Is this Andy Stacy that got indicted?

Markout
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Markout 8/30/2013 11:37pm
8/30/2013 11:37pm
TerryK wrote:
Owen Weichel used to race in Canada I believe and the US as well.
Yes he did. He was from Woodstock Ontario, road raced for Hyd-Mech saws last I saw him. He had real natural talent, and was an animal on the street. Everyone around here into motorcycles knew of him. He had no money back in those days.
Brad460
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Brad460 8/31/2013 6:10am
8/31/2013 6:10am
I think the federal government should give the Ott family and associates a bail out...How is this any different then the subprime mortgage scam which helped collapse our economy?! Loans were being provided to those who clearly were not going to make payments..

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longgone008
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longgone008 8/31/2013 11:06am
8/31/2013 11:06am
This investigation has been going on for a long time looks like the end is near.Almost all will get 7-15 yrs on this.Looks like its ok for banks to defraud the people of the united states but dont try defrauding them
Ramrod
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Ramrod 8/31/2013 11:47am
8/31/2013 11:47am
These people are all fukt. Living large to hard knocks.
neysbo
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neysbo 8/31/2013 1:51pm
8/31/2013 1:51pm
Brad460 wrote:
I think the federal government should give the Ott family and associates a bail out...How is this any different then the subprime mortgage scam which helped...
I think the federal government should give the Ott family and associates a bail out...How is this any different then the subprime mortgage scam which helped collapse our economy?! Loans were being provided to those who clearly were not going to make payments..
A lot more to it than providing loans to people who could not make payments. They were falsifying titles and paperwork and getting three and more loans on the same vehicles. He personally screwed some of my friends so a little time in prison is what he needs.
corsair
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corsair 8/31/2013 2:49pm
8/31/2013 2:49pm
Legal bills alone would be enough to qualify as fucked. Ouch.
project racer 8/31/2013 3:23pm
8/31/2013 3:23pm
corsair wrote:
Legal bills alone would be enough to qualify as fucked. Ouch.
Not to mention the fun awaiting them once they land in the pen.
mx5471
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mx5471 8/31/2013 7:42pm
8/31/2013 7:42pm
The charges are very serious. From what is alleged, they had a big operation going. I understand what they are accused of doing. But with that kind of money involved, and several banks, I would think the whole scheme would need to keep growing for them to continue it without eventually getting caught. They got the money, spending it, investing it, and living good, but what is the exit plan? How would some one doing this expect to enjoy the benefits for the rest of their lives? As I said, to get off clean, and go along your merry way, there had to be an exit plan. If there's a banker or accountant out there that can give some input, i would appreciate it. It seems like there is no way for any one to do this and expect to live happily ever after.
500guy
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500guy 8/31/2013 7:50pm
8/31/2013 7:50pm Edited Date/Time 8/31/2013 7:50pm
mx5471 wrote:
The charges are very serious. From what is alleged, they had a big operation going. I understand what they are accused of doing. But with that...
The charges are very serious. From what is alleged, they had a big operation going. I understand what they are accused of doing. But with that kind of money involved, and several banks, I would think the whole scheme would need to keep growing for them to continue it without eventually getting caught. They got the money, spending it, investing it, and living good, but what is the exit plan? How would some one doing this expect to enjoy the benefits for the rest of their lives? As I said, to get off clean, and go along your merry way, there had to be an exit plan. If there's a banker or accountant out there that can give some input, i would appreciate it. It seems like there is no way for any one to do this and expect to live happily ever after.
I guarantee you there was Bankers involved, The Lenders tried to claim the Insurance and were Denied.
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dboivin 8/31/2013 8:04pm
8/31/2013 8:04pm Edited Date/Time 8/31/2013 8:05pm
mx5471 wrote:
The charges are very serious. From what is alleged, they had a big operation going. I understand what they are accused of doing. But with that...
The charges are very serious. From what is alleged, they had a big operation going. I understand what they are accused of doing. But with that kind of money involved, and several banks, I would think the whole scheme would need to keep growing for them to continue it without eventually getting caught. They got the money, spending it, investing it, and living good, but what is the exit plan? How would some one doing this expect to enjoy the benefits for the rest of their lives? As I said, to get off clean, and go along your merry way, there had to be an exit plan. If there's a banker or accountant out there that can give some input, i would appreciate it. It seems like there is no way for any one to do this and expect to live happily ever after.
500guy wrote:
I guarantee you there was Bankers involved, The Lenders tried to claim the Insurance and were Denied.
yup, usually someone on the inside that allows it to happen or simply turns blind eye. I had a friend from high school pull this very same thing with vehicles. he was buying expensive suburbans in the 90's...and basically kept financing the vehicles a couple times thru falsifying titles or straw buyers (he had a dealer/auction license). He had a friend at the bank that was actually forced to turn him in due to all the defaults.

