KTM 350 - Cairoli

Faceaz
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4/12/2010 8:25pm Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 12:25am
Did I miss something - where's the 350 trash talking:

I've read so much of the "a 350 can't be competitive against 450's shit"

Cairoli leading the Championship: Worked his way through the pack one moto & holeshot the second.

Early in it's development & winning.

Have the nay-sayers accepted the 350 is a good displacement?
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Masonry
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4/12/2010 8:26pm
Nobody has said that. You are not "shutting up the haters"
DanDunes818
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4/12/2010 8:37pm
Faceaz wrote:
Did I miss something - where's the 350 trash talking: I've read so much of the "a 350 can't be competitive against 450's shit" Cairoli leading...
Did I miss something - where's the 350 trash talking:

I've read so much of the "a 350 can't be competitive against 450's shit"

Cairoli leading the Championship: Worked his way through the pack one moto & holeshot the second.

Early in it's development & winning.

Have the nay-sayers accepted the 350 is a good displacement?
I'd really like to agree with you but I've heard more hype than hate about the 350. Sure there are people out there that say stupid shit about the 350 simply because it's a KTM ..I hear allot of Americans that hate the KTM's in general but most people think the 350 is a great idea. I personally think the 350 cc motor is going to take over sx eventually. I'm pretty sure the other OEM's will be making 350s soon enough too. Seems obvious to me with guys on 250fs running faster lap times then the 450's that the 350 would even be better on a sx track. I've always thought the 250fs are not enough power and the 450's were too much so I know if I ever buy a new bike it will be a 350. Of course that depends on being able to get one before they sell out.

And yes Cairoli looks awesome on it. But does he look better then he did on the Yamaha? I'm not sure. I personally think TC could win on a TM ,Aprilla or any bike for that matter.
Faceaz
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4/12/2010 9:28pm
Masonry wrote:
Nobody has said that. You are not "shutting up the haters"
Nobody said that - but there is haters?

Something about you reminds me of Rod Blagojevich.
CamP
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4/12/2010 9:34pm Edited Date/Time 4/12/2010 9:35pm
How much does Cairoli weigh? I'd imagine that peak horsepower isn't as important for Tony as it is for a big guy like DeDyker.

The Shop

MXR
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4/12/2010 9:35pm
GH should be a good test for the KTM 350 . Have the GPs been to a deep sand track yet ?
Faceaz
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4/12/2010 9:45pm
MXR wrote:
GH should be a good test for the KTM 350 . Have the GPs been to a deep sand track yet ?
Agreed on that. Looks like Italy was loose sandy dirt, but nothing compared to GH's hills or sand.
need love
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4/12/2010 9:47pm
Bring back the Smoker's and kill the 4-pukes they cost more than a new car by the time ya build the motor and put some good legs under the dam thing. KTM your doing good
DanDunes818
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4/12/2010 9:50pm Edited Date/Time 4/12/2010 9:50pm
MXR wrote:
GH should be a good test for the KTM 350 . Have the GPs been to a deep sand track yet ?
The week that just past was sandy but no there hasn't been a real deep sand race yet. In two weeks the GP series heads to Valkenswaarsd which is a deep all sand track. So I guess we'll see how it works in the sand real soon. Valkenswaard like allot of sand tracks is all about momentum and I think TC will be able to carry plenty of momentum on the 350..
jmar
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4/12/2010 9:56pm
It's the uphills that will show the loss of that 100ccs.

I think it could be a great supercross bike. Outdoors it's going to struggle against the 450 with out someone like TC or MA aboard.
Localsteez
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4/12/2010 10:13pm
jmar wrote:
It's the uphills that will show the loss of that 100ccs. I think it could be a great supercross bike. Outdoors it's going to struggle against...
It's the uphills that will show the loss of that 100ccs.

I think it could be a great supercross bike. Outdoors it's going to struggle against the 450 with out someone like TC or MA aboard.
I agree indoors it would be ideal but I don't know how you could justify giving up 100 c.c.'s against any of the top pros. It seems that you would be at a huge disadvantage before the gate even dropped.
JB 19
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4/12/2010 10:19pm
Personally, I think the smaller bikes shine outdoors where the tracks get really rough and tore up. Thats where the lower weight and better handling are really noticed.

I have noticed that a 450 really becomes a handful on a really tackey rutted and rough track. Not so much on a small smooth sx style track.
orangecrush
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4/12/2010 10:41pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:05pm
jmar wrote:
It's the uphills that will show the loss of that 100ccs. I think it could be a great supercross bike. Outdoors it's going to struggle against...
It's the uphills that will show the loss of that 100ccs.

