Is this how Fox does business?

Anonymous (not verified)
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Edited Date/Time 1/8/2016 3:39pm
So after 15+ years of doing business with Fox (Fox Canada) have decided to close our account because we didn't do enough business with them this past year. Blows my mind. Our off-road demographic is shrinking where we are located (no tracks, trails are almost all gone) but come on we are trying! I will admit it's been a few slow years with them, but this is how they deal with their customers?

Should I be looking at my customer base and sending them emails (yes this is how we were notified) that we do not want them as a customers anymore because they didn't spend enough $$ with us this year? That would be insane to do such a thing. I don't care if a customer spent $5, $50 or $500 with us, we are SO GRATEFUL they came into our shop in the first place.

I had a customer come in today looking for a new set of Fox gear and it was so frustrating and embarrassing to tell them I couldn't get it for him.

Any other dealers experience anything like this??
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RPM68
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1/7/2016 8:47am
I have seen that happen, with other brands, it's not uncommon. What was y'alls average amount of sales with Fox in a year?
mauidex
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1/7/2016 8:53am
it seems like Fox CANADA made that decision............do they sell direct to consumers in Canada??
Steadman
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1/7/2016 8:53am
RPM68 wrote:
I have seen that happen, with other brands, it's not uncommon. What was y'alls average amount of sales with Fox in a year?
Only averaging about $2000 a year now. I know it peanuts, but it drives me insane that they have zero loyalty.

The Shop

jndmx
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1/7/2016 8:55am
First of all sorry to hear about that.

However.....
Fox has to send a certain amount of product and promotional material to every dealer.
If you can't justify the ROI then they will probably stop sending it.
Simple business; you have to use the resources you have where they will do you the most good.

Hell Alias cut the dealer out completely and now sells direct online....new business model.
Spooner
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1/7/2016 8:58am
In the US their minimum is $5k a year in gear alone. Lots of smaller dealers can't do that so they are losing a ton of accounts.
FGR01
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1/7/2016 8:59am
jndmx wrote:
First of all sorry to hear about that. However..... Fox has to send a certain amount of product and promotional material to every dealer. If you...
First of all sorry to hear about that.

However.....
Fox has to send a certain amount of product and promotional material to every dealer.
If you can't justify the ROI then they will probably stop sending it.
Simple business; you have to use the resources you have where they will do you the most good.

Hell Alias cut the dealer out completely and now sells direct online....new business model.
The dealer pays for all that product! They don't send anything for free. The promotional materials basically amounts to a catalog to sit on the parts counter.

Basically what I am saying is there is probably no liability or loss to Fox to allow a low-volume dealer to stay on. Any gear they sell, no matter how little, equals profit/ROI. Am I missing something?
Steadman
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1/7/2016 9:00am
731chopper wrote:
Do you have a rep to talk to?
Our rep is horrible to deal with. Doesn't ride, doesn't live anywhere remotely close but on his annual visit he tells us 'how it is' and what we need to do (order thousands in gear) "It sells itself" he tells me.
Overall he is very demeaning and doesn't understand the difference between small and large business.
Steadman
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1/7/2016 9:02am Edited Date/Time 1/7/2016 9:03am
Spooner wrote:
In the US their minimum is $5k a year in gear alone. Lots of smaller dealers can't do that so they are losing a ton of...
In the US their minimum is $5k a year in gear alone. Lots of smaller dealers can't do that so they are losing a ton of accounts.
It's a shame. I'm certain since 1974 it's been a lot of the smaller dealers that have helped build them to where they are today.
Berm
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1/7/2016 9:05am
Also in many states in the US, they can't just stop supporting you as a dealer (thanks to state dealership laws). So long as you meet the program requirements and those requirements don't change in an unfair way (ie. unfair meaning they don't apply to every dealer), you can still be a dealer. For example, Wisconsin has pretty good dealer protection laws. I don't know about Canada but its something you should look into if you are really that passionate over the loss.
jndmx
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1/7/2016 9:06am Edited Date/Time 1/7/2016 9:11am
FGR01 wrote:
The dealer pays for all that product! They don't send anything for free. The promotional materials basically amounts to a catalog to sit on the parts...
The dealer pays for all that product! They don't send anything for free. The promotional materials basically amounts to a catalog to sit on the parts counter.

