KTM 2 stroke dyno tuned by Harris Performance. Dyno chart inside.

Suns_PSD
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Austin, TX US
Hello, I've been away a while but decided to get my 2013 KTM 250 SX custom tuned by Derek Harris of Harris Performance in Central Texas this last week and get back on a dirt bike. I'm decent at jetting but had struggled a bit with this bike because I have a weird combo. I added a 300 cylinder to my 250SX. Then on top of that I stroked it 5mm for a total engine displacement of 314cc. I also wanted Derek to test my PV settings and ignition timing settings to verify I had tuned that for best overall performance.

I went thru 3 carbs on the bike some time back and settled on the Lectron and overall liked it greatly but I would have issues with slight pinging unless I ran the bike a bit rich and/ or with race fuel. It also didn't have much low end snap which I attributed to the port timing being all jacked up since I just added a spacer under my cylinder when I rigged up the stroker kit.

I dropped the bike off and Derek Harris dialed the jetting/ PV setting, and ignition setting on race gas. But he detected some low end leanness and after a call to Lectron they overnighted an updated needle profile directly to Derek. Those Lectron guys have a great product and excellent service btw.

With the new needle in hand Derek began testing again and found some more power pretty much everywhere. Down low and especially at the top He also had the bike running great on pump gas. I delivered the bike to him with race gas, which frankly I hate messing with so Derek went and bought some pump gas, mixed it up, and tested it himself in my bike. I'm really glad he did too! Of course I know I could pick up some low-mid if I went back to high compression and race gas but I don't want to mess with that any longer.

Below is the dyno results showing before and after hp & tq for my engine. Needless to say I'm very pleased and the price was beyond fair for what I got.

I'll also add that I've seen my dyno graph over-layed with several 450Fs powerbands and it holds it's own. Typical of a 2 stroke it's got less rpm to work with, but I will offset that with longer gearing to keep it in the high numbers longer. My days of riding my best are past me and I really want a long smooth powerband first and foremost. To sum up, my bike is notably stronger (7-8 rwhp) than a typical '09 CRF450. My bike peaks slightly above a '16 KX450F but has less overall power and tq. And a '16 SX450F pretty much whips my bike everywhere by 5hp/ 5tq, but then it does the same on all the other 450Fs.

I have not ridden the bike yet but should get some time on it this weekend and will report back.
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Suns_PSD
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12/8/2016 2:19am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2016 2:44am
See dyno results in post #5.
Suns_PSD
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12/8/2016 2:21am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2016 2:44am
Thanks Crush for posting dyno results in post #5.
Crush
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12/8/2016 2:34am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2016 2:41am
Email it to me, i'll sort it out somehow.
Crush
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12/8/2016 2:42am
And... presto!

The Shop

ehr400
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Britton, MI US
12/8/2016 3:24am
That is good to see, I love Dereks work, he did my YZ porting and it straight rips. His work and pricing and service is awesome. Plus he will chat with you on the phone on tech questions or shooting the shit. My buddy and I have both had our motors done by him and I dont plan on ever having someone else ever do motor work other then Derek.
Micahdogg
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12/8/2016 7:20am
Looks great, best part is its pump gas friendly. Wonder how that stacks up to the 350F since you are approaching similar cc range.
Deetsmx
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Visalia, CA US
12/8/2016 8:07am
Did you get the updated 4-2 needle? I think that's the one. Just put it in my bike and it seemed to help the low end.
RPM68
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12/8/2016 8:53am
I was never a fan of him personally, but after his success with 4-5 riders that I respect tremendously; i'd reccomend him to anyone on that side of Texas.

Way to go Cuz!
Suns_PSD
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12/8/2016 11:10am
Micahdogg wrote:
Looks great, best part is its pump gas friendly. Wonder how that stacks up to the 350F since you are approaching similar cc range.
I like to think of it as a dead reliable, lightweight, 350F bike. I think that's a solid comparison of the powerband and ever since the stroker it's always required you to keep the RPMs up high. Really, it's just not a modern 450F. the 450s have the same peak, but they hold near that number for a much longer amount of RPMs. Of course, 1/3 of my powerband that tops out at 9500 rpm, is different than 1/3 of a powerband that goes to 12000 rpm. If I have 3200 rpm in the powerband and they have 4000 in theirs, it's a wash really.

