Connection and bolt...
Pick up a killer deal on a left over 16 CRF with the new cylinder head design, drop the suspension off at Factory Connection and bolt on a good exhaust like Yoshi and a Vortex ignition. You'll have a way better bike than a stock Yamaha that you won't have to adapt to or worry about the gearbox blowing or frame cracking and you'll have 10 maps to boot. If you want more send the motor off to Don Lieb or Derek Harris. The FCR Hondas prove there's plenty of HP within those detuned for reliability and ease of riding engines. It's all about set up.
c0ncEpT wrote:
Pick up a left over 16 YZ250F. Drop the suspension off at Enzo, bolt on an FMF and GYTR tuner. Have a better bike than the...
Pick up a left over 16 YZ250F. Drop the suspension off at Enzo, bolt on an FMF and GYTR tuner. Have a better bike than the modded Honda that will go 100+ hours on valve adjustments.

I'm a Honda convert myself. While it did take a while (3 practice days) to get use to the feel. I think almost every single part of the Yamaha is better. Motor is WAY stronger and more reliable. Suspension still has Springs and has a great plush feeling. Bike is very confidence inspiring.

I think the only thing the Honda really did better was hit the tightest of inside ruts easier.
IceMan446 wrote:
+1
Hmm, How noticeable is the lack of tight cornering?

Also, Is it fundamentally due to frame geometry?

Lastly, what about headshake on the blue bike? Will I need to run a HSPD?
kiwifan
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kiwifan 6/10/2016 7:21pm
6/10/2016 7:21pm
c0ncEpT wrote:
Pick up a left over 16 YZ250F. Drop the suspension off at Enzo, bolt on an FMF and GYTR tuner. Have a better bike than the...
Pick up a left over 16 YZ250F. Drop the suspension off at Enzo, bolt on an FMF and GYTR tuner. Have a better bike than the modded Honda that will go 100+ hours on valve adjustments.

I'm a Honda convert myself. While it did take a while (3 practice days) to get use to the feel. I think almost every single part of the Yamaha is better. Motor is WAY stronger and more reliable. Suspension still has Springs and has a great plush feeling. Bike is very confidence inspiring.

I think the only thing the Honda really did better was hit the tightest of inside ruts easier.
Wait, you modify the SSS's???

Judging by comments here and on thumpertalk the YZF is not more reliable than the CRF, obviously if you are referring to the valve issues Honda had years ago then yes the Yamaha would be, but right now I would say the opposite is true.

JkopMx
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JkopMx 6/10/2016 8:02pm
6/10/2016 8:02pm
Believer in both brands Yamaha and Honda .. Maybe I'm missing something .. Honda doesn't lack much power as it had previously ...






Obviously dynos are different .. I, myself have rode both back to back ..
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 6/10/2016 8:32pm
6/10/2016 8:32pm
The Yamaha will feel like a 450 compared to the honda
IceMan446
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IceMan446 6/10/2016 8:39pm
6/10/2016 8:39pm
mtl wrote:
Hmm, How noticeable is the lack of tight cornering? Also, Is it fundamentally due to frame geometry? Lastly, what about headshake on the blue bike? Will...
Hmm, How noticeable is the lack of tight cornering?

Also, Is it fundamentally due to frame geometry?

Lastly, what about headshake on the blue bike? Will I need to run a HSPD?
I have zero issues cornering. Some people complain about being able to lean it into a turn but I don't seem to have that issue. I left the forks at the stock height.

Have yet to get any head shake either. I ride at some fairly fast tracks.

The motor is fantastic. I literally am amazed at the low-mid torque it has, feels like a 450 with the grunt it has. It pulls me around no problem and I weigh 180.
IceMan446
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IceMan446 6/10/2016 8:42pm
6/10/2016 8:42pm
mtl wrote:
What do you guys think? How much better is the SSS than the TAC? Which motor lasts longer? I've gotten over 120hrs out of Honda's on...
What do you guys think?

How much better is the SSS than the TAC?

Which motor lasts longer? I've gotten over 120hrs out of Honda's on stock valves and crank.

I get the dyno numbers, but until you ride it, the HP numbers don't mean much. The Yamaha has no problem keeping up with the KTM.

Usable power. That's where the Yamaha shines.
mtl
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mtl 6/10/2016 8:43pm
6/10/2016 8:43pm
IceMan446 wrote:
I have zero issues cornering. Some people complain about being able to lean it into a turn but I don't seem to have that issue. I...
I have zero issues cornering. Some people complain about being able to lean it into a turn but I don't seem to have that issue. I left the forks at the stock height.

Have yet to get any head shake either. I ride at some fairly fast tracks.

The motor is fantastic. I literally am amazed at the low-mid torque it has, feels like a 450 with the grunt it has. It pulls me around no problem and I weigh 180.
What were you on before the Yamaha?

I'm around 180 myself, so it's good to hear about the power.
walent215
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walent215 6/10/2016 8:51pm
6/10/2016 8:51pm Edited Date/Time 6/10/2016 8:52pm
They are both great bikes...we just sold our 15 crf250 with a few mods, pipe,remap, fuel etc....the motor was extremely reliable for us..my son rides fairly hard and we never had a failure on the stock motor with almost 100 hours...zero valve adjustments too.we did replace the piston at about 42 hours. We are now on a stock 16 yz250f, except gytr tune....my son loves it but the suspension isn't that much better..in fact the honda had much better hold up on hard hits etc with the air fork....they are 2 very different bikes but very good in their own way. Buy the one that you really want...you won't be dissapointed with either...oh and BTW we did ride our buddies 16 crf250 and it is noticeably better than the 15....the motor is great stock and I'm sure with some time tweeking the suspension the stock stuff would be fine as well.
lostboy819
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lostboy819 6/10/2016 8:52pm
6/10/2016 8:52pm
mtl wrote:
Hmm, How noticeable is the lack of tight cornering? Also, Is it fundamentally due to frame geometry? Lastly, what about headshake on the blue bike? Will...
Hmm, How noticeable is the lack of tight cornering?

Also, Is it fundamentally due to frame geometry?

Lastly, what about headshake on the blue bike? Will I need to run a HSPD?
Your are over thinking this thing, both bikes are great bikes just pick red or blue and you will be happy with either one.
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Tpog496 6/10/2016 8:56pm
6/10/2016 8:56pm
mtl wrote:
What do you guys think? How much better is the SSS than the TAC? Which motor lasts longer? I've gotten over 120hrs out of Honda's on...
What do you guys think?

How much better is the SSS than the TAC?

Which motor lasts longer? I've gotten over 120hrs out of Honda's on stock valves and crank.

In what way? Have you ever ridden a 16 crf?
mtl
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mtl 6/10/2016 8:57pm
6/10/2016 8:57pm
Thanks for al the valuable information.


Anyone have the 2015 curves and numbers for these?

Im trying to chose between 2015 Honda and 2016 Yahama.

GeorgiePorgie 6/10/2016 8:59pm
6/10/2016 8:59pm Edited Date/Time 6/10/2016 9:01pm
Dooooooo it. I did. Hondas until 2006. Then yamahas ever since. Made so much money on blue bikes it's ridiculous.

By made I mean spent. And by spent I mean yea I suck so don't take my opinion for much of anything.


Still think you can't go wrong with either.

Post a reply to: Lifelong Honda 250F rider, thinking of switchign to Yamaha