Basically what I am saying is there is probably no liability or loss to Fox to allow a low-volume dealer to stay on. Any gear they sell, no matter how little, equals profit/ROI. Am I missing something?
The cost to Fox is not my point but I do not believe that dealers pay for the demo line up front, it is a financed thing.

My thoughts are that sending product which is in a finite supply to someone that is not moving it is not helping your business.
enketchum
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1/7/2016 9:13am
Do you have a Parts Canada account? They carry Fox, don't they?
Steadman
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1/7/2016 9:17am
jndmx wrote:
First of all sorry to hear about that. However..... Fox has to send a certain amount of product and promotional material to every dealer. If you...
First of all sorry to hear about that.

However.....
Fox has to send a certain amount of product and promotional material to every dealer.
If you can't justify the ROI then they will probably stop sending it.
Simple business; you have to use the resources you have where they will do you the most good.

Hell Alias cut the dealer out completely and now sells direct online....new business model.
FGR01 wrote:
The dealer pays for all that product! They don't send anything for free. The promotional materials basically amounts to a catalog to sit on the parts...
The dealer pays for all that product! They don't send anything for free. The promotional materials basically amounts to a catalog to sit on the parts counter.

Basically what I am saying is there is probably no liability or loss to Fox to allow a low-volume dealer to stay on. Any gear they sell, no matter how little, equals profit/ROI. Am I missing something?
We receive two print catalogues per year. one Fox, one Shift. Heck my local bicycle shop hands me a Cannondale catolgue that is bigger than the two combined for free haha.

I'm with you FGR01. What is it costing them to keep us on? So let's say they close off even 10 accounts a year at an average of $2000. Were I come from $20,000 is a lot of money. They must be doing so well they don't need it.
1/7/2016 9:18am
Just be honest to your customers and tell them that Fox stopped supporting you because you didn't sell enough volume for them. Try to get them interested in a gear line that supports you and let them know you understand if they have to go somewhere else.
526
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1/7/2016 9:21am
Fox wants to sell to BTO, MOTOSPORT,MOTORCYCLE Superstore etc.... they could care less about the mom and pop shops. Buy local everyone says but how can I ????
bkent136
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1/7/2016 9:21am
They do the same thing in the USA. If a dealer orders a size XL jersey and 34 pants, and they are out of whatever size, without telling you they'll just send a different size. It's kind of ridiculous. Everyone is sick of carrying fox stuff for this reason.
1/7/2016 9:22am
Also, for what it's worth, you sound like the type of dealer I wish I had around me. I'd bet most of your customers are loyal and will choose you over them. Plus, if you were only pushing a few grand a year it shouldn't hurt you too much either.

Screw 'em. It's for kids in the mall anyway.
Steadman
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1/7/2016 9:24am
Berm wrote:
Also in many states in the US, they can't just stop supporting you as a dealer (thanks to state dealership laws). So long as you meet...
Also in many states in the US, they can't just stop supporting you as a dealer (thanks to state dealership laws). So long as you meet the program requirements and those requirements don't change in an unfair way (ie. unfair meaning they don't apply to every dealer), you can still be a dealer. For example, Wisconsin has pretty good dealer protection laws. I don't know about Canada but its something you should look into if you are really that passionate over the loss.
I am certainly passionate about the loss and I will look into any sort of protection laws.