I think it could be a great supercross bike. Outdoors it's going to struggle against the 450 with out someone like TC or MA aboard.
Hmmm..,,Do you guys really believe yourselves? Have you watched the races yet where Cairoli not only holeshots his 350 against the 450's (yes folks, that's 100cc's less) and not only leads start to finish, but pulls everyone on the uphills (and they aren't small)?


Have you seen Cairoli come from behind against 450's where he's down on displacement by 100cc's?


You guys really need to get out from under the rocks that you live under and pay attention. He blowing by his own teamate thats riding a 450!. Folks wake up, KTM has a killer bike here and it's fast! Really fast.
Localsteez
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4/12/2010 10:49pm
jmar wrote:
It's the uphills that will show the loss of that 100ccs. I think it could be a great supercross bike. Outdoors it's going to struggle against...
It's the uphills that will show the loss of that 100ccs.

I think it could be a great supercross bike. Outdoors it's going to struggle against the 450 with out someone like TC or MA aboard.
Hmmm..,,Do you guys really believe yourselves? Have you watched the races yet where Cairoli not only holeshots his 350 against the 450's (yes folks, that's 100cc's...
Hmmm..,,Do you guys really believe yourselves? Have you watched the races yet where Cairoli not only holeshots his 350 against the 450's (yes folks, that's 100cc's less) and not only leads start to finish, but pulls everyone on the uphills (and they aren't small)?


Have you seen Cairoli come from behind against 450's where he's down on displacement by 100cc's?


You guys really need to get out from under the rocks that you live under and pay attention. He blowing by his own teamate thats riding a 450!. Folks wake up, KTM has a killer bike here and it's fast! Really fast.
So its the bike that is that fast. If so why isn't Alessi running up there with him. Maybe it is just that Cairoli is that fast? I have nothing against KTM or the 350, it just seems like it would be a disadvantage outdoors.
CamP
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4/12/2010 10:50pm Edited Date/Time 4/12/2010 10:52pm
There's no replacement for displacement. AC can win on a 350F because he is a lightweight. I've watched both MX1 GP's and Cairoli is handicapped with the 350F. You can see it when he is trying to pass, but he's aggressive and light, so he can make it work.
MXR
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4/12/2010 10:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:05pm
Hmmm..,,Do you guys really believe yourselves? Have you watched the races yet where Cairoli not only holeshots his 350 against the 450's (yes folks, that's 100cc's...
Hmmm..,,Do you guys really believe yourselves? Have you watched the races yet where Cairoli not only holeshots his 350 against the 450's (yes folks, that's 100cc's less) and not only leads start to finish, but pulls everyone on the uphills (and they aren't small)?


Have you seen Cairoli come from behind against 450's where he's down on displacement by 100cc's?


You guys really need to get out from under the rocks that you live under and pay attention. He blowing by his own teamate thats riding a 450!. Folks wake up, KTM has a killer bike here and it's fast! Really fast.
A 350 four stroke is only 50 cc less than the original 400 Yam YZF premix killer that Doug Henry rode . Four strokes have came a long way since then .

Bring back the open class run what ya brung and let em run 250s 350s 450s 500cc Aluminum framed two strokes and four strokes in the same class
orangecrush
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4/12/2010 10:54pm
jmar wrote:
It's the uphills that will show the loss of that 100ccs. I think it could be a great supercross bike. Outdoors it's going to struggle against...
It's the uphills that will show the loss of that 100ccs.

I think it could be a great supercross bike. Outdoors it's going to struggle against the 450 with out someone like TC or MA aboard.
Hmmm..,,Do you guys really believe yourselves? Have you watched the races yet where Cairoli not only holeshots his 350 against the 450's (yes folks, that's 100cc's...
Hmmm..,,Do you guys really believe yourselves? Have you watched the races yet where Cairoli not only holeshots his 350 against the 450's (yes folks, that's 100cc's less) and not only leads start to finish, but pulls everyone on the uphills (and they aren't small)?


Have you seen Cairoli come from behind against 450's where he's down on displacement by 100cc's?


