JGR and RCH manufacturers

kiwifan
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Edited Date/Time 4/24/2016 3:08pm
I see in a few threads people saying RCH going Yamaha and JGR going Kawasaki or KTM...it is said like its fact....I am assuming its all guess and no one has facts to know for sure?

I would think Suzuki would be keen on RCH staying with them, I dont think Yamaha particulary care if they lose JGR.

Thoughts?
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UpTiTe
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4/17/2016 7:13pm
RCH is going no where. JGR is in serious talks with other brands, FACT.


My hunch is KTM, that is not fact, its a hunch based on what I heard and the situation anther team is in.
MxKing809
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4/17/2016 7:16pm
UpTiTe wrote:
RCH is going no where. JGR is in serious talks with other brands, FACT. My hunch is KTM, that is not fact, its a hunch based...
RCH is going no where. JGR is in serious talks with other brands, FACT.


My hunch is KTM, that is not fact, its a hunch based on what I heard and the situation anther team is in.
Could you see JGR taking BTO"s satellite spot and BTO going blue?
UpTiTe
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4/17/2016 7:17pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:18pm
UpTiTe wrote:
RCH is going no where. JGR is in serious talks with other brands, FACT. My hunch is KTM, that is not fact, its a hunch based...
RCH is going no where. JGR is in serious talks with other brands, FACT.


My hunch is KTM, that is not fact, its a hunch based on what I heard and the situation anther team is in.
MxKing809 wrote:
Could you see JGR taking BTO"s satellite spot and BTO going blue?
BTO isnt going blue
Money
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4/17/2016 7:36pm
Where's bto going?

The Shop

ML512
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4/17/2016 7:42pm
BTO pays for their engines and suspension as a part of the Factory Services program... It's not a big deal if another team comes onboard...

I would be very surprised to see JGR go there because of how KTM goes about that program... JGR wouldn't be doing their own stuff if they got involved with KTM.
TeamGreen
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4/17/2016 7:47pm
ML512 wrote:
BTO pays for their engines and suspension as a part of the Factory Services program... It's not a big deal if another team comes onboard... I...
BTO pays for their engines and suspension as a part of the Factory Services program... It's not a big deal if another team comes onboard...

I would be very surprised to see JGR go there because of how KTM goes about that program... JGR wouldn't be doing their own stuff if they got involved with KTM.
KTM wants the Teams to use KTM's program...

That's not how Coy does things.

kiwifan
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4/17/2016 8:06pm
ML512 wrote:
BTO pays for their engines and suspension as a part of the Factory Services program... It's not a big deal if another team comes onboard... I...
BTO pays for their engines and suspension as a part of the Factory Services program... It's not a big deal if another team comes onboard...

I would be very surprised to see JGR go there because of how KTM goes about that program... JGR wouldn't be doing their own stuff if they got involved with KTM.
TeamGreen wrote:
KTM wants the Teams to use KTM's program...

That's not how Coy does things.

True, so best bet (IF they are wanting to/serious about change) is Kawasaki...certainly cant see them going Suzuki or Honda
4/17/2016 8:46pm
kiwifan wrote:
True, so best bet (IF they are wanting to/serious about change) is Kawasaki...certainly cant see them going Suzuki or Honda
I'll play devil's advocate...

What's the incentive to go Kawi? Free bikes? Some money? Doesnt Monster already pay most of Kawi's bill. And how is PC gonna feel that another team is getting a 450 budget when Mitch has been wanting one for many years.

Yamaha, culturally, is a perfect fit for JGR.

I think we can rule out Honda considering what theyre paying Roczen. Suzuki is always pretending to be broke. As said earlier KTM & Coy wont mix. Im not sold on Kawi but I guess there isnt really any other options.
bd
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4/17/2016 8:56pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 8:58pm
JGR will not go to Honda based on auto sponsorship. I could see JGR go to KTM or Kawasaki and BTO go to Honda. I am assuming Honda wants a satellite 450 Honda Team. A few years ago, Honda dominated the mains with bike market share. Now KTM dominates.

Yamaha could do a BTO deal.

Barcia on a KTM? Could be a great mix.
bd
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4/17/2016 8:57pm
kiwifan wrote:
True, so best bet (IF they are wanting to/serious about change) is Kawasaki...certainly cant see them going Suzuki or Honda
I'll play devil's advocate... What's the incentive to go Kawi? Free bikes? Some money? Doesnt Monster already pay most of Kawi's bill. And how is PC...
I'll play devil's advocate...

What's the incentive to go Kawi? Free bikes? Some money? Doesnt Monster already pay most of Kawi's bill. And how is PC gonna feel that another team is getting a 450 budget when Mitch has been wanting one for many years.

