KYB SSS Question

MXD
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7/27/2016 1:37pm
I'm looking to possibly retro fit a set of these to my 16 KX450. I love the way my TAC forks feel on the track but I'm getting a bit tired of checking and adjusting pressures before each moto and practice on race day. Last weekend, my inner chamber went from 178 to 184 just from sitting in the sun between motos. Anyway, a good friend of mine has a set of forks off of a 2007 YZ450. If I am getting them revalved and resprung for my weight and ability regardless, is there any difference between the 06-16 forks?
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7/27/2016 1:49pm Edited Date/Time 7/27/2016 1:50pm
From what i could see from tripple clamp parts list the YZ450 06-09 share same size as the yz 2stroke.

2010 250f/450f YZ is the new size same as 09/12crf form what i was told. Think even the KX450F 07-12 share that size.

Looking for some SSS forks to since no one is making softer balance springs for PSF forks
MXD
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7/27/2016 1:58pm
The other question is what is the best way to deal with the 48mm fork tube in a 49mm clamp? I can buy 2012 KX450 lugs that should fit right on there so that should take care of the wheel/axle/brake issue.
mmcmx
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7/27/2016 2:30pm
MXD wrote:
The other question is what is the best way to deal with the 48mm fork tube in a 49mm clamp? I can buy 2012 KX450 lugs...
The other question is what is the best way to deal with the 48mm fork tube in a 49mm clamp? I can buy 2012 KX450 lugs that should fit right on there so that should take care of the wheel/axle/brake issue.
A clamp from a 14 or older? What about fork length?
7/27/2016 3:41pm Edited Date/Time 7/27/2016 3:55pm
kx450f is listed as 13-16. But from what i remember the honda 13 for is the same fork. So i need to correct my self on the kxf since i am a little unsure on the outer diameter on the kxf 2012 downwards.

Edited. Applied racing list 06-16 KXF450 13-16 250 SLD FACT SET 20MM

The Shop

Titan1
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7/27/2016 3:57pm
MXD wrote:
I'm looking to possibly retro fit a set of these to my 16 KX450. I love the way my TAC forks feel on the track but...
I'm looking to possibly retro fit a set of these to my 16 KX450. I love the way my TAC forks feel on the track but I'm getting a bit tired of checking and adjusting pressures before each moto and practice on race day. Last weekend, my inner chamber went from 178 to 184 just from sitting in the sun between motos. Anyway, a good friend of mine has a set of forks off of a 2007 YZ450. If I am getting them revalved and resprung for my weight and ability regardless, is there any difference between the 06-16 forks?
I've NEVER had my air pressure vary that much without a drastic altitude AND temperature change. (15 KX450) I had a change that drastic when I went from 40 degrees at almost 5000 feet (February in Northern Utah) 80 degrees at 2000 feet (down to Southern Utah) once though.

I used to check the pressure every ride...but it never moved...and after doing for months...I finally stopped and just ride the thing, no complaints.

With that said, those KYB SSS forks are great forks...if you aren't happy with the air forks, I hope you can figure out a way to make them work for you.

(I know of several tuners who are doing spring conversions on the new Showa air forks...and I thought that they were using the KYB SSS internals...could be wrong though.)
MXD
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7/27/2016 5:03pm Edited Date/Time 7/27/2016 5:05pm
MXD wrote:
I'm looking to possibly retro fit a set of these to my 16 KX450. I love the way my TAC forks feel on the track but...
I'm looking to possibly retro fit a set of these to my 16 KX450. I love the way my TAC forks feel on the track but I'm getting a bit tired of checking and adjusting pressures before each moto and practice on race day. Last weekend, my inner chamber went from 178 to 184 just from sitting in the sun between motos. Anyway, a good friend of mine has a set of forks off of a 2007 YZ450. If I am getting them revalved and resprung for my weight and ability regardless, is there any difference between the 06-16 forks?
Titan1 wrote:
I've NEVER had my air pressure vary that much without a drastic altitude AND temperature change. (15 KX450) I had a change that drastic when I...
I've NEVER had my air pressure vary that much without a drastic altitude AND temperature change. (15 KX450) I had a change that drastic when I went from 40 degrees at almost 5000 feet (February in Northern Utah) 80 degrees at 2000 feet (down to Southern Utah) once though.

I used to check the pressure every ride...but it never moved...and after doing for months...I finally stopped and just ride the thing, no complaints.

With that said, those KYB SSS forks are great forks...if you aren't happy with the air forks, I hope you can figure out a way to make them work for you.