It would be fun to have my dyno chart mapped against a newer 350F. Ideally using speed, not RPM as the X axis.
flomiester
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Elwell, MI US
12/11/2016 8:27am
Micahdogg wrote:
Looks great, best part is its pump gas friendly. Wonder how that stacks up to the 350F since you are approaching similar cc range.
Suns_PSD wrote:
I like to think of it as a dead reliable, lightweight, 350F bike. I think that's a solid comparison of the powerband and ever since the...
I like to think of it as a dead reliable, lightweight, 350F bike. I think that's a solid comparison of the powerband and ever since the stroker it's always required you to keep the RPMs up high. Really, it's just not a modern 450F. the 450s have the same peak, but they hold near that number for a much longer amount of RPMs. Of course, 1/3 of my powerband that tops out at 9500 rpm, is different than 1/3 of a powerband that goes to 12000 rpm. If I have 3200 rpm in the powerband and they have 4000 in theirs, it's a wash really.

It would be fun to have my dyno chart mapped against a newer 350F. Ideally using speed, not RPM as the X axis.
Derick should be able to do that with the perf trends software the match up between the 350f and your sx in mph hes going to hate me sugesting it just more work its work if you want to see it pay him
12/11/2016 3:23pm
The new ktm 300 supposedly has 5 more hp in the midrange than the older engines, so I wonder how much more he can get from the new 300? Ive got a new bike in my future, and if the 300 is as strong as a 3504t then im staying smoker.
RockyRider
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12/11/2016 8:07pm
ehr400 wrote:
That is good to see, I love Dereks work, he did my YZ porting and it straight rips. His work and pricing and service is awesome...
That is good to see, I love Dereks work, he did my YZ porting and it straight rips. His work and pricing and service is awesome. Plus he will chat with you on the phone on tech questions or shooting the shit. My buddy and I have both had our motors done by him and I dont plan on ever having someone else ever do motor work other then Derek.
Odd question, but did you notice worse mileage/using more gas after he did the work? Im playing with the idea of him doing my YZ cylinder as well, but cant afford to lose any more mileage out of a tank. It's bad enough as it is..
12/11/2016 8:25pm Edited Date/Time 12/11/2016 8:29pm
As a side note, this isnt one of our builds, just a test and tune of something sun put together and wanted some results on... plus a tune if I could find any gains.

On most carb bikes, Ive learned a large part of poor mileage comes from the vent tubes on the carb, and for that reason the smart carb usually has big improvements in this regard... with issues in others.

And the pilot and needle setting along with float height also really effect mileage. Get it right and big gains can be had.

I posted a mph chart for sunpsd on ktmtalk... if he can find a way to drag it over here he can. getting anywhere close to a current mx 350f is a challenge now days for spread of power. but in the right hands he makes enough power to be dangerous against most 450s too
ehr400
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12/13/2016 12:16pm
ehr400 wrote:
That is good to see, I love Dereks work, he did my YZ porting and it straight rips. His work and pricing and service is awesome...
That is good to see, I love Dereks work, he did my YZ porting and it straight rips. His work and pricing and service is awesome. Plus he will chat with you on the phone on tech questions or shooting the shit. My buddy and I have both had our motors done by him and I dont plan on ever having someone else ever do motor work other then Derek.
RockyRider wrote:
Odd question, but did you notice worse mileage/using more gas after he did the work? Im playing with the idea of him doing my YZ cylinder...
Odd question, but did you notice worse mileage/using more gas after he did the work? Im playing with the idea of him doing my YZ cylinder as well, but cant afford to lose any more mileage out of a tank. It's bad enough as it is..
I use mine for moto so I couldn't tell you mileage. I was looking for performance and for sure got it. Very happy.
rostocker
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12/13/2016 1:09pm
As a side note, this isnt one of our builds, just a test and tune of something sun put together and wanted some results on... plus...
As a side note, this isnt one of our builds, just a test and tune of something sun put together and wanted some results on... plus a tune if I could find any gains.