Yamaha, culturally, is a perfect fit for JGR.

I think we can rule out Honda considering what theyre paying Roczen. Suzuki is always pretending to be broke. As said earlier KTM & Coy wont mix. Im not sold on Kawi but I guess there isnt really any other options.
Zook already has factory effort and RCH. Its in a great place. Could be Kawasaki
mxjon454
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4/17/2016 9:12pm
ML512 wrote:
BTO pays for their engines and suspension as a part of the Factory Services program... It's not a big deal if another team comes onboard... I...
BTO pays for their engines and suspension as a part of the Factory Services program... It's not a big deal if another team comes onboard...

I would be very surprised to see JGR go there because of how KTM goes about that program... JGR wouldn't be doing their own stuff if they got involved with KTM.
TeamGreen wrote:
KTM wants the Teams to use KTM's program...

That's not how Coy does things.

What about Husky? Im pretty sure they use the factory service program but do they have to? Maybe husky would want a program similar to the bto ktm deal and jgr go that route minus the factory service program.
4/17/2016 9:20pm
bd wrote:
JGR will not go to Honda based on auto sponsorship. I could see JGR go to KTM or Kawasaki and BTO go to Honda. I am...
JGR will not go to Honda based on auto sponsorship. I could see JGR go to KTM or Kawasaki and BTO go to Honda. I am assuming Honda wants a satellite 450 Honda Team. A few years ago, Honda dominated the mains with bike market share. Now KTM dominates.

Yamaha could do a BTO deal.

Barcia on a KTM? Could be a great mix.
Someone said in another thread BTO isnt going anywhere.

JGR is between Kawi & KTM is what everyone is saying. There's solid arguments against both.

JGR came close to going Suzuki in the past. But as you said, the Toyota sponsorship would hurt that now. I wasnt even thinking about that angle.

I hope they go Husky and that way KTM, in their own mind can somehow justify letting Coy run things his way.
51xc
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4/17/2016 9:38pm
wasn't it just announced a view months ago that coy will be more involved in the nascar team? maybe he sees a ktm's program as a positive now as he will have to split his time between nascar and jgrmx.
Sully
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4/17/2016 10:36pm
How does Monster fit in if JGR goes KTM or Husky?
4/17/2016 10:50pm
Sully wrote:
How does Monster fit in if JGR goes KTM or Husky?
Hopefully JGR drops them Silly

I only say that because a "Toyota JGR Husky" graphics kit would be awesome and the first ever race replica graphics kit I'd ever put on my bike.

I will NEVER run a energy drink logo on anything I own. Clothing, graphics kit, or otherwise.
Sully
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4/18/2016 12:03am Edited Date/Time 4/18/2016 12:20am
Sully wrote:
How does Monster fit in if JGR goes KTM or Husky?
Hopefully JGR drops them :silly: I only say that because a "Toyota JGR Husky" graphics kit would be awesome and the first ever race replica graphics...
Hopefully JGR drops them Silly

I only say that because a "Toyota JGR Husky" graphics kit would be awesome and the first ever race replica graphics kit I'd ever put on my bike.

I will NEVER run a energy drink logo on anything I own. Clothing, graphics kit, or otherwise.
I'm not a big fan of the energy drink craze, either, but that's a pretty good chunk of change for JGR to be leaving on the table.
APLMAN99
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4/18/2016 12:32am
ML512 wrote:
BTO pays for their engines and suspension as a part of the Factory Services program... It's not a big deal if another team comes onboard... I...
BTO pays for their engines and suspension as a part of the Factory Services program... It's not a big deal if another team comes onboard...

I would be very surprised to see JGR go there because of how KTM goes about that program... JGR wouldn't be doing their own stuff if they got involved with KTM.
TeamGreen wrote:
KTM wants the Teams to use KTM's program...

That's not how Coy does things.

That's probably too bad, KTM has had a whole lot more success than Coy has.....
Crush
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4/18/2016 3:00am
APLMAN99 wrote:
That's probably too bad, KTM has had a whole lot more success than Coy has.....
Not arguing that, but you also can't say that's really because of the people behind the team or their input to the bike.

It actually boggles my mind that JGR is still in it, they've done it pretty rough for a start up... Tons of bad luck injury wise, a bike with a hoodoo rep, a mfg that hasn't always been that nice apparently.
IWreckALot
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4/18/2016 5:00am
APLMAN99 wrote:
That's probably too bad, KTM has had a whole lot more success than Coy has.....
Crush wrote:
Not arguing that, but you also can't say that's really because of the people behind the team or their input to the bike. It actually boggles...
Not arguing that, but you also can't say that's really because of the people behind the team or their input to the bike.

