It's 2016... Why don't we have Asterisk Medical crew data yet?

The Rock
Posts
8763
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI US
2/4/2016 12:54am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2016 12:56am
Ifbwe have access to it potentially/probably so will forces that don't have our sport's best interest at heart.

BTW it is a fair question and one that I asked until a prominent industry person called me to share what I just related.
DC
Posts
3890
Joined
5/1/2009
Location
Morgantown, WV US
2/4/2016 5:07am
Maybe there is also the doctor/patient privacy issues and the fact that the doctors would be in violation of HIPAA rules?

DC
2/4/2016 5:24am
DC wrote:
Maybe there is also the doctor/patient privacy issues and the fact that the doctors would be in violation of HIPAA rules?

DC
Stop making sense.

The Shop

KTMShane699
Posts
1307
Joined
12/6/2013
Location
Colchester, CT US
2/4/2016 5:25am
DC wrote:
Maybe there is also the doctor/patient privacy issues and the fact that the doctors would be in violation of HIPAA rules?

DC
With respect DC, the HIPAA laws only apply to identifiable information. If I treat you, I can't tell someone I was treating DC. I can talk in general terms with regard as long as you can't be identified by it. By this I mean saying "a rider of a motorcycle involved in a crash complaining of a headache." I haven't identified who the rider is or provided any means to identify who it was as there's nothing specific.

To collect data is not a violation and providing statistics isn't either, especially over a period of time since it's impossible to narrow down who had what by reading them. It does allow for data collection to reveal patterns.

That being said, I'm sure they have their reasons for not making information public. I'm also confident that it's most likely being shared with people who are involved in product development. The level of detail to those statistics is unknown.

swtwtwtw
Posts
1287
Joined
4/16/2008
Location
Apple Valley, CA US
2/4/2016 5:29am
no HIPPA on on data. i would like to see the answer to the OP's question. types of helmet worn, re concussions, types of injuries sustained, ect. Neck injuries with and without neck braces. Femur injuries with and without knee braces, ect.
bvm111
Posts
9323
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV US
2/4/2016 5:54am
DC wrote:
Maybe there is also the doctor/patient privacy issues and the fact that the doctors would be in violation of HIPAA rules?

DC
With respect DC, the HIPAA laws only apply to identifiable information. If I treat you, I can't tell someone I was treating DC. I can talk...
With respect DC, the HIPAA laws only apply to identifiable information. If I treat you, I can't tell someone I was treating DC. I can talk in general terms with regard as long as you can't be identified by it. By this I mean saying "a rider of a motorcycle involved in a crash complaining of a headache." I haven't identified who the rider is or provided any means to identify who it was as there's nothing specific.

To collect data is not a violation and providing statistics isn't either, especially over a period of time since it's impossible to narrow down who had what by reading them. It does allow for data collection to reveal patterns.

That being said, I'm sure they have their reasons for not making information public. I'm also confident that it's most likely being shared with people who are involved in product development. The level of detail to those statistics is unknown.

I concur with Shane, as a company commander I have access to all my soldiers medical data and I am HIPPA certified... Releasing statistical data is not a violation of HIPPA only PII and specific treatments or conditions of a person without their consent!
OR Racer46
Posts
1334
Joined
11/24/2014
Location
Eagle Point, OR US
Fantasy
876th
2/4/2016 6:15am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2016 6:23am
I would say a good 80 percent of the time it would not matter as the gear that these guys wear is not the same as you can buy . This is all custom fit gear . It's just like the bike , made to look like stuff we can buy . Also I have never run a call and thought to document Ie : Responded to local track upon arrival found unresponsive patient . Patient had. Red bull painted custom fit Bell Moto flex 9 helmet. Limited Ed. Seven gear Yellow in color. Ect ect. It would be more on the lines of patient wearing full PPE . Now. I am sure each gear company has someone collecting data.
DC
Posts
3890
Joined
5/1/2009
Location
Morgantown, WV US
2/4/2016 6:25am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2016 6:26am
I am not a doctor, nor do I work in the medical field, so I apologize for only knowing how HIPAA works from a layman's point of view.