The inside guy I talked to at Fox Canada said we can 'become a dealer again' but we have to buy in. It's the principle of the matter that makes me angry. If I had anyone of you as a customer I would never in a million years give you the boot for not spending enough money annually. Could you imagine that???! "I'm sorry John, you only spent $1400 with our dealership this year. It's not enough. You will have to buy from our competition from now on"
SPYGUY
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1/7/2016 9:24am
Manufacturers have to have a minimum sales figure so that they can ensure that they're actually supplying a reseller and not someone just trying to get personal items at wholesale pricing.
Steadman
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1/7/2016 9:25am
enketchum wrote:
Do you have a Parts Canada account? They carry Fox, don't they?
We have a Parts Canada account yes. They are the Thor distributor.
Steadman
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1/7/2016 9:29am
Just be honest to your customers and tell them that Fox stopped supporting you because you didn't sell enough volume for them. Try to get them...
Just be honest to your customers and tell them that Fox stopped supporting you because you didn't sell enough volume for them. Try to get them interested in a gear line that supports you and let them know you understand if they have to go somewhere else.
Absolutely, and I was honest with that customer this morning. I mentioned some other brands but I know he wanted Fox and I'm not the type to push sales on people.
FGR01
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1/7/2016 9:32am
jndmx wrote:
The cost to Fox is not my point but I do not believe that dealers pay for the demo line up front, it is a financed...
The cost to Fox is not my point but I do not believe that dealers pay for the demo line up front, it is a financed thing.

My thoughts are that sending product which is in a finite supply to someone that is not moving it is not helping your business.
We've been a dealer for probably over 50 brands/suppliers in this business for almost 30 years. Never have we had any of them send us any initial batch of promotional product of any substantial amount at their cost or allowed it to be financed. The bill was due when the invoice came at the end of the month. We have always had to pay for all product. The risk is on us, not the supplier, if it doesn't sell.

We are very low-volume for some of the brands we carry and we have never had any of them drop us. Admittedly, we have never been a Fox dealer so I cannot speak specifically about their practices. I don't think it's an ROI thing for them. Sounds more like a marketing/brand image thing.

Steadman, I feel ya on the loyalty thing. Many of these companies will get built up to huge proportions on the backs of small dealers and once they reach the top they might not drop you but they will force you to submit to dealer agreements that essentially force you out. Don't want to point the finger at any action camera companies or anything like that, though !
DonM
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1/7/2016 9:33am
I believe what they require is a "stocking" dealer, If you are not keeping gear in stock and are just ordering when needed they are going to let you go it's as simple as that.
Steadman
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1/7/2016 9:33am
526 wrote:
Fox wants to sell to BTO, MOTOSPORT,MOTORCYCLE Superstore etc.... they could care less about the mom and pop shops. Buy local everyone says but how can...
Fox wants to sell to BTO, MOTOSPORT,MOTORCYCLE Superstore etc.... they could care less about the mom and pop shops. Buy local everyone says but how can I ????
This is what it is coming down to yes and I was always reminded of that when my Fox rep came in. We do "X" amount of $$ with these guys and big $$ with this company, and I was told that if we didn't do more business we would get the boot.
c0ncEpT
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1/7/2016 9:34am
Your going to have to buy from a dealer. Its just business. Why should the dealer down the road that does 50K+ a year with Fox get the same pricing as the guy that sells 2K? The answer is he shouldn't. If you cant meet the requirements to be a dealer you will have to buy through a dealer.

The system is set up to reward retailers that push the product and do large numbers.
mgifracing
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1/7/2016 9:36am
Steadman: I have had up and down relationships with FOX, You may look into doing a spring dating order where you can defer the payments and split them into 3 months. That's what I've had to do at the last dealership I worked at. I just tried to forecast what would sale and buy in to the lowest program. SpyGuy and Spooner pretty much summed it up. what irked me the most is they won't le you combine SHIFT and FOX to make a minimum. Pretty much why I always stayed a THOR and MOOSE racing shop. The shop I'm at now I'm in the same boat trying to get a minimum with PU but that's way easier since they sell consumables.
JSC&B
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1/7/2016 9:39am
In all honesty, loyalty is also looked backed towards your effort. I've been on the rep side of things in the past and 2k doesn't fit the budget, especially if your in the boonies. A rep may make $100 or less on that account when all said and done for the entire year. Either way the external or internal should have given you a warning or even offered some sales tips. Also if you blew them up with special orders or that 2k you mentioned included 1k of employee discount orders, then you would be out no question.