(I know of several tuners who are doing spring conversions on the new Showa air forks...and I thought that they were using the KYB SSS internals...could be wrong though.)
I was definitely surprised. The conditions were probably worst case scenario so maybe my example is a bit extreme. When I filled them before riders meeting it was probably 8:15am, maybe 72 degrees and overcast. I went out for practice at 9 or so and by the time my moto came around which was almost 3 hours later, the sun was blazing, the humidity went through the roof and the temp was in the low 90s. My bike wasn't under the ez-up either so the sun was beating down on it. Just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I asked my buddy if I could check his and his rose about the same (within 1psi). I have no major issue with the performance of the forks, in fact, I like it. I would just prefer not have to check the pressure throughout the day. Since I have the KYB forks at my disposal to try, I figured I would throw a small amount of cash at it to see how they perform. My gut feeling is that they will be no better or worse than my TACs but I won't have to deal with the moving goalpost.

What's funny is that I'm just a lowly Vet B racer who gets 6 lap motos. 6 laps isn't enough time to build up enough heat to vary the pressure while I'm riding. They work perfectly and consistently during the motos. The pressure seems to be fluctuating from just sitting in the sun between motos.
7/27/2016 6:01pm Edited Date/Time 7/27/2016 6:02pm
MXD wrote:
I'm looking to possibly retro fit a set of these to my 16 KX450. I love the way my TAC forks feel on the track but...
I'm looking to possibly retro fit a set of these to my 16 KX450. I love the way my TAC forks feel on the track but I'm getting a bit tired of checking and adjusting pressures before each moto and practice on race day. Last weekend, my inner chamber went from 178 to 184 just from sitting in the sun between motos. Anyway, a good friend of mine has a set of forks off of a 2007 YZ450. If I am getting them revalved and resprung for my weight and ability regardless, is there any difference between the 06-16 forks?
There are some internal differences, but nothing that should have an impact on performance. Any fork from 06-up should work just as well, providing they are in good condition.

As for fitment, the KX450F used to come stock with SSS's (called AOSS, they are the same thing). It would be an easier conversion.
MXD
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7/27/2016 6:42pm Edited Date/Time 7/27/2016 6:43pm
MXD wrote:
I'm looking to possibly retro fit a set of these to my 16 KX450. I love the way my TAC forks feel on the track but...
I'm looking to possibly retro fit a set of these to my 16 KX450. I love the way my TAC forks feel on the track but I'm getting a bit tired of checking and adjusting pressures before each moto and practice on race day. Last weekend, my inner chamber went from 178 to 184 just from sitting in the sun between motos. Anyway, a good friend of mine has a set of forks off of a 2007 YZ450. If I am getting them revalved and resprung for my weight and ability regardless, is there any difference between the 06-16 forks?
Sheriff245 wrote:
There are some internal differences, but nothing that should have an impact on performance. Any fork from 06-up should work just as well, providing they are...
There are some internal differences, but nothing that should have an impact on performance. Any fork from 06-up should work just as well, providing they are in good condition.

As for fitment, the KX450F used to come stock with SSS's (called AOSS, they are the same thing). It would be an easier conversion.
Thanks, that's good info. They were 48mm, correct? So I assume ill need some clamps as well since the 16 forks/clamps are 49mm.
mx317
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7/27/2016 6:50pm
The clamps are not 49mm, the tubes are. I was using a set of 2010 KX450F forks on my 16 and they bolt straight up. I have a KTM now and might sell the forks as I put the stock forks back on when I sold it.
Bruce372
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7/27/2016 6:55pm
It might be easier to do the race tech spring conversion??? It's $500 and you can maybe take it out when you sell the bike.
MXD
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7/27/2016 7:01pm
Bruce372 wrote:
It might be easier to do the race tech spring conversion??? It's $500 and you can maybe take it out when you sell the bike.
I thought about that but I think I'd prefer to spend a little extra and keep the stock forks as is in case I want to go back.
MXD
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7/27/2016 7:02pm
mx317 wrote:
The clamps are not 49mm, the tubes are. I was using a set of 2010 KX450F forks on my 16 and they bolt straight up. I...
The clamps are not 49mm, the tubes are. I was using a set of 2010 KX450F forks on my 16 and they bolt straight up. I have a KTM now and might sell the forks as I put the stock forks back on when I sold it.
I'll be sending you a PM shortly.
mx317
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7/27/2016 7:52pm
mx317 wrote:
The clamps are not 49mm, the tubes are. I was using a set of 2010 KX450F forks on my 16 and they bolt straight up. I...
The clamps are not 49mm, the tubes are. I was using a set of 2010 KX450F forks on my 16 and they bolt straight up. I have a KTM now and might sell the forks as I put the stock forks back on when I sold it.
MXD wrote:
I'll be sending you a PM shortly.
I looked and my email was wrong for PMs, so I fixed it.
MXD
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7/27/2016 7:54pm
mx317 wrote:
The clamps are not 49mm, the tubes are. I was using a set of 2010 KX450F forks on my 16 and they bolt straight up. I...
The clamps are not 49mm, the tubes are. I was using a set of 2010 KX450F forks on my 16 and they bolt straight up. I have a KTM now and might sell the forks as I put the stock forks back on when I sold it.
MXD wrote:
I'll be sending you a PM shortly.
mx317 wrote:
I looked and my email was wrong for PMs, so I fixed it.
I'll resend it.
Radical
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8/22/2016 2:04pm
MXD wrote:
I'm looking to possibly retro fit a set of these to my 16 KX450. I love the way my TAC forks feel on the track but...
I'm looking to possibly retro fit a set of these to my 16 KX450. I love the way my TAC forks feel on the track but I'm getting a bit tired of checking and adjusting pressures before each moto and practice on race day. Last weekend, my inner chamber went from 178 to 184 just from sitting in the sun between motos. Anyway, a good friend of mine has a set of forks off of a 2007 YZ450. If I am getting them revalved and resprung for my weight and ability regardless, is there any difference between the 06-16 forks?
Sheriff245 wrote:
There are some internal differences, but nothing that should have an impact on performance. Any fork from 06-up should work just as well, providing they are...
There are some internal differences, but nothing that should have an impact on performance. Any fork from 06-up should work just as well, providing they are in good condition.

