Is the Current SX Night Program a Little Short?

Masonry
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San Diego, CA US
3/27/2010 9:26pm
To anybody on here, yes. For everyone at the race, no.
mcphilly
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Monroe, WA US
3/27/2010 9:32pm
no.....they need to bring back the semis ... also replace the freestyle crap with the KTM jr challenge ...


while there at it they could do away with the timed qualifiers and bring back the motos .


sharkey
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3/27/2010 9:44pm Edited Date/Time 3/27/2010 9:45pm
i always go rain or shine and probably get a little more out of it because we watch afternoon practice also. crazy what they charge for parking &food. last year at seattle the cheapest parking was $20 most were $30 and if you got food for you and your kid and maybe a beer you spent as much as your tickets and didnt even count in shirts, hats etc
mcphilly
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3/27/2010 9:57pm
sharkey wrote:
i always go rain or shine and probably get a little more out of it because we watch afternoon practice also. crazy what they charge for...
i always go rain or shine and probably get a little more out of it because we watch afternoon practice also. crazy what they charge for parking &food. last year at seattle the cheapest parking was $20 most were $30 and if you got food for you and your kid and maybe a beer you spent as much as your tickets and didnt even count in shirts, hats etc
yeah it adds up man I think I paid 40 for parking at Seattle last year and with food for the kids and all the gear that goes along its an easy 500 ......Not like Washougal though I usually end up spending at least a grand there with hotels and crap. Those are my 2 weekends a year that I live for so I could care less what it costs..Smile

The Shop

Fat Fingers
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3/27/2010 10:04pm
Heat races bore me - I would rather see 2 point scoring motos for both classes but it will never happen.

2 x 20 lap races for 450's and 2 x 15 lap races for 250's. That would probably be similar amount of laps as they do now.

For the 2 hour 55 minute programe that you talk about, there are really only 35 minutes that really count. When was the last time a title contender didn't qualify for the main event?



eddie
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3/27/2010 10:09pm
bring back the semis .
Fat Fingers
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3/27/2010 10:23pm
If you want excitement, how about getting rid of the LCQ and taking the top 10 from the 2 heats. It would benefit privateers and make the heat racing more exciting.

There are many sports where you don't get 2nd chances, why should supercross riders have 2 chances? (and if you bring back the semi's 3 chances).
mcphilly
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3/27/2010 10:32pm
If you want excitement, how about getting rid of the LCQ and taking the top 10 from the 2 heats. It would benefit privateers and make...
If you want excitement, how about getting rid of the LCQ and taking the top 10 from the 2 heats. It would benefit privateers and make the heat racing more exciting.

There are many sports where you don't get 2nd chances, why should supercross riders have 2 chances? (and if you bring back the semi's 3 chances).
it is 3 chances but they take less riders so it makes for better racing....

I personally liked the 86 format .....4 heat races with the top 4 riders from each heat advancing. 2 semis with the top 2 advancing and only the winner of the lcq going to the main....


they did the 2 moto format in 85 and i didnt work out very good ... with the lap times as short as they are now they need to have 20 lap mains for the lites and 25 for the 450s
ASH510
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3/27/2010 10:55pm
i will not attend another SX untill the the show is more for my money.
i havent been to a SX since new orleans 2001. the only one i care to go
to is us open but its vegas so it is diffrent.
3/27/2010 11:48pm
mcphilly wrote:
it is 3 chances but they take less riders so it makes for better racing.... I personally liked the 86 format .....4 heat races with the...
it is 3 chances but they take less riders so it makes for better racing....

I personally liked the 86 format .....4 heat races with the top 4 riders from each heat advancing. 2 semis with the top 2 advancing and only the winner of the lcq going to the main....


they did the 2 moto format in 85 and i didnt work out very good ... with the lap times as short as they are now they need to have 20 lap mains for the lites and 25 for the 450s
I like your way of thinking on this mcphilly. More races, more total laps, and most importantly, more racing!

How many of your best SX spectator moments came not from watching the big names in their heat races and main events, but sometimes from just random semis or even afternoon qualifiers where two privateers who were just painfully matched in speed, duked it out, lap after lap, in pursuit of their supercross dreams?

