KTM's response to Alta?

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EastFlorida

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7/25/2017 8:20 AM

This could end up being a good situation with respect to choices...

I'm not familiar with the performance of the KTM vs the Alta...

http://racerxonline.com/2017/07/25/ktm-introduces-electric-model-to-north-american-lineup

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es337

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7/25/2017 8:23 AM

This bike is 3 years old at least it's just new to the us. Also the ktm is more similar to an 85 than a 250f

kkawboy14

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7/25/2017 8:25 AM

My guess is Alta will have a hard time competing against the big motorcycle companies. A lot of lawn equipment electric stuff from small companies either got sold or closed due to the sales going to the bigger names offering better warranties and service.

So far in the car industry people will point to Tesla as success against the big companies but for sure that is an unusual financial backing by the owner, businesses and government combination.

Brent

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7/25/2017 8:36 AM

The KTM has been around in Europe for while now, more of a play bike than the Alta.

Swann

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7/25/2017 8:52 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/25/2017 9:11 AM

KTM screwed the pooch and delivered an underperforming, unimpressive first attempt at an ebike. It sits more inline with the electric assist mountain bikes whereas Alta's Redshift is a truly competitive motocross bike.

If KTM does not buy Alta, they better double-down and invest in some serious engineering to produce a bike that can compete with the Alta because right now that thing they have isn't even remotely close.

Motofinne

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7/25/2017 8:54 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/25/2017 8:59 AM

The KTM has been available in Europe for multiple years. It's more of a trail bike, not a bike aimed at competitive motocross racing.

Comparing the Alta to the KTM is like comparing a CRF230F to a CRF250R.

TXDirt

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7/25/2017 9:04 AM

KTM's response to Alta will be to buy Alta. But they better do it before Honda swoops in!!

BobPA

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7/25/2017 9:29 AM

Swann wrote:

KTM screwed the pooch and delivered an underperforming, unimpressive first attempt at an ebike. It sits more inline with the electric assist mountain bikes whereas Alta's Redshift is a truly competitive motocross bike.

If KTM does not buy Alta, they better double-down and invest in some serious engineering to produce a bike that can compete with the Alta because right now that thing they have isn't even remotely close.

KTM was not trying to design a a full on electric MX bike. It is clearly more trail oriented.

Jason Anderson FTW

p0wn

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7/25/2017 9:33 AM

KTM is apparently going to be selling these things at a loss just to get them out there in the US. They are also in no way competitive with the Alta.

JRT812

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7/25/2017 9:33 AM

KTM to Alta - name your price

mndirtrider

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7/25/2017 11:01 AM

The run time is stated at "around and hour" so you won't be getting to too many trails... The power output is pretty small compared to the Alta as well. This bike seems way overpriced even though it's 60% cheaper than the Alta.

Lastander

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7/25/2017 12:00 PM

Yep as stated above.
KTM dealers sold these last year with a discount of 50-60% i think, just because no one bought one, and it was still around 4-5000$, just for a trail bike

APLMAN99

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7/25/2017 12:07 PM

kkawboy14 wrote:

My guess is Alta will have a hard time competing against the big motorcycle companies. A lot of lawn equipment electric stuff from small companies either got sold or closed due to the sales going to the bigger names offering better warranties and service.

So far in the car industry people will point to Tesla as success against the big companies but for sure that is an unusual financial backing by the owner, businesses and government combination.

The Alta gang is from the original Tesla team. I'd bet that fact alone would bring some decent VC capital to the plate when they do funding rounds.....

bayodome

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7/25/2017 12:35 PM

Alta is in a similar position to Tesla at the moment. They're small but have the best electric option by far. The Freeride E (which I've ridden on a few occasions) is fun but is more in the realm of a TTR125 than a full-size bike. I'm sure there are some great things coming in the near future from the big OEMs, but for now Alta is the only true full size MX bike out there.

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endurox

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7/25/2017 2:13 PM

bayodome wrote:

Alta is in a similar position to Tesla at the moment. They're small but have the best electric option by far. The Freeride E (which I've ridden on a few occasions) is fun but is more in the realm of a TTR125 than a full-size bike. I'm sure there are some great things coming in the near future from the big OEMs, but for now Alta is the only true full size MX bike out there.

Tesla is getting you and I to subsize their automobiiles at the Tune of 7500$ plus carbon tax stuff. I do not think Alta has this advantage going for them.