It caught up with him just like the these guys. There is no exit strat....they think in their mind that they will eventually make all the money back and pay it off....but it snowballs out of control. my buddy did 5 years but it was for 100g, not 10 mil.
MaxPower
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MaxPower 9/1/2013 5:39am
9/1/2013 5:39am
Wasn't one of the Stacey's a Dunlop tire guy that gave free tires to the pros at the Nationals
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motosmith 9/1/2013 7:19am
9/1/2013 7:19am
mx5471 wrote:
The charges are very serious. From what is alleged, they had a big operation going. I understand what they are accused of doing. But with that...
The charges are very serious. From what is alleged, they had a big operation going. I understand what they are accused of doing. But with that kind of money involved, and several banks, I would think the whole scheme would need to keep growing for them to continue it without eventually getting caught. They got the money, spending it, investing it, and living good, but what is the exit plan? How would some one doing this expect to enjoy the benefits for the rest of their lives? As I said, to get off clean, and go along your merry way, there had to be an exit plan. If there's a banker or accountant out there that can give some input, i would appreciate it. It seems like there is no way for any one to do this and expect to live happily ever after.
My wife and I had this exact conversation. Why would you pull a scam when you know you're going to get caught? There is no way to sustain this kind of scam for any length of time. It's completely different than the Bernie Madoff scam. Those investors don't typically come looking for their money for 30 plus years. Banks come looking for their money every month.
dboivin
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dboivin 9/1/2013 7:33am
9/1/2013 7:33am
MaxPower wrote:
Wasn't one of the Stacey's a Dunlop tire guy that gave free tires to the pros at the Nationals
bother frank i think.
GoonSquad250x
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GoonSquad250x 9/1/2013 10:47am
9/1/2013 10:47am
Man that is crazy. Good insite from everyone. These guys were smart but dumb. Figurin out how to make a house of cards built out of free cash takes some connections, experience and thinking. Those were some big numbers that got to. They had Alot of legit buissness's and seems they maybe thought they could make enough to pay on the loans enough to keep the banks and FBI off them. You would think with all those mega dealerships and other investments they could've gotten out before it was to late. I guess they were to used to making big money with the hustle and with alot of dealerships taking hits & closing during the bad economy, it was a matter of time til it all ended.

For shits & giggles, if the economy stayed strong, car, RV, & bike sales stayed strong, could they have maybe kept it going? Paying at these loans or where they just to deep in the hole? Did they start this before the economy went downhill, or started after, and that's why they had to scheme?
ehr400
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ehr400 9/1/2013 11:00am
9/1/2013 11:00am
They started collapsing near me in 2007-8. They lost their Suzuki franchise in 2007 I believe. I remember seeing RV's start popping up at the dealership around then.

Like DBoivin said there had to be some lenders involved in this scam. Someone had to keep the avenues of capitol open for them to have access for the money. Also I would be interested in hearing what happened to their tax people. there had to be some shifty stuff going on.