You guys really need to get out from under the rocks that you live under and pay attention. He blowing by his own teamate thats riding a 450!. Folks wake up, KTM has a killer bike here and it's fast! Really fast.
Localsteez wrote:
So its the bike that is [i]that[/i] fast. If so why isn't Alessi running up there with him. Maybe it is just that Cairoli is that...
So its the bike that is that fast. If so why isn't Alessi running up there with him. Maybe it is just that Cairoli is that fast? I have nothing against KTM or the 350, it just seems like it would be a disadvantage outdoors.
Perhaps because Allessi is here in SoCal and not racing the World GP Circuit. Wow!
orangecrush
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4/12/2010 10:59pm Edited Date/Time 4/12/2010 11:00pm
CamP wrote:
There's no replacement for displacement. AC can win on a 350F because he is a lightweight. I've watched both MX1 GP's and Cairoli is handicapped with...
There's no replacement for displacement. AC can win on a 350F because he is a lightweight. I've watched both MX1 GP's and Cairoli is handicapped with the 350F. You can see it when he is trying to pass, but he's aggressive and light, so he can make it work.
Even AC admits that on some tracks he's at a disadvantage on a 350 - this of coarse was after he won the race and was speaking to reporters. Even if "handicapped" on the straights, he still has an advantage everywhere else my friend. Races are won in the turns, remember. Even he admits that whatever the bike lacks in displacement, he still has an advantage over his competition. Considering he's won most of the races already, I'd have to agree with him.
Yaya
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4/12/2010 11:01pm
Antonio looks good at Montova from watching it. I was hoping Albertson could have pulled it off though but he also was doing well. As far as that bike goes just look at the starts Nagl has been getting. I was watching him run the outside on Albertson and not lose too much ground and it looks to be a bit more flickable than the others.
Localsteez
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4/12/2010 11:01pm
Yes, but when they raced against each other what was the outcome?
orangecrush
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4/12/2010 11:14pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:05pm
Here's what I know.


1.) a guy riding an unproven 350 bike is leading the 450 class

2.) What I keep hearing - "but he's at a disadvantage" or "he is a lightweight" or "he's handicapped"


Man, you guys need to stop focusing on displacement and start realizing that it's not about displacement - its about how light the bike is, its about how much easier it is to ride and how less taxing it is late in the moto, the turning, etc, etc.


I'm generally a glass is half empty kinda guy, but some of you are just caught up on displacement and missing all the other reasons why this bike is leading the world championship - and yes, the rider has a LOT to do with it as well. No argument here.
Localsteez
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4/12/2010 11:32pm
Here's what I know. 1.) a guy riding an unproven 350 bike is leading the 450 class 2.) What I keep hearing - "but he's at...
Here's what I know.


1.) a guy riding an unproven 350 bike is leading the 450 class

2.) What I keep hearing - "but he's at a disadvantage" or "he is a lightweight" or "he's handicapped"


Man, you guys need to stop focusing on displacement and start realizing that it's not about displacement - its about how light the bike is, its about how much easier it is to ride and how less taxing it is late in the moto, the turning, etc, etc.


I'm generally a glass is half empty kinda guy, but some of you are just caught up on displacement and missing all the other reasons why this bike is leading the world championship - and yes, the rider has a LOT to do with it as well. No argument here.
That's defiantly a compelling argument. I think it will be a great all around bike. I'm not sure how it will do in the states and it's defiantly hard to judge a bike based on one rider whether that be with Alessi not doing so well or the flip side of the Cairoli killing it, given there are so many variables. I haven't seen the specs on it to see how much lighter it is or anything like that but if it truly feels lighter and is easier to ride then it could be an advantage in some instances. I guess we will find out this summer or when they release the bike for the public.
Localsteez
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4/12/2010 11:36pm
On another note though, with all the advantages it might have, 100c.c.'s still is a lot to give up in the pro's. Of course its could be making close to the same amount of horsepower as the 450 so I guess time will tell it will be interesting either way.
DanDunes818
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4/12/2010 11:37pm
Yaya wrote:
Antonio looks good at Montova from watching it. I was hoping Albertson could have pulled it off though but he also was doing well. As far...
Antonio looks good at Montova from watching it. I was hoping Albertson could have pulled it off though but he also was doing well. As far as that bike goes just look at the starts Nagl has been getting. I was watching him run the outside on Albertson and not lose too much ground and it looks to be a bit more flickable than the others.
YaYa...Nagl is on a 450..Cairoli and Rui Gonsalves are the only two in the GPs riding the 350 and Rui has been out injured the first two rounds so far.

