KTM 4cs failure...?

d394
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Middletown, NY US
Edited Date/Time 2/28/2015 1:49pm
First of all I want to introduce myself as iv'e been "lurking" on this forum for years, yet never registered. My name is Dan I'm 22 years old, 15+ years race experience and local A rider from NY.

A few months ago, I went out and picked up a brand new 2015 KTM250sx. This bike is my first KTM since my mini days and iv'e been anxious for this season to break out the new 2 smoker. Recently, I sent out my suspension to Factory connection for a revalve service and was in disbelief of what they had reported back to me in concern of the forks. Despite of having less than ten hours of practice time, FC reported that the lower fork tubes have been "rippled". That being said, the FC associate seemed to be in disbelief that this failure had happened, especially components with such low hours. My concern is how can KTM proclaim "ready to race" when these 4cs forks seem to be made of some "tin foil" equivalent material. Iv'e not experience any large crashes or any landings out of the ordinary for any A level rider. Honestly, I have never witnessed this type of failure ever. Is this something I should contact KTM with? Has anyone experience this ? Please voice your opinion on this situation, This has seriously impacted my opinion towards KTM manufacturing and the safety of their equipment.

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Jim Lahey
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2/27/2015 9:16pm
Im pretty sure KTM issued a recall on that particular fork, I dont know if its the same issue that youre having though
bvm111
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Las Vegas, NV US
2/27/2015 9:17pm
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow!

do you have a picture of the failure?

Don't knock KTM as this is a WP issue by your description, have you heard of the Suzuki/Showa issue on the 2015 RM450 forks.... that's catastrophic failure.... Yikes!
d394
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Middletown, NY US
2/27/2015 9:35pm
bvm111 wrote:
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow! do you have a picture of the failure? Don't knock...
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow!

do you have a picture of the failure?

Don't knock KTM as this is a WP issue by your description, have you heard of the Suzuki/Showa issue on the 2015 RM450 forks.... that's catastrophic failure.... Yikes!
yes plenty of snow here, the time I had put on the bike came before then snow! Im now aware of the suzuki/showa failures... but I believe you're correct in it being more of a WP issue.I don't have any pictures as the forks are not in my possession at the moment. Im basically worried these forks will continue to fail and or cause harm to my safety.
crusher773
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Coweta, OK US
2/27/2015 9:38pm
You will find that KTM is much better about taking care of warranty items than anyone else. I would contact them once you more info and photos.

The Shop

2/28/2015 2:18am
d394 wrote:
First of all I want to introduce myself as iv'e been "lurking" on this forum for years, yet never registered. My name is Dan I'm 22...
First of all I want to introduce myself as iv'e been "lurking" on this forum for years, yet never registered. My name is Dan I'm 22 years old, 15+ years race experience and local A rider from NY.

A few months ago, I went out and picked up a brand new 2015 KTM250sx. This bike is my first KTM since my mini days and iv'e been anxious for this season to break out the new 2 smoker. Recently, I sent out my suspension to Factory connection for a revalve service and was in disbelief of what they had reported back to me in concern of the forks. Despite of having less than ten hours of practice time, FC reported that the lower fork tubes have been "rippled". That being said, the FC associate seemed to be in disbelief that this failure had happened, especially components with such low hours. My concern is how can KTM proclaim "ready to race" when these 4cs forks seem to be made of some "tin foil" equivalent material. Iv'e not experience any large crashes or any landings out of the ordinary for any A level rider. Honestly, I have never witnessed this type of failure ever. Is this something I should contact KTM with? Has anyone experience this ? Please voice your opinion on this situation, This has seriously impacted my opinion towards KTM manufacturing and the safety of their equipment.

What's your KTM dealers take on all of this? Surely they would listen to the concerns of a local A level rider. Did you not notice any changes in their performance before sending them off?
HenryA
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Stockholm SE
2/28/2015 2:59am
crusher773 wrote:
You will find that KTM is much better about taking care of warranty items than anyone else. I would contact them once you more info and...
You will find that KTM is much better about taking care of warranty items than anyone else. I would contact them once you more info and photos.
This. Give them a call, I'm sure they can sort this out. And ask FC if they can send you a few pictures of the fork.
mx317
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TN US
2/28/2015 5:21am
bvm111 wrote:
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow! do you have a picture of the failure? Don't knock...
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow!

do you have a picture of the failure?

Don't knock KTM as this is a WP issue by your description, have you heard of the Suzuki/Showa issue on the 2015 RM450 forks.... that's catastrophic failure.... Yikes!
Those pictures floating around of broken upper tubes were on 2013 Suzukis. I haven't seen anything on the 15s.
Pat
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CA
2/28/2015 5:29am
possibly a manufacturing defect, KTM people do care and Id be suprised if they don't help.
Trav138
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2/28/2015 5:33am
bvm111 wrote:
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow! do you have a picture of the failure? Don't knock...
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow!

do you have a picture of the failure?