I've seen a lot of retailers sitting on a book of previous bike buyers or customers and never once have they ever picked up the phone to call them about a sale they had. It used to crack me up. Every time you walked in they were just chatting. Chatting doesn't keep the doors open too long.

My suggestion, start asking everyone to like your Instagram and Facebook and start pumping out sales. Every new bike that roles in should be blasted out. Every new line should be blasted out. Order a cool special item in for a customer, blast it out. Re-share riders photos that are wearing gear you have hanging in the store letting everyone know the sizes you have in stock. Are you having a Supercross viewing party? Why not? Become the local retailer that is cool to hang out at. Then beat the online sales with anyone that asks. Who cares, no skin of your back to do that and quite honestly as long as your not putting up a billboard saying you sell fox wear at 30% off all the time you'll be fine. Take care of your previous customers. If the guy walks in and buys a bolt, tell him to purchase your old stock for 25% over your cost, move some product and you won't be back on Vital pissed.
Steadman
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1/7/2016 9:41am
jndmx wrote:
The cost to Fox is not my point but I do not believe that dealers pay for the demo line up front, it is a financed...
The cost to Fox is not my point but I do not believe that dealers pay for the demo line up front, it is a financed thing.

My thoughts are that sending product which is in a finite supply to someone that is not moving it is not helping your business.
FGR01 wrote:
We've been a dealer for probably over 50 brands/suppliers in this business for almost 30 years. Never have we had any of them send us any...
We've been a dealer for probably over 50 brands/suppliers in this business for almost 30 years. Never have we had any of them send us any initial batch of promotional product of any substantial amount at their cost or allowed it to be financed. The bill was due when the invoice came at the end of the month. We have always had to pay for all product. The risk is on us, not the supplier, if it doesn't sell.

We are very low-volume for some of the brands we carry and we have never had any of them drop us. Admittedly, we have never been a Fox dealer so I cannot speak specifically about their practices. I don't think it's an ROI thing for them. Sounds more like a marketing/brand image thing.

Steadman, I feel ya on the loyalty thing. Many of these companies will get built up to huge proportions on the backs of small dealers and once they reach the top they might not drop you but they will force you to submit to dealer agreements that essentially force you out. Don't want to point the finger at any action camera companies or anything like that, though !
Ah man. You nailed it with the action camera companies. GoPro to be exact. we were there with the product in the beginning. Selling, informing, building the company (as many dealers were) then they dropped the Canadian moto distributor and went directly with the big box stores Best Buy, Walmart etc. I couldn't purchase them anymore. Even tried setting up an account direct but like you said the agreement was out of reach.
ACBraap
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1/7/2016 9:41am
SPYGUY wrote:
Manufacturers have to have a minimum sales figure so that they can ensure that they're actually supplying a reseller and not someone just trying to get...
Manufacturers have to have a minimum sales figure so that they can ensure that they're actually supplying a reseller and not someone just trying to get personal items at wholesale pricing.
There are other ways to confirm that though. An actual storefront, liability insurance, business license, etc. These are things other brands have used to confirm that it's not a garage operation purchasing for personal use.
Steadman
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1/7/2016 9:47am
DonM wrote:
I believe what they require is a "stocking" dealer, If you are not keeping gear in stock and are just ordering when needed they are going...
I believe what they require is a "stocking" dealer, If you are not keeping gear in stock and are just ordering when needed they are going to let you go it's as simple as that.
That's the fine line we have been faced with for a few years. Still trying to stay afloat from the recession and we couldn't afford to stock everything from every supplier.

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