It actually boggles my mind that JGR is still in it, they've done it pretty rough for a start up... Tons of bad luck injury wise, a bike with a hoodoo rep, a mfg that hasn't always been that nice apparently.
They got in when the yamaha was a turd, and the JS7 fiasco seems to have left a smell on the team that won't wash off. Like you said, they've had a LOT of bad luck. It seems like all of the true title threats seem to avoid JGR and Yamaha really. Although, the only true title threats are few: Dungey, Roczen, and a healthy Tomac and a few others. Roczen doesn't seem to have given any consideration to yamaha or JGR and neither did Tomac.

I think satellite teams also have the problem of the parent company getting the say in a lot of deals. I remember Reed trying to get a top rider on his TwoTwo team, and Factory Kawi took that rider. Can't remember who it was. Seems like a lot of satellite teams lose a top rider to their factory team. Not sure why that is.
Crush
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4/18/2016 5:19am Edited Date/Time 4/18/2016 5:21am
Honda reneged on their deal to give Reedy a 2nd factory bike with Wilson... which was pretty fucked. Who knows why, maybe because they had/wanted Eli?

And JGR definitely had Deano in serious talks before he went JWR... and one other big guy after JS... maybe Eli? The shitty thing for them is that bike might be different, but to label it bad because JS was crashing on it, well, he crashed a shit load on a KX125 and an RMZ450...
kiwifan
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4/18/2016 12:38pm
Crush wrote:
Honda reneged on their deal to give Reedy a 2nd factory bike with Wilson... which was pretty fucked. Who knows why, maybe because they had/wanted Eli...
Honda reneged on their deal to give Reedy a 2nd factory bike with Wilson... which was pretty fucked. Who knows why, maybe because they had/wanted Eli?

And JGR definitely had Deano in serious talks before he went JWR... and one other big guy after JS... maybe Eli? The shitty thing for them is that bike might be different, but to label it bad because JS was crashing on it, well, he crashed a shit load on a KX125 and an RMZ450...
Wasnt the reason that Honda was too stretched to provide a 5th? i.e. it had 2 factory 450's, 1 Geico 450 and one for Reed?
Brent
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4/18/2016 3:01pm
...so JGR starts this rumor that they are shopping for a new manufacturer, when the logistics of changing over an engine and chassis program to whomever else is kind of a huge deal?

I mean, are they going to throw away years of their own R and D on the Yamahas and start from scratch on a Suz/Kaw/Hon/KTM platform? How many years would that take?

Seems to me like an age old trick to get Yamaha's JGR contract money increased to me...
MxKing809
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4/18/2016 3:28pm
Brent wrote:
...so JGR starts this rumor that they are shopping for a new manufacturer, when the logistics of changing over an engine and chassis program to whomever...
...so JGR starts this rumor that they are shopping for a new manufacturer, when the logistics of changing over an engine and chassis program to whomever else is kind of a huge deal?

I mean, are they going to throw away years of their own R and D on the Yamahas and start from scratch on a Suz/Kaw/Hon/KTM platform? How many years would that take?

Seems to me like an age old trick to get Yamaha's JGR contract money increased to me...
Or maybe after so many years of privately funded R&D on the previously* worst platform they're over it?

Can you imagine polishing the turd that was the 2012 YZF450 on your own dime, probably having large input into the design of the 2014, 15, and 16 chassis improvements only to have the Factory swoop in and step on your toes (stealing Webb)? AND THEN hoard info and tricks like Reeds swing arm mod (they used pit-bit photos to reverse engineer their own if I'm not mistaken), they wouldn't allow Phil to ride the Yamaha track, etc......

They may be on Yamaha's..... but they're not a Yamaha team IMO.
4/18/2016 3:29pm
Brent wrote:
...so JGR starts this rumor that they are shopping for a new manufacturer, when the logistics of changing over an engine and chassis program to whomever...
...so JGR starts this rumor that they are shopping for a new manufacturer, when the logistics of changing over an engine and chassis program to whomever else is kind of a huge deal?

I mean, are they going to throw away years of their own R and D on the Yamahas and start from scratch on a Suz/Kaw/Hon/KTM platform? How many years would that take?

Seems to me like an age old trick to get Yamaha's JGR contract money increased to me...
Smart.

That's why Im not ruling out a return to blue for JGR. There are significant hurdles with the other two likely options (KTM & Kawi) that make "staying put" seem like the pragmatic thing to do.
4/18/2016 3:30pm
Brent wrote:
...so JGR starts this rumor that they are shopping for a new manufacturer, when the logistics of changing over an engine and chassis program to whomever...
...so JGR starts this rumor that they are shopping for a new manufacturer, when the logistics of changing over an engine and chassis program to whomever else is kind of a huge deal?