If you're collecting data to determine what kind of gear you should wear, shouldn't you also collect the speed and trajectory of the crashes and firmness of the ground that was hit, the height and pitch of the jump and/or berm, as well as the previous injuries to the rider? There's a lot more to what goes on in the impact and damage of a crash than just whether or not they had a neck or knee brace on, and it all gets a little complicated when you're searching for specific data to make a determination of your own personal safety equipment choices.

I would suggest getting the best gear you can afford, and wearing it all when you ride your dirt bike.

DC
Jt$
Posts
1122
Joined
11/2/2011
Location
Boise, ID US
2/4/2016 6:26am
OR Racer46 wrote:
I would say a good 80 percent of the time it would not matter as the gear that these guys wear is not the same as...
I would say a good 80 percent of the time it would not matter as the gear that these guys wear is not the same as you can buy . This is all custom fit gear . It's just like the bike , made to look like stuff we can buy . Also I have never run a call and thought to document Ie : Responded to local track upon arrival found unresponsive patient . Patient had. Red bull painted custom fit Bell Moto flex 9 helmet. Limited Ed. Seven gear Yellow in color. Ect ect. It would be more on the lines of patient wearing full PPE . Now. I am sure each gear company has someone collecting data.
Not necessarily true. Most companies are running off-the-shelf helmets other than some sponsor logos and paint added. I know that's 100% true for Fly helmets anyway. I would assume it's true for most others as well.
cslacker
Posts
325
Joined
6/6/2014
Location
Glendale, AZ US
2/4/2016 6:34am
DC wrote:
I am not a doctor, nor do I work in the medical field, so I apologize for only knowing how HIPAA works from a layman's point...
I am not a doctor, nor do I work in the medical field, so I apologize for only knowing how HIPAA works from a layman's point of view.

If you're collecting data to determine what kind of gear you should wear, shouldn't you also collect the speed and trajectory of the crashes and firmness of the ground that was hit, the height and pitch of the jump and/or berm, as well as the previous injuries to the rider? There's a lot more to what goes on in the impact and damage of a crash than just whether or not they had a neck or knee brace on, and it all gets a little complicated when you're searching for specific data to make a determination of your own personal safety equipment choices.

I would suggest getting the best gear you can afford, and wearing it all when you ride your dirt bike.

DC
But isn't that the question here? What is the best gear we can afford? Just the most expensive? There have been quite a few people who argue that SNELL rated helmets are actually less safe for mx types of crashes. That would be most of all the "high end" helmets on the market. The data people are asking for is so that they can try to make the most informed decision possible.

If I get my conspiracy theory wheels spinning I would say that quite a few prominent gear companies might be shown to have poor performance in these real world types of samples and therefore there is pressure to not release this type of information.
DC
Posts
3890
Joined
5/1/2009
Location
Morgantown, WV US
2/4/2016 6:49am
cslacker, there is ZERO pressure from gear companies on the Asterisk Mobile Medics or anyone else. But there is a pandora's box of problems that might surface from making public all of the equipment and protection used in every crash in a professional setting, in my opinion, as it would become an endless resource for litigation, and I doubt the volunteer doctors at Asterisk would want to be subjected to being called for testimony every time someone decides to sue a gear company or motorcycle manufacturer after they crash their motorcycle...

I think there are enough solid product tests out there to make wise choices within your personal budget. Asking professional racers and doctors to list their equipment and injuries every time they visit the medical unit is asking for trouble, in my opinion, and as Rock stated, it would draw unwarranted attention from people (and lawyers) who don't actually have the sport's best interest at heart, and take those statistics out of context.

Just my opinion, but I think what you're asking for here would have some unintended consequences that would not be positive.

DC

cslacker
Posts
325
Joined
6/6/2014
Location
Glendale, AZ US
2/4/2016 7:28am
DC wrote:
cslacker, there is ZERO pressure from gear companies on the Asterisk Mobile Medics or anyone else. But there is a pandora's box of problems that might...
cslacker, there is ZERO pressure from gear companies on the Asterisk Mobile Medics or anyone else. But there is a pandora's box of problems that might surface from making public all of the equipment and protection used in every crash in a professional setting, in my opinion, as it would become an endless resource for litigation, and I doubt the volunteer doctors at Asterisk would want to be subjected to being called for testimony every time someone decides to sue a gear company or motorcycle manufacturer after they crash their motorcycle...