On most carb bikes, Ive learned a large part of poor mileage comes from the vent tubes on the carb, and for that reason the smart carb usually has big improvements in this regard... with issues in others.

And the pilot and needle setting along with float height also really effect mileage. Get it right and big gains can be had.

I posted a mph chart for sunpsd on ktmtalk... if he can find a way to drag it over here he can. getting anywhere close to a current mx 350f is a challenge now days for spread of power. but in the right hands he makes enough power to be dangerous against most 450s too
What do you mean with "smart carb"?
slipdog
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Nor Cal, CA US
12/13/2016 1:45pm
As a side note, this isnt one of our builds, just a test and tune of something sun put together and wanted some results on... plus...
As a side note, this isnt one of our builds, just a test and tune of something sun put together and wanted some results on... plus a tune if I could find any gains.

On most carb bikes, Ive learned a large part of poor mileage comes from the vent tubes on the carb, and for that reason the smart carb usually has big improvements in this regard... with issues in others.

And the pilot and needle setting along with float height also really effect mileage. Get it right and big gains can be had.

I posted a mph chart for sunpsd on ktmtalk... if he can find a way to drag it over here he can. getting anywhere close to a current mx 350f is a challenge now days for spread of power. but in the right hands he makes enough power to be dangerous against most 450s too
rostocker wrote:
What do you mean with "smart carb"?
Suns_PSD
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12/14/2016 8:56am
RockyRider wrote:
Odd question, but did you notice worse mileage/using more gas after he did the work? Im playing with the idea of him doing my YZ cylinder...
Odd question, but did you notice worse mileage/using more gas after he did the work? Im playing with the idea of him doing my YZ cylinder as well, but cant afford to lose any more mileage out of a tank. It's bad enough as it is..
Well a couple of notes:

- I was rained out last weekend so still have not ridden the bike since picking it up from Derek. But I'll be at the track tonight. First time on a dirt bike in darn near a year so I don't expect much out of the rider!

- I don't really watch mpg because I ride tracks, but just based on how much fuel I need to add after a 20 minute track session, the Lectron and Smartcarb both use WAY less fuel than a typical carb ime.

- A dialed in bike isn't going to get less mpg, all else being equal. That power is a sign of efficiency.

- Although I have never cared about mpg in the past, I have been invited to do a motorcycle tour in the CO mountains next summer so all of the sudden, it really matters as I'd prefer to take my own bike! There might be an EXC fuel tank in my near future! The fact that the bike is back on pump gas is huge as well when considering a motorcycle tour.
rostocker
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N/A VA
12/14/2016 11:54am
As a side note, this isnt one of our builds, just a test and tune of something sun put together and wanted some results on... plus...
As a side note, this isnt one of our builds, just a test and tune of something sun put together and wanted some results on... plus a tune if I could find any gains.

On most carb bikes, Ive learned a large part of poor mileage comes from the vent tubes on the carb, and for that reason the smart carb usually has big improvements in this regard... with issues in others.

And the pilot and needle setting along with float height also really effect mileage. Get it right and big gains can be had.

I posted a mph chart for sunpsd on ktmtalk... if he can find a way to drag it over here he can. getting anywhere close to a current mx 350f is a challenge now days for spread of power. but in the right hands he makes enough power to be dangerous against most 450s too
rostocker wrote:
What do you mean with "smart carb"?
slipdog wrote:
Thanx! Cool
Suns_PSD
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Austin, TX US
12/16/2016 11:47am
I rode the bike a couple of days ago. Track was tilled deep, real power sucking.

I also had dropped to 13/ 47 gearing in an attempt to spread the powerband out, a gear set up that previously I could never get to work well for me as it just wouldn't pull well enough on the shifts unless I got it all just right.

Lastly I was burning through the 50/ 50 race fuel mix I had just mixed up for Derek to test with. Remember he ended up tuning on pump gas and the bike made more power everywhere on the pump fuel. But I wasn't going to throw it out! I didn't even change the jetting for the race fuel just cause I don't want to get off track again. But it was a bit rich.

Bike ran killer. Smooth strong tq everywhere with good top end too. The gearing is a really nice fit for this powerband. The bike was fast but easy to ride.

I'm pleased! I'm eager to ride it on pump gas actually! More power.

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