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GoonSquad250x
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GoonSquad250x 9/1/2013 11:53am
9/1/2013 11:53am
ehr400 wrote:
They started collapsing near me in 2007-8. They lost their Suzuki franchise in 2007 I believe. I remember seeing RV's start popping up at the dealership...
They started collapsing near me in 2007-8. They lost their Suzuki franchise in 2007 I believe. I remember seeing RV's start popping up at the dealership around then.

Like DBoivin said there had to be some lenders involved in this scam. Someone had to keep the avenues of capitol open for them to have access for the money. Also I would be interested in hearing what happened to their tax people. there had to be some shifty stuff going on.
Good point. A CPA firm handling a company as big as that with those kind of figures had to have P&L spreed sheets from their accountant. I'm sure they were doing them quarterly too. Thats alot of eyes on alot of numbers.
TG130
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TG130 9/1/2013 10:02pm
9/1/2013 10:02pm
MaxPower wrote:
Wasn't one of the Stacey's a Dunlop tire guy that gave free tires to the pros at the Nationals
Yeah, Frank Stacy. Was also a pro racer back in the 70's.
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 9/2/2013 2:06am
9/2/2013 2:06am
mx5471 wrote:
The charges are very serious. From what is alleged, they had a big operation going. I understand what they are accused of doing. But with that...
The charges are very serious. From what is alleged, they had a big operation going. I understand what they are accused of doing. But with that kind of money involved, and several banks, I would think the whole scheme would need to keep growing for them to continue it without eventually getting caught. They got the money, spending it, investing it, and living good, but what is the exit plan? How would some one doing this expect to enjoy the benefits for the rest of their lives? As I said, to get off clean, and go along your merry way, there had to be an exit plan. If there's a banker or accountant out there that can give some input, i would appreciate it. It seems like there is no way for any one to do this and expect to live happily ever after.
motosmith wrote:
My wife and I had this exact conversation. Why would you pull a scam when you know you're going to get caught? There is no way...
My wife and I had this exact conversation. Why would you pull a scam when you know you're going to get caught? There is no way to sustain this kind of scam for any length of time. It's completely different than the Bernie Madoff scam. Those investors don't typically come looking for their money for 30 plus years. Banks come looking for their money every month.
Greed has a funny way of influencing judgment.........

Some folks believe that they are just plain smarter than the last guy who got caught. I knew a guy who was a GM at an auto dealership before he was 30 who is now serving time. I'm certain that the reason he turned the corner to the dark side was simply to try to prove he was smart enough to do it.
500guy
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500guy 9/2/2013 9:12am
9/2/2013 9:12am
mx5471 wrote:
The charges are very serious. From what is alleged, they had a big operation going. I understand what they are accused of doing. But with that...
The charges are very serious. From what is alleged, they had a big operation going. I understand what they are accused of doing. But with that kind of money involved, and several banks, I would think the whole scheme would need to keep growing for them to continue it without eventually getting caught. They got the money, spending it, investing it, and living good, but what is the exit plan? How would some one doing this expect to enjoy the benefits for the rest of their lives? As I said, to get off clean, and go along your merry way, there had to be an exit plan. If there's a banker or accountant out there that can give some input, i would appreciate it. It seems like there is no way for any one to do this and expect to live happily ever after.
motosmith wrote:
My wife and I had this exact conversation. Why would you pull a scam when you know you're going to get caught? There is no way...
My wife and I had this exact conversation. Why would you pull a scam when you know you're going to get caught? There is no way to sustain this kind of scam for any length of time. It's completely different than the Bernie Madoff scam. Those investors don't typically come looking for their money for 30 plus years. Banks come looking for their money every month.
APLMAN99 wrote:
Greed has a funny way of influencing judgment......... Some folks believe that they are just plain smarter than the last guy who got caught. I knew...
Greed has a funny way of influencing judgment.........

Some folks believe that they are just plain smarter than the last guy who got caught. I knew a guy who was a GM at an auto dealership before he was 30 who is now serving time. I'm certain that the reason he turned the corner to the dark side was simply to try to prove he was smart enough to do it.
Back in the 80's the local Oldsmobile dealer had a GM that was cashing warranty checks at the local race track.