I know there are modern day issues with rider turnouts and track deterioration, which would prevent a return to the exact 1986 format. But for crimany sakes, once you've already gone to all the trouble of bringing in the dirt and building the entire track, what's the harm in using it a little bit more? Heck, even if you had to touch it up a couple of times during the night in between the additional racing, those could be your intermission times where you could sell some more of that horribly over-priced beer and those stadium hot dogs.
The Rock
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3/27/2010 11:59pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 9:43pm
mcphilly wrote:
it is 3 chances but they take less riders so it makes for better racing.... I personally liked the 86 format .....4 heat races with the...
it is 3 chances but they take less riders so it makes for better racing....

I personally liked the 86 format .....4 heat races with the top 4 riders from each heat advancing. 2 semis with the top 2 advancing and only the winner of the lcq going to the main....


they did the 2 moto format in 85 and i didnt work out very good ... with the lap times as short as they are now they need to have 20 lap mains for the lites and 25 for the 450s
neiltkool wrote:
I like your way of thinking on this mcphilly. More races, more total laps, and most importantly, more racing! How many of your best SX spectator...
I like your way of thinking on this mcphilly. More races, more total laps, and most importantly, more racing!

How many of your best SX spectator moments came not from watching the big names in their heat races and main events, but sometimes from just random semis or even afternoon qualifiers where two privateers who were just painfully matched in speed, duked it out, lap after lap, in pursuit of their supercross dreams?

I know there are modern day issues with rider turnouts and track deterioration, which would prevent a return to the exact 1986 format. But for crimany sakes, once you've already gone to all the trouble of bringing in the dirt and building the entire track, what's the harm in using it a little bit more? Heck, even if you had to touch it up a couple of times during the night in between the additional racing, those could be your intermission times where you could sell some more of that horribly over-priced beer and those stadium hot dogs.


I know there are modern day issues with rider turnouts and track deterioration



Great thread.


Without the semis the evening blows by much too quickly but independent of that it certainly wouldn't hurt to go to timed mains. I would like more but would be satisfied if every venue delivered the same amount of racing.


It's not too much to ask for 15 minutes in the 250 class and 20 minutes in the 450 for seventeen races. It's hard for me to see a "track deterioration" reason being given on why we can't go to timed mains. Wonder if timed mains would help the TV folks?
3/28/2010 1:16am
The Rock wrote:
I know there are modern day issues with rider turnouts and track deterioration Great thread. Without the semis the evening blows by much too quickly but...


I know there are modern day issues with rider turnouts and track deterioration



Great thread.


Without the semis the evening blows by much too quickly but independent of that it certainly wouldn't hurt to go to timed mains. I would like more but would be satisfied if every venue delivered the same amount of racing.


It's not too much to ask for 15 minutes in the 250 class and 20 minutes in the 450 for seventeen races. It's hard for me to see a "track deterioration" reason being given on why we can't go to timed mains. Wonder if timed mains would help the TV folks?
Thanks Rock, I appreciate your response.

While I still like the idea of increasing the actual number of races throughout the evening (i.e. bringing back the semis), your suggestion of moving towards a standardized timed main, and perhaps it being helpful for TV, is an interesting one.

Just for fun I looked up the total race times from each of the 250 and 450 mains from this year's supercross season, and it turns out there is a huge variance in their total length. Not surprisingly, Daytona had the longest 450 main event so far this year in terms of total time. What is perhaps surprising though, is that the Daytona race was 32% longer in terms of total time than the shortest 450 main event so far this season, tonight's Jacksonville race.

Race - 250 main - 450 main

Anaheim I - 14:36 - 18:59
Phoenix - 13:55 - 18:09
Anaheim II - 14:54 - 19:47
San Fransisco - 13:28 - 18:12
San Diego - 13:52 - 18:27
Anaheim III - 15:21 - 20:28
Indianapolis - 13:09 - 17:20
Atlanta - 14:23 - 18:38
Daytona - 16:21 - 21:36
Toronto - 15:06 - 19:46
Dallas - 12:42 - 16:35
Jacksonville - 12:25 - 16:19

Average - 14:11 - 18:41
FlaNard
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3/28/2010 1:39am
You are asking if 14 minute main events arent worth the money? Supercross gets less worth the money every year. Save your money and go to a National.
spd721
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3/28/2010 7:32am
If you go to the race early, and watch practice, you get a little more for your money. What actually pisses me off more is how much you have to pay for food and beer. Last year, I think it was close to $10 for a Bud Light and a hot dog was about $6. That's where your dollar loses it's value.
`ol Ger
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Piqua, OH US
3/28/2010 8:40am
Yes. The short tracks are glorified Arenacross'



`oG



Fleece192
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Equinunk, PA US
3/28/2010 8:53am
My only supercross was at Sam Boyd 2 years ago, yes it was expensive but well worth it. You go thru the pits without a pitpass and make a day out of it. When those flames go off like you see on TV you can feel the heat... Might go back this year..
The Rock
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3/28/2010 2:23pm
neiltkool wrote:
Thanks Rock, I appreciate your response. While I still like the idea of increasing the actual number of races throughout the evening (i.e. bringing back the...
Thanks Rock, I appreciate your response.