TXDirt

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7/25/2017 2:32 PM



downard254

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7/25/2017 2:36 PM

Brent wrote:

The KTM has been around in Europe for while now, more of a play bike than the Alta.

I'd guess KTM's bike was more of a test mule, but what the hell do I know.

APLMAN99

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7/25/2017 4:25 PM

bayodome wrote:

Alta is in a similar position to Tesla at the moment. They're small but have the best electric option by far. The Freeride E (which I've ridden on a few occasions) is fun but is more in the realm of a TTR125 than a full-size bike. I'm sure there are some great things coming in the near future from the big OEMs, but for now Alta is the only true full size MX bike out there.

endurox wrote:

Tesla is getting you and I to subsize their automobiiles at the Tune of 7500$ plus carbon tax stuff. I do not think Alta has this advantage going for them.

They do on their street legal bikes. It's roughly a similar percentage, $1500 on a RedShift SM.

dcg141

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7/25/2017 5:41 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/25/2017 5:46 PM

Speaking as a dealer, I think the retail price needs to come down before its a viable option. I believe KTM feels the same way and knows that that is still a few years away.

Swann

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7/25/2017 5:52 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/25/2017 5:59 PM

APLMAN99 wrote:

The Alta gang is from the original Tesla team. I'd bet that fact alone would bring some decent VC capital to the plate when they do funding rounds.....

Alta has had five funding rounds, the most recent being a $27 million series B funding in June of this year.

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/brd-motorcycles#

The big boys are not nimble enough to take this kind of risk. They do not have the deep coffers to spin up a massive R&D, design and manufacturing effort and focus on releasing an entirely and fundamentally different product. They also risk cannibalizing their traditional bike sales in certain markets like the United States and would need more than a few years to plan for and adjust things to gracefully make a transition like that. Frankly I don't think that they took this seriously enough or didn't anticipated the pace that somebody like Alta would introduce something like this.

Alta is an acquisition target or will stand-alone and continue to innovate and release new products/offerings through continued capital investment or, like Tesla, will go public to raise funds. Their battery pack (which is proprietary IP) and motor combo alone has applications that extend beyond motorcycles. They still have quite a number of bike models they could release within the next year or so. They also were partners in a military contract to build a special hybrid military bike called "Silent Hawk"

http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/05/look-militarys-new-stealth-bikes/128577/

Alta will become more than just another motorcycle company. They already are not just another motorcycle company. Pretty cool to see a little disruption in what has been a pretty stagnant and tumultuous market for a very long time.

APLMAN99

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7/25/2017 6:05 PM

kkawboy14 wrote:

My guess is Alta will have a hard time competing against the big motorcycle companies. A lot of lawn equipment electric stuff from small companies either got sold or closed due to the sales going to the bigger names offering better warranties and service.

So far in the car industry people will point to Tesla as success against the big companies but for sure that is an unusual financial backing by the owner, businesses and government combination.

APLMAN99 wrote:

The Alta gang is from the original Tesla team. I'd bet that fact alone would bring some decent VC capital to the plate when they do funding rounds.....

Swann wrote:

Alta has had five funding rounds, the most recent being a $27 million series B funding in June of this year.

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/brd-motorcycles#

The big boys are not nimble enough to take this kind of risk. They do not have the deep coffers to spin up a massive R&D, design and manufacturing effort and focus on releasing an entirely and fundamentally different product. They also risk cannibalizing their traditional bike sales in certain markets like the United States and would need more than a few years to plan for and adjust things to gracefully make a transition like that. Frankly I don't think that they took this seriously enough or didn't anticipated the pace that somebody like Alta would introduce something like this.

Alta is an acquisition target or will stand-alone and continue to innovate and release new products/offerings through continued capital investment or, like Tesla, will go public to raise funds. Their battery pack (which is proprietary IP) and motor combo alone has applications that extend beyond motorcycles. They still have quite a number of bike models they could release within the next year or so. They also were partners in a military contract to build a special hybrid military bike called "Silent Hawk"

http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/05/look-militarys-new-stealth-bikes/128577/

Alta will become more than just another motorcycle company. They already are not just another motorcycle company. Pretty cool to see a little disruption in what has been a pretty stagnant and tumultuous market for a very long time.

Interesting to see that Tesla has already invested in them. Also Bob Fox........