As for fitment, the KX450F used to come stock with SSS's (called AOSS, they are the same thing). It would be an easier conversion.
AOSS and SSS are not even close to being the same forks. SSS are 90% speed sensitive. AOSS are I believe 30% speed sensitive.
ML512
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8/22/2016 3:04pm
Radical wrote:
AOSS and SSS are not even close to being the same forks. SSS are 90% speed sensitive. AOSS are I believe 30% speed sensitive.
The current Yamaha forks are AOSS... SSS is a leftover term that came from the 2005 model fork...

It just comes down to settings... The person asking the question on forks would be better off getting a set of KX450F forks from 2010-2012 and bolting them up.
MXD
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8/22/2016 3:36pm
Radical wrote:
AOSS and SSS are not even close to being the same forks. SSS are 90% speed sensitive. AOSS are I believe 30% speed sensitive.
ML512 wrote:
The current Yamaha forks are AOSS... SSS is a leftover term that came from the 2005 model fork... It just comes down to settings... The person...
The current Yamaha forks are AOSS... SSS is a leftover term that came from the 2005 model fork...

It just comes down to settings... The person asking the question on forks would be better off getting a set of KX450F forks from 2010-2012 and bolting them up.
That's exactly what I did and I couldn't be happier. Thanks again, MX317!
Radical
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8/22/2016 3:41pm
Hey ML,

The 2005 YZ125 and YZ250 came with AOSS forks. This is the only year Yamaha sold AOSS forks that I'm aware of.
In 2006, Yamaha released the SSS forks which are 90% speed sensitive and they've been on the YZs with minor changes up until 2016. They are worth the upgrade in my opinion (which I've done recently to my 2005 YZ125).

The diagrams look similar, but there are quite a few parts that are different between 2005 and 2006.
I have no idea where else the AOSS forks are used for other manufacturers.

ML512
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8/22/2016 4:45pm
Radical wrote:
Hey ML, The 2005 YZ125 and YZ250 came with AOSS forks. This is the only year Yamaha sold AOSS forks that I'm aware of. In 2006...
Hey ML,

The 2005 YZ125 and YZ250 came with AOSS forks. This is the only year Yamaha sold AOSS forks that I'm aware of.
In 2006, Yamaha released the SSS forks which are 90% speed sensitive and they've been on the YZs with minor changes up until 2016. They are worth the upgrade in my opinion (which I've done recently to my 2005 YZ125).

The diagrams look similar, but there are quite a few parts that are different between 2005 and 2006.
I have no idea where else the AOSS forks are used for other manufacturers.

Internally at KYB, the current sets are called AOSS...
USMCMXer
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8/22/2016 5:05pm
SSS = how the fork works; Speed Sensitive System. AOSS = the design of the fork, mechanically; Air Oil Separate System. I know MXA raves about SSS forks, but like ML is trying to say, it is the settings that make them so great. The valving is proprietary to Yamaha and KYB is not allowed to sell that exact setup to other manufacturers, not that you couldn't make them identical yourself (with tuner help), or else Kawi, TM and some Hondas all would've been the same as Yamaha for many years, which I think we can all agree, is not the case.