I think there are enough solid product tests out there to make wise choices within your personal budget. Asking professional racers and doctors to list their equipment and injuries every time they visit the medical unit is asking for trouble, in my opinion, and as Rock stated, it would draw unwarranted attention from people (and lawyers) who don't actually have the sport's best interest at heart, and take those statistics out of context.

Just my opinion, but I think what you're asking for here would have some unintended consequences that would not be positive.

DC

I'm actually in agreement with you on the litigation aspect. As mentioned previously, that was my conspiracy theory wheels putting in work, not my actual thought process. I have personally done my research and wear what I feel is the best equipment for the riding/racing I do.

Thanks for your input on this and contributing to this site.
KTMShane699
Posts
1307
Joined
12/6/2013
Location
Colchester, CT US
2/4/2016 8:00am
DC wrote:
I am not a doctor, nor do I work in the medical field, so I apologize for only knowing how HIPAA works from a layman's point...
I am not a doctor, nor do I work in the medical field, so I apologize for only knowing how HIPAA works from a layman's point of view.

If you're collecting data to determine what kind of gear you should wear, shouldn't you also collect the speed and trajectory of the crashes and firmness of the ground that was hit, the height and pitch of the jump and/or berm, as well as the previous injuries to the rider? There's a lot more to what goes on in the impact and damage of a crash than just whether or not they had a neck or knee brace on, and it all gets a little complicated when you're searching for specific data to make a determination of your own personal safety equipment choices.

I would suggest getting the best gear you can afford, and wearing it all when you ride your dirt bike.

DC
You're not alone in not knowing how privacy laws work. Most people aren't. The only reason I brought it up is that there are other forces at play that would limit data collection (or publication) and privacy isn't one of them.

I agree completely on buying the best gear you can afford. I also know price isn't the best indicator of quality.

You're also correct that we would have to collect data on the type of incident as it relates to injury. That in itself is the biggest hurdle in obtaining reliable information from the data. And that's something that can't be overcome easily.

Thanks for contributing DC.
Fearo
Posts
1383
Joined
12/17/2009
Location
BE
2/4/2016 9:08am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2016 9:11am
Also, while the Asterisk Unit is the best thing since sliced bread, don't forget Asterisk is in itself a company that makes knee braces and other protective equipment. This would make any data they publish subjective to begin with. If anyone was to gather this sort of data, it would have to be either the FIM or the AMA.

And I agree, in part, that this should have been done a long time ago, without involving brand names. for example how many neck injuries with neck braces vs without, how many knee injuries with vs without, etc...
APLMAN99
Posts
10100
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
2/4/2016 9:19am
crazy88yg wrote:
Why doesn't the public have data from asterisk medical? I'm sure they log every bit of information from type of helmet worn, injury sustained, ect.Neck injury's...
Why doesn't the public have data from asterisk medical? I'm sure they log every bit of information from type of helmet worn, injury sustained, ect.Neck injury's with and without neck braces. Femur injuries with and without knee braces, ect.

It should be a joint effort to keep ALL riders safe and for them to not release this info to the public is pathetic.

Someone created another new username just for this.........
ML512
Posts
15458
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
45th
2/4/2016 9:27am
crazy88yg wrote:
Why doesn't the public have data from asterisk medical? I'm sure they log every bit of information from type of helmet worn, injury sustained, ect.Neck injury's...
Why doesn't the public have data from asterisk medical? I'm sure they log every bit of information from type of helmet worn, injury sustained, ect.Neck injury's with and without neck braces. Femur injuries with and without knee braces, ect.

It should be a joint effort to keep ALL riders safe and for them to not release this info to the public is pathetic.

APLMAN99 wrote:
Someone created another new username just for this.........
http://www.vitalmx.com/community/Crazy88,47747/all

It's not locked...