Don't knock KTM as this is a WP issue by your description, have you heard of the Suzuki/Showa issue on the 2015 RM450 forks.... that's catastrophic failure.... Yikes!
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures"

D394 have you spoke to your dealer?, i havn't heard of those type of problems with the 4cs fork. Were they stock before you sent to FC? I would start with your dealer to let them know then go from there.
2/28/2015 6:02am
Jim Lahey wrote:
Im pretty sure KTM issued a recall on that particular fork, I dont know if its the same issue that youre having though
Due to a change in production process, the threaded connection between the piston rod and screw cap may not be sufficiently tight. If the piston rod detaches from the screw cap, this will result in damage to the inside of the fork and it may seize.
It's about the piston rod. Not the leg itself.

Contact your dealer about the issue anyway. I'm sure KTM wil resolve the issue without a hassle. I know a guy that got a brand new frame for an old '08 bike after he discovered a crack close to the motor mount. Made pics, contacted KTM trough this form: http://www.ktm.com/contact.html and got a brand new frame mailed to his doorstep for free.
mxb2
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Bowie, MD US
2/28/2015 6:05am
bvm111 wrote:
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow! do you have a picture of the failure? Don't knock...
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow!

do you have a picture of the failure?

Don't knock KTM as this is a WP issue by your description, have you heard of the Suzuki/Showa issue on the 2015 RM450 forks.... that's catastrophic failure.... Yikes!
Trav138 wrote:
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures" D394 have you spoke...
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures"

D394 have you spoke to your dealer?, i havn't heard of those type of problems with the 4cs fork. Were they stock before you sent to FC? I would start with your dealer to let them know then go from there.
it was a 2013 rmz 250 tube that was broken, involving a crash also., so who knows what really happened., i have a 13 rmz 450, so far so good.
jhansen510
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2/28/2015 6:23am
bvm111 wrote:
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow! do you have a picture of the failure? Don't knock...
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow!

do you have a picture of the failure?

Don't knock KTM as this is a WP issue by your description, have you heard of the Suzuki/Showa issue on the 2015 RM450 forks.... that's catastrophic failure.... Yikes!
Trav138 wrote:
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures" D394 have you spoke...
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures"

D394 have you spoke to your dealer?, i havn't heard of those type of problems with the 4cs fork. Were they stock before you sent to FC? I would start with your dealer to let them know then go from there.
mxb2 wrote:
it was a 2013 rmz 250 tube that was broken, involving a crash also., so who knows what really happened., i have a 13 rmz 450...
it was a 2013 rmz 250 tube that was broken, involving a crash also., so who knows what really happened., i have a 13 rmz 450, so far so good.
The 13 rmz 250 fork issue is no myth! I know 6 guys that have all had the same issue!
mxb2
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Bowie, MD US
2/28/2015 6:25am
Trav138 wrote:
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures" D394 have you spoke...
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures"

D394 have you spoke to your dealer?, i havn't heard of those type of problems with the 4cs fork. Were they stock before you sent to FC? I would start with your dealer to let them know then go from there.
mxb2 wrote:
it was a 2013 rmz 250 tube that was broken, involving a crash also., so who knows what really happened., i have a 13 rmz 450...
it was a 2013 rmz 250 tube that was broken, involving a crash also., so who knows what really happened., i have a 13 rmz 450, so far so good.
jhansen510 wrote:
The 13 rmz 250 fork issue is no myth! I know 6 guys that have all had the same issue!
scary stuff, i hope they contacted suzuki.
RPM68
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DFW, TX US
2/28/2015 6:38am
When racing the 14 LLQ at Cycle Ranch, I launched a Downhill in an attempt to make a last lap pass, upon doing so it blew out the rebound side fork seal...Completely. I made the pass though. Oil blew completely out, and KTM replaced the red fork seals with the strong Green seals. With that being said, when I worked at a dealer, Factory connection has pointed out flaws numerous times on KTMs 4cs forks and KTM wouldnt do anything about it. I dont know if there is bad blood there or what. It was on a 2014 450 FE also.

After I met Roger D at a supercross party, he told me to contact george at KTM, and I actually swapped the 4cs forks with traditional 2012 SX Forks. That is what im running on my 14 300 XC, compared to the harsh 4cs setup.
d394
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2/28/2015 7:04am
thanks everybody, Im going to contact ktm and see what they say about the failure.
Bruce372
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2/28/2015 7:04am
bvm111 wrote:
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow! do you have a picture of the failure? Don't knock...
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow!

do you have a picture of the failure?

Don't knock KTM as this is a WP issue by your description, have you heard of the Suzuki/Showa issue on the 2015 RM450 forks.... that's catastrophic failure.... Yikes!
Trav138 wrote:
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures" D394 have you spoke...
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures"

D394 have you spoke to your dealer?, i havn't heard of those type of problems with the 4cs fork. Were they stock before you sent to FC? I would start with your dealer to let them know then go from there.
Is that a 2015 in your Sig pic???
Bruce372
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2/28/2015 7:12am
I hope the op gets this issue taken care of, especially since ktm cost a premium.