APLMAN99

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7/25/2017 6:14 PM

bayodome wrote:

Alta is in a similar position to Tesla at the moment. They're small but have the best electric option by far. The Freeride E (which I've ridden on a few occasions) is fun but is more in the realm of a TTR125 than a full-size bike. I'm sure there are some great things coming in the near future from the big OEMs, but for now Alta is the only true full size MX bike out there.

I think the Zero is fairly viable, although they don't seem to be as interested in an off road competition type of bike at the moment. But according to their website, they have over 100 law enforcement agencies using their fleet services.

Be interesting to see how Zero's battery development progresses to see if they can stay a viable maker......

APLMAN99

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7/25/2017 6:22 PM

Swann

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7/25/2017 6:40 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/25/2017 6:50 PM

Holy crap I had no idea that happened to Sarah Whitmore. That's horrible... I bet they chose the Zero bike because of the exhaust issue inside of United Center without any real consideration to the suitability of the bike.

That definitely doesn't bode well for Zero and Feld has a role in that as well. Yikes.

mark911

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7/25/2017 6:53 PM

I've noticed that all the Alta dealers here in SoCal are also KTM dealers. Coincidence? After I bought my Redshift I actually applied to start a new Alta dealership here in the Inland Empire but never heard back from Alta.


Retired Mechanical Engineer, published technical writer, mscperformance.com, Bisimotoengineering.com,

APLMAN99

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7/25/2017 7:01 PM

APLMAN99 wrote:

Well, this might cancel out Zero from future development......

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/stuntwoman-sues-for-injuries-suffered-during-marvel-universe-live-show/

Swann wrote:

Holy crap I had no idea that happened to Sarah Whitmore. That's horrible... I bet they chose the Zero bike because of the exhaust issue inside of United Center without any real consideration to the suitability of the bike.

That definitely doesn't bode well for Zero and Feld has a role in that as well. Yikes.

Yeah, could go any which way. But it sounds like the bike was a year and a half old and if it was used heavily as a "stunt bike" each weekend, that could add up to an awful lot of abuse, stress, etc.

Jbulz

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7/25/2017 7:04 PM

APLMAN99 wrote:

Well, this might cancel out Zero from future development......

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/stuntwoman-sues-for-injuries-suffered-during-marvel-universe-live-show/

Swann wrote:

Holy crap I had no idea that happened to Sarah Whitmore. That's horrible... I bet they chose the Zero bike because of the exhaust issue inside of United Center without any real consideration to the suitability of the bike.

That definitely doesn't bode well for Zero and Feld has a role in that as well. Yikes.

Wow that is terrible.

I haven't heard much about Zero's off-road efforts, but I did get to test ride a Zero off-road bike at Southwick about 8-10 years ago. That bike was cool to try, but was little more than a motorized mountain bike, and they wouldn't let us take the bike anywhere else than the start straight, because the track was too rough.

It was a cool experience to ride it, but no way would I consider jumping one...

Swann

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7/25/2017 8:20 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/25/2017 8:22 PM

mark911 wrote:

I've noticed that all the Alta dealers here in SoCal are also KTM dealers. Coincidence? After I bought my Redshift I actually applied to start a new Alta dealership here in the Inland Empire but never heard back from Alta.


Only coincidence is the market for KTMs is the same as for an Alta. Someone willing to spend $10k on a KTM will likely spend $15k on an Alta, assuming they understand and appreciate the value there (which is a very different value judgement than buying a normal dirt bike).

The Inland Empire isn't going to be a strong market for a $15k motorcycle right now. As someone mentioned earlier, the price will need to come down before it's approachable to the average buyer.

burn1986

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7/25/2017 9:05 PM

$15K will never be appropriate, especially over the next 5 years. If they could get it down to maybe $8-9K, maybe.

racingfortheson

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7/25/2017 10:06 PM

kkawboy14 wrote:

My guess is Alta will have a hard time competing against the big motorcycle companies. A lot of lawn equipment electric stuff from small companies either got sold or closed due to the sales going to the bigger names offering better warranties and service.

So far in the car industry people will point to Tesla as success against the big companies but for sure that is an unusual financial backing by the owner, businesses and government combination.

When Honda, toyota, ford or gm start making there e-cars that are not just tiny tree hugger cars, Tesla will be in trouble.