Hey crazy, why the second account?
FreshTopEnd
Posts
12476
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA US
Fantasy
4231st
2/4/2016 10:33am
Putting aside why it got asked, I'm not sure the Asterisk Rig people are the ones to collate and produce the sort of data that anyone could make valid conclusions about; they're caring for the riders and the race weekend stuff is not the full time job of the folks in the best position to do it as far as I know. I'm not sure how practical it is either given that pro SX, US Outdoors and MXGP are all variations not entirely alike, and I'd think you'd need a ton of data and some pretty sophisticated analysis to tease out those variables before making conclusions with some confidence that any patterns one thinks he sees, or wants to see, could be confidently labeled a signal and not just noise.

General comment that isn't an opinion on what anyone should do in this situation: I also don't think one avoids litigation by not having information; all that does is create a vacuum that allow a plaintiff's lawyer to inflate the story with whatever he or she wants. It's not a lot different from them trying to twist a finding that has been made, except they can add on for good measure that someone should have been looking into it.

It's a little like the waiver/releases issue; you're never going to get immunity that gives you a free pass from being sued, but you can bolster your defense.
GuyB
Posts
35699
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
Fantasy
988th
2/4/2016 10:38am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2016 10:40am
ML512 wrote:
http://www.vitalmx.com/community/Crazy88,47747/all

It's not locked...

Hey crazy, why the second account?
He wanted to give me something to do.

That said, I'm not sure I get where he's coming from.

"Why don't we have Asterisk Medical crew data yet?"

I don't know. Was it promised to you?

Pathetic is creating a new account and going full blast from post number one.
ML512
Posts
15458
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
45th
2/4/2016 10:39am
GuyB wrote:
He wanted to give me something to do. That said, I'm not sure I get where he's coming from. "Why don't we have Asterisk Medical crew...
He wanted to give me something to do.

That said, I'm not sure I get where he's coming from.

"Why don't we have Asterisk Medical crew data yet?"

I don't know. Was it promised to you?

Pathetic is creating a new account and going full blast from post number one.
LaughingLaughing
2/4/2016 10:57am
DC wrote:
Maybe there is also the doctor/patient privacy issues and the fact that the doctors would be in violation of HIPAA rules?

DC
With respect DC, the HIPAA laws only apply to identifiable information. If I treat you, I can't tell someone I was treating DC. I can talk...
With respect DC, the HIPAA laws only apply to identifiable information. If I treat you, I can't tell someone I was treating DC. I can talk in general terms with regard as long as you can't be identified by it. By this I mean saying "a rider of a motorcycle involved in a crash complaining of a headache." I haven't identified who the rider is or provided any means to identify who it was as there's nothing specific.

To collect data is not a violation and providing statistics isn't either, especially over a period of time since it's impossible to narrow down who had what by reading them. It does allow for data collection to reveal patterns.

That being said, I'm sure they have their reasons for not making information public. I'm also confident that it's most likely being shared with people who are involved in product development. The level of detail to those statistics is unknown.

Not always true. You can get real close to knowing who was tested. Say every guy tht crashed at a sanctioned race in that truck ? a lawyer could have a hay day with that because it's so narrow.

I've taken care of people that have had such break through surgery that I can't talk about it because just he small amount of procedures that have been down will narrow down the receipient of the procedure.
early
Posts
8264
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
Fantasy
2212th
2/4/2016 11:10am
When it comes to safety equipment in motorcycle riding, it seems to me that all data obtained outside a lab is anecdotal because of the many variations in circstances compared to say being strapped into the same seat in the same seatbelt in the same position of a car. There is literally no way to recreate a motorcycle crash.
The Rock
Posts
8763
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI US
2/4/2016 11:21am
The reality is everyone knows racing is dangerous and that a jersey is sufficient upper body so there no need to collect any data.

Seriously why even discuss data at this point? We can't even make simple changes to the required safety equipment list like a chest protector without turning it a debate that makes understanding derivatives seem simple by comparison.

And some wonder why we remain a niche sport.
DC
Posts
3890
Joined
5/1/2009
Location
Morgantown, WV US
2/4/2016 1:12pm
Rock, I am with you -- I wish everyone wore chest protection. I know I do.

DC
lostboy819
Posts
11509
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Somewhere, CO US
Fantasy
1442nd
2/5/2016 2:43pm
You guys can wear as much "safety" equipment as you want and I am sure you feel safer.

Post a reply to: It's 2016... Why don't we have Asterisk Medical crew data yet?

The Latest