So far in 2015 there has been a recall on Yamaha and ktm, which I found ironic since people always tout these brands for quality and reliability.
2/28/2015 7:17am
bvm111 wrote:
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow! do you have a picture of the failure? Don't knock...
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow!

do you have a picture of the failure?

Don't knock KTM as this is a WP issue by your description, have you heard of the Suzuki/Showa issue on the 2015 RM450 forks.... that's catastrophic failure.... Yikes!
Suzuki for 15' has zero fork issues thus far. Non that I have seen atleast...
Trav138
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2/28/2015 8:22am
bvm111 wrote:
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow! do you have a picture of the failure? Don't knock...
where you riding in the blizzard I thought you guys were all buried in the snow!

do you have a picture of the failure?

Don't knock KTM as this is a WP issue by your description, have you heard of the Suzuki/Showa issue on the 2015 RM450 forks.... that's catastrophic failure.... Yikes!
Trav138 wrote:
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures" D394 have you spoke...
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures"

D394 have you spoke to your dealer?, i havn't heard of those type of problems with the 4cs fork. Were they stock before you sent to FC? I would start with your dealer to let them know then go from there.
Bruce372 wrote:
Is that a 2015 in your Sig pic???
Na just my 08 rm 250
I'm getting a new bike this spring but i'm really undecided between 3 or 4 bike choices
Bruce do you have a 15 rmz?
Bruce372
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2/28/2015 8:28am
Trav138 wrote:
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures" D394 have you spoke...
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures"

D394 have you spoke to your dealer?, i havn't heard of those type of problems with the 4cs fork. Were they stock before you sent to FC? I would start with your dealer to let them know then go from there.
Bruce372 wrote:
Is that a 2015 in your Sig pic???
Trav138 wrote:
Na just my 08 rm 250 I'm getting a new bike this spring but i'm really undecided between 3 or 4 bike choices Bruce do you...
Na just my 08 rm 250
I'm getting a new bike this spring but i'm really undecided between 3 or 4 bike choices
Bruce do you have a 15 rmz?
Yes, I was trying to figure out how you know the fork is hard to setup?

Mxa say it is, but then again they didn't want efi and even get boots made to 1975 specs!
Bruce372
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2/28/2015 8:52am
Trav138 wrote:
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures" D394 have you spoke...
Can you elaborate on the 15 Showa/suzuki issue. Other than being difficult to set up i havn 't heard any "catastrophic failures"

D394 have you spoke to your dealer?, i havn't heard of those type of problems with the 4cs fork. Were they stock before you sent to FC? I would start with your dealer to let them know then go from there.
Bruce372 wrote:
Is that a 2015 in your Sig pic???
Trav138 wrote:
Na just my 08 rm 250 I'm getting a new bike this spring but i'm really undecided between 3 or 4 bike choices Bruce do you...
Na just my 08 rm 250
I'm getting a new bike this spring but i'm really undecided between 3 or 4 bike choices
Bruce do you have a 15 rmz?
yep, ive had a lot of RMs, and this one is really, really well made.
Trav138
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2/28/2015 9:35am Edited Date/Time 2/28/2015 9:38am
Bruce372 wrote:
Is that a 2015 in your Sig pic???
Trav138 wrote:
Na just my 08 rm 250 I'm getting a new bike this spring but i'm really undecided between 3 or 4 bike choices Bruce do you...
Na just my 08 rm 250
I'm getting a new bike this spring but i'm really undecided between 3 or 4 bike choices
Bruce do you have a 15 rmz?
Bruce372 wrote:
Yes, I was trying to figure out how you know the fork is hard to setup? Mxa say it is, but then again they didn't want...
Yes, I was trying to figure out how you know the fork is hard to setup?

Mxa say it is, but then again they didn't want efi and even get boots made to 1975 specs!
well it s a learning process for us, we have 2 rmz s in the family that we only have 2 indoor ride sessions on so far. For most people this is a complicated fork to set up, like most things though it just takes some time working with it! And i'm positive we can make it work. The weather just hasn 't cooperated though.

Does that satisfy your curiosity?
Bruce372
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2/28/2015 11:01am
Trav138 wrote:
Na just my 08 rm 250 I'm getting a new bike this spring but i'm really undecided between 3 or 4 bike choices Bruce do you...
Na just my 08 rm 250
I'm getting a new bike this spring but i'm really undecided between 3 or 4 bike choices
Bruce do you have a 15 rmz?
Bruce372 wrote:
Yes, I was trying to figure out how you know the fork is hard to setup? Mxa say it is, but then again they didn't want...
Yes, I was trying to figure out how you know the fork is hard to setup?

Mxa say it is, but then again they didn't want efi and even get boots made to 1975 specs!
Trav138 wrote:
well it s a learning process for us, we have 2 rmz s in the family that we only have 2 indoor ride sessions on so...
well it s a learning process for us, we have 2 rmz s in the family that we only have 2 indoor ride sessions on so far. For most people this is a complicated fork to set up, like most things though it just takes some time working with it! And i'm positive we can make it work. The weather just hasn 't cooperated though.

Does that satisfy your curiosity?
Cool. Post back process when you get them dialed. Still waiting for the snow to melt here

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