I mean, are they going to throw away years of their own R and D on the Yamahas and start from scratch on a Suz/Kaw/Hon/KTM platform? How many years would that take?

Seems to me like an age old trick to get Yamaha's JGR contract money increased to me...
MxKing809 wrote:
Or maybe after so many years of privately funded R&D on the previously* worst platform they're over it? Can you imagine polishing the turd that was...
Or maybe after so many years of privately funded R&D on the previously* worst platform they're over it?

Can you imagine polishing the turd that was the 2012 YZF450 on your own dime, probably having large input into the design of the 2014, 15, and 16 chassis improvements only to have the Factory swoop in and step on your toes (stealing Webb)? AND THEN hoard info and tricks like Reeds swing arm mod (they used pit-bit photos to reverse engineer their own if I'm not mistaken), they wouldn't allow Phil to ride the Yamaha track, etc......

They may be on Yamaha's..... but they're not a Yamaha team IMO.
Really good points.
4/18/2016 3:48pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
That's probably too bad, KTM has had a whole lot more success than Coy has.....
Crush wrote:
Not arguing that, but you also can't say that's really because of the people behind the team or their input to the bike. It actually boggles...
Not arguing that, but you also can't say that's really because of the people behind the team or their input to the bike.

It actually boggles my mind that JGR is still in it, they've done it pretty rough for a start up... Tons of bad luck injury wise, a bike with a hoodoo rep, a mfg that hasn't always been that nice apparently.
IWreckALot wrote:
They got in when the yamaha was a turd, and the JS7 fiasco seems to have left a smell on the team that won't wash off...
They got in when the yamaha was a turd, and the JS7 fiasco seems to have left a smell on the team that won't wash off. Like you said, they've had a LOT of bad luck. It seems like all of the true title threats seem to avoid JGR and Yamaha really. Although, the only true title threats are few: Dungey, Roczen, and a healthy Tomac and a few others. Roczen doesn't seem to have given any consideration to yamaha or JGR and neither did Tomac.

I think satellite teams also have the problem of the parent company getting the say in a lot of deals. I remember Reed trying to get a top rider on his TwoTwo team, and Factory Kawi took that rider. Can't remember who it was. Seems like a lot of satellite teams lose a top rider to their factory team. Not sure why that is.
Good points by both you and Crush.

For a moment there a couple years back there were a TON of satellite teams getting access to factory parts (TwoTwo, McBrooks, Jeff Ward Racing, Valli) that just evaporated as fast as they came into the sport.

I think a "satellite" team has to know their place and be ok with it and in that situation, things will work for a long time. Look at Gresini & Tech3 in MotoGP as great examples. Or Factory Connection & TLD in this sport. The very purpose of a satellite team is for them to be a holding spot for talent being groomed for the factory squad. That's why I think these satellites all belong in the 250 class and the factory's should just increase their roster size to 3-4 riders per team.

Like MXking809 said, JGR aint really a Yamaha "team". They cant have it both ways. They want funding from a OEM but they want to operate w/o interference. They can just go back to being a REALLY well run private team. Any of the OEM's will give them FREE bikes with no strings attached if that's all they are asking for.

It'd be nice if the satellites could compete for championships. That's part of what made the early 2000's of MotoGP so damn fun to watch.

The JGR / Yamaha marriage made sense when Yamaha was without a factory team just like the Yosh & RCH Suzuki teams make sense. But if Suzuki ever comes back full fledged, RCH's days of getting factory bits & budget are over also. Just the way it is right?
Brent
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4/18/2016 4:42pm
Smart. That's why Im not ruling out a return to blue for JGR. There are significant hurdles with the other two likely options (KTM & Kawi)...
Smart.

That's why Im not ruling out a return to blue for JGR. There are significant hurdles with the other two likely options (KTM & Kawi) that make "staying put" seem like the pragmatic thing to do.
KTM has the X Bow sports car now, and Autoweek said they may go further into the car market soon.

JGR's sponsor Toyota may not be down with that...Tongue
4/18/2016 5:16pm
Nobody has mentioned that Yamaha seems to have stolen JGR's "girl". Losing Webb might just be the last straw in a strained relationship, all other factors be damned.
MxKing809
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4/18/2016 5:27pm
Nobody has mentioned that Yamaha seems to have stolen JGR's "girl". Losing Webb might just be the last straw in a strained relationship, all other factors...
Nobody has mentioned that Yamaha seems to have stolen JGR's "girl". Losing Webb might just be the last straw in a strained relationship, all other factors be damned.
Literally 5 posts above yours......

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