Okay, I take back that last sentence, I KNOW we can never all agree here! Wink
Radical
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8/23/2016 12:57am
Fair enough! I will say that in stock form, the 2012 forks have really made a difference on my 2005 YZ125.
Markee
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10/6/2017 6:12am
Radical wrote:
AOSS and SSS are not even close to being the same forks. SSS are 90% speed sensitive. AOSS are I believe 30% speed sensitive.
ML512 wrote:
The current Yamaha forks are AOSS... SSS is a leftover term that came from the 2005 model fork... It just comes down to settings... The person...
The current Yamaha forks are AOSS... SSS is a leftover term that came from the 2005 model fork...

It just comes down to settings... The person asking the question on forks would be better off getting a set of KX450F forks from 2010-2012 and bolting them up.
Do those forks have the same size clamping area as the KYB forks put on yamaha from those same years (2010-2012)??
10/6/2017 7:42am
Radical wrote:
Fair enough! I will say that in stock form, the 2012 forks have really made a difference on my 2005 YZ125.
That's because you've got them dialed. It's also because they are on the 125. I had a 2015 YZ125 and once Slip worked his magic on those forks, I then knew why everyone raved about them. They were good right out of the box, but became great with some TLC and a respring to my weight.

Here's what I'm really trying to say (I think). I also have a 2013 YZ250. The STOCK 250 forks never felt as good as the STOCK forks did on the 125. I can only attribute that to the difference in the bike's weight, power delivery, etc. Slip has also worked his magic on my 250 and now they are a close second to the 125, but still not as progressive and plush as the 125 was. So I do think the difference in weight and chassis and power does make a minor difference in the way the fork feels. To me, the holy-grail of forks has always been the 1987 CR I had. Those forks were perfect right out of the box. I was disappointed my Yamaha forks - on both the 125 and 250 didn't feel as plush and progressive. However, after having them sprung and rebuilt with fresh oil, bushings, seals, I finally experienced a fork better than that 87 CR. The difference that I was not accounting for was how much more rigid modern USD forks are compared to that old Honda. The rigidity does take a bit of the "plush" out of modern forks, but they can certainly take a hard hit much better.

I also want to say that folks that have ridden AOSS/SSS suspension and found it not nearly as good as you'd heard - that's because it wasn't set-up for you, hadn't had an oil change, wrong springs, whatever. They are as good as advertised when sprung for you and maintained with regular oil and internal parts changes.

I have no idea why I just typed all that. I'm retired now...have lots of time. Smile
Squirtlege
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10/6/2017 8:00am
Hey congrats on retirement Harry Bro!
10/6/2017 8:02am
Squirtlege wrote:
Hey congrats on retirement Harry Bro!
Thank you, Broseph! It's good. I can get used to this. I say to my wife quite a bit these days, "Hey, I don't have to go to work tomorrow." Or, my latest, "Hey, it's Saturday again!"
Markee
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10/6/2017 8:43am
Squirtlege wrote:
Hey congrats on retirement Harry Bro!
Thank you, Broseph! It's good. I can get used to this. I say to my wife quite a bit these days, "Hey, I don't have to...
Thank you, Broseph! It's good. I can get used to this. I say to my wife quite a bit these days, "Hey, I don't have to go to work tomorrow." Or, my latest, "Hey, it's Saturday again!"
Hell yeah! Congrats man! Everyday Saturday, that's my heaven
10/6/2017 2:52pm Edited Date/Time 10/6/2017 2:53pm
Squirtlege wrote:
Hey congrats on retirement Harry Bro!
Thank you, Broseph! It's good. I can get used to this. I say to my wife quite a bit these days, "Hey, I don't have to...
Thank you, Broseph! It's good. I can get used to this. I say to my wife quite a bit these days, "Hey, I don't have to go to work tomorrow." Or, my latest, "Hey, it's Saturday again!"
Markee wrote:
Hell yeah! Congrats man! Everyday Saturday, that's my heaven
Thank you, Markee...now I suggest you get a nice cat. Much ty.
Markee
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10/7/2017 4:11am Edited Date/Time 10/7/2017 4:12am
Oh no, you the one with all the time to raise a nice behaved kitty. Maybe get into high end show cats?
10/7/2017 4:29am
Air forks are such a bad idea, if I had a kxf I would immediately switch to spring.
Radfonz
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10/7/2017 5:08am
I just put a set of 2007 KX450F forks in my 2016. Absolutely no mods required. Only thing you have to do is get an oversized brake bracket to suit the 270mm rotor

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