While I still like the idea of increasing the actual number of races throughout the evening (i.e. bringing back the semis), your suggestion of moving towards a standardized timed main, and perhaps it being helpful for TV, is an interesting one.

Just for fun I looked up the total race times from each of the 250 and 450 mains from this year's supercross season, and it turns out there is a huge variance in their total length. Not surprisingly, Daytona had the longest 450 main event so far this year in terms of total time. What is perhaps surprising though, is that the Daytona race was 32% longer in terms of total time than the shortest 450 main event so far this season, tonight's Jacksonville race.

Race - 250 main - 450 main

Anaheim I - 14:36 - 18:59
Phoenix - 13:55 - 18:09
Anaheim II - 14:54 - 19:47
San Fransisco - 13:28 - 18:12
San Diego - 13:52 - 18:27
Anaheim III - 15:21 - 20:28
Indianapolis - 13:09 - 17:20
Atlanta - 14:23 - 18:38
Daytona - 16:21 - 21:36
Toronto - 15:06 - 19:46
Dallas - 12:42 - 16:35
Jacksonville - 12:25 - 16:19

Average - 14:11 - 18:41
Thank you for putting the time into this to provide these figures. How can anyone say we don't need to move to time mains after looking at some these pitifully short main events?
spd721
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Fenton, MO US
3/28/2010 2:41pm
How about 15 minutes plus one lap for the 250 class and 20 minutes plus 1 lap for the 450 class
teggers
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Winter Park, FL US
3/28/2010 4:23pm
Race qualifying.
Draw sticks for assigned gates.
That should mix things up a bit.

I'd go back.
500 Mike
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3/28/2010 4:27pm
Gentlemen..... please remember it is all about the SHOW. It is not about the racing.
jbomx363
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Denham Springs, LA US
3/28/2010 4:28pm Edited Date/Time 3/28/2010 4:43pm
Timed main +1 or 2. Yes.

Taking 4 from LCQ for a start gate of 22. YES. And with that, only give points to the top 20.

Filling spots when racers can't make the night show or main. YES

Getting rid of Shaheen and Bates. YES

Giving riders more prize money. YES

TV showing full heats/lcq and mains. YES

TV showing ALL the results instead of the top 10. YES

rileymx
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Azores islands PT
3/28/2010 4:41pm
this sport has become more and more about major exposuse of its big names, and their big sponsors, for the general sports public......
the race format, track design, opening ceremonies and presentations.....its all for the cult of the superstars and for the tv.......but only a few get to profit from it, very few get to the podiums and are most times always the same ....
but when it is not worth the expense for the kind of rebound a medim to small team and rider gets from atending a race....toronto for exemple..!!!! all the business players come out and cry about the lack of riders at the gate.......less riders at the gate make the top ones look bad........
i think the semis are important to give spotlight time to does riders and teams that are not yet at a winning level but put in an already big effort......having the possiility to race up front, where everybody looks,,,,,, going to the podium and have their photo taken
is of huge importance to does riders and team that are there to make the main and try to look good........
without the offer of rebound to does teams, it makes life too hard for them and they will tend to go away if its all for the top guys, and by that its for all to lose......the all sport loses with atendences like toronto.......
find a way to bring back the semis, give the midle guys a chance go at it without the top dogs and get their 5 minutes of fame....... if a top dog misses a transfer spot he races the semi..........
3 from each heat go straight to main, all others go the the semis after that 6 transfer spot
and then a small lcq will find the last 2 spots.......

i did like some of the race formats that could be seen in the aussie series, diferent stuff that i think also works good.........starting positioning is crucial in sx.....so a format with more starts looks to be a good way to improve the racing and cold heip stpo that bowring feeling that some one lined races give after the riders establish their positions.........
this sport is more and more for the ones that live from it.......dont forget the ones that live to support it .......or you wont have anything to live from in the end.........

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