Well Stefy Laier the top girl in the wmx is on a 350 too.. Which I think should be outlawed. I guess the girls class can ride whatever
kongols
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4/13/2010 12:16am
Yaya wrote:
Antonio looks good at Montova from watching it. I was hoping Albertson could have pulled it off though but he also was doing well. As far...
Antonio looks good at Montova from watching it. I was hoping Albertson could have pulled it off though but he also was doing well. As far as that bike goes just look at the starts Nagl has been getting. I was watching him run the outside on Albertson and not lose too much ground and it looks to be a bit more flickable than the others.
Nagl is on 450
Yaya
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4/13/2010 12:28am
Haha thanks guys. My screw up, sorry. I was wondering how he was getting great starts in bulgaria Tongue
motowhore
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4/13/2010 12:36am
jmar wrote:
It's the uphills that will show the loss of that 100ccs. I think it could be a great supercross bike. Outdoors it's going to struggle against...
It's the uphills that will show the loss of that 100ccs.

I think it could be a great supercross bike. Outdoors it's going to struggle against the 450 with out someone like TC or MA aboard.
Hmmm..,,Do you guys really believe yourselves? Have you watched the races yet where Cairoli not only holeshots his 350 against the 450's (yes folks, that's 100cc's...
Hmmm..,,Do you guys really believe yourselves? Have you watched the races yet where Cairoli not only holeshots his 350 against the 450's (yes folks, that's 100cc's less) and not only leads start to finish, but pulls everyone on the uphills (and they aren't small)?


Have you seen Cairoli come from behind against 450's where he's down on displacement by 100cc's?


You guys really need to get out from under the rocks that you live under and pay attention. He blowing by his own teamate thats riding a 450!. Folks wake up, KTM has a killer bike here and it's fast! Really fast.
Localsteez wrote:
So its the bike that is [i]that[/i] fast. If so why isn't Alessi running up there with him. Maybe it is just that Cairoli is that...
So its the bike that is that fast. If so why isn't Alessi running up there with him. Maybe it is just that Cairoli is that fast? I have nothing against KTM or the 350, it just seems like it would be a disadvantage outdoors.
Alessi just blew the doors off everyone at last weeks REM race at Glen Helen. No trouble getting up hills. Granted the top pros were not racing with him. Hahn was there though.
Huckster
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4/13/2010 3:48am
Yaya wrote:
Antonio looks good at Montova from watching it. I was hoping Albertson could have pulled it off though but he also was doing well. As far...
Antonio looks good at Montova from watching it. I was hoping Albertson could have pulled it off though but he also was doing well. As far as that bike goes just look at the starts Nagl has been getting. I was watching him run the outside on Albertson and not lose too much ground and it looks to be a bit more flickable than the others.
That underpowered 350 pulled the holeshot in moto 2 against Nagl and the rest of the 450's. I also remember a 250F laying wood to a host of 450's at a hilly track in MD one weekend not to long ago. Maybe it has more to do with the right wrist of the rider on board and not cc's?
robkinuk
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4/13/2010 3:57am
Localsteez wrote:
Yes, but when they raced against each other what was the outcome?
That was a pre -season Lemonade race as Carla used to call them! of no importance!

When the GP's started it's situation normal for Cairoli vs Albertson. Jimmy's doing good, but he's gonna have to find a whole new gear to rise up to the level of Cairoli, Nagel, Desalle, Phillipaerts etc.
4/13/2010 4:42am
Bulgaria had some mean uphills and the next GP is in valkenswaard, which is sand.

SO it will be a good test, just as GH will be.

But, if the current Champion prefers it to a full blown works 450, guess it's not bad.
(and he really had a choice, because KTM wants that title)

He already rode it on some heavy sand track in Italy, and he still likes it.
Sunhouse
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4/13/2010 4:45am
Some of you are in my opinion a little blinded by cc´s. Look back to the days of three classes: 125, 250, 500. At the various MXDN´s the quickest riders and lap times were usually in the 250 class. If memory serves me right MC had way better lap times than Emig in Spain in 1996, even though EMig was on the 500 (I knwo it was a rather "new" bike for him to ride). Usually the fastest lap times were in the 250 class regardless. Look at Everts in the 500 class in 2001 - his lap times were no were near what they had been in the 250s.

More cc´s don´t always make riders faster. There is a sweet spot where the pro´s and cons are favourable to a certain engine size, and KTM should be applauded for trying to find it. We´ve been bitching about the 450s being too powerful and if teh 350 is faster, there are still places were the 450 will shine. But throughout a race things might turn in favor of the 350

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