Someone processing the canceled checks made a comment about it and the supervisor checked it out,

He was caught and all he had to say was the owner who was his friend could afford it.
jsmx97
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jsmx97 9/2/2013 6:30pm
9/2/2013 6:30pm
mxnick wrote:
Ouch. I had heard Rusty and Andy had stepped in some shit, but those are some serious numbers. Believe it or not, you hear about those...
Ouch. I had heard Rusty and Andy had stepped in some shit, but those are some serious numbers. Believe it or not, you hear about those things happening in powersports dealerships. Things like selling bikes and stacking empty crates so they look like they are still "in stock" and so the dealer does not have to pay it off.

But these guys really got some serious numbers of fraud in. I assume that selling those those big rig style fun mover type rigs, which are $200K+, and which add up quickly. The bikes are smaller dollar value, so it takes a shit ton of bikes to add up to a million or two, but only a few motorhomes!

There was a honda dealer in new hampshire that got in a similar situation a while back. Every year there are maybe 4-8 motorcycle dealerships where you hear shenanigans like this....just not $70mm worth!

Thats too bad though, those guys are in some serious trouble.
Do you remember which one in NH??? KMS by chance? I am intrigued by situations like these. It amazes me how long someone can get away with a scam like that. Like it has been said, there absolutely must be bankers on the payroll for this guy as well. Lots of favors were done to keep this thing snowballing.
Big Daddy
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Big Daddy 9/3/2013 6:23am
9/3/2013 6:23am
fullfloater wrote:
Wait a minute, there are crooked people in the moto industry?
Say it isn't so,.......

Oh, if only the truths were known.
TX24
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TX24 9/3/2013 8:36am
9/3/2013 8:36am
Federal crimes, one does all the time. You don't get out early.
Walter
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Walter 9/3/2013 1:10pm
9/3/2013 1:10pm
TX24 wrote:
Federal crimes, one does all the time. You don't get out early.
Actually you do not do 100% of a fed sentence. There is a 15% statutory good time credit. So you do 85%.

You can also get a year off for completing the BOP DAP (drug) program for many crimes.

There is also a 3-6 month early out 1/2 way house program.

The entire scene may change as well with some newer programs that are being considered.
mx5471
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mx5471 9/3/2013 3:54pm
9/3/2013 3:54pm
I'll bet the Feds already know who the kingpins in this operation are, and will put pressure on the rest to see who will talk and tell everything in order to get reduced sentences or reduced charges. Some one always plays the "he made me do it card", and the Feds know it. They are about to find out far more than they know already. I wouldn't be surprised if some end up facing additional charges. If convicted, they're all going to jail. Some for a longer period than others.
Walter
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Walter 9/3/2013 5:52pm
9/3/2013 5:52pm
Before the US Atty's Office went to Indictment, they had a number of folks already in the kit bag to testify. Many of the newly-charged folks will roll (cooperate and testify against others), not due to play the "he made me do it card", but rather to get a Govt recommendation for leniency and for the prosecution to file the motion (called a 5k1.1) that generates grounds to vary substantially from the advisory Sentencing Guidelines.

This will not end will for those who were at the top...
Walter
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Walter 9/3/2013 6:31pm
9/3/2013 6:31pm
BOP and DOJ has some changes under consideration that would combine a number of early out programs into one more global approach. Drug treatment, getting a GED, health issues, etc, may be considered cumulatively to reduce the sentence. The reality is that the fed prisons are over crowded with folks serving some sentences that are too long. The recent pronouncement from DOJ to charge differently so as to not trigger the minimum, mandatory sentences (mainly in drug cases) is in recognition of that.

The Guidelines are no longer mandatory after Booker and Fanfan, but many Districts still adhere to them very closely. While a 5K1.1 is not required to get a variant sentence, in those Districts one is hard pressed to go much below the GL range using only the 3553 factors. Even in those Districts where they are not still slavishly adhered to, the filing of a 5K1.1 makes it much easier to get a defendant a lower sentence or even probation/supervised release.

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