Is it time for an open class again?

kott0n
Profile picture for user kott0n
Posts
674
Joined
10/4/2016
Location
Vancouver, WA US
Fantasy
3779th
kott0n
Is it time for an open class in SX/MX?

Seems like the open class leveled the field between privateers and factory teams before, it would do it again.

There should be no displacement rules per engine type but having an open class means more races and they can keep the artificial rules.
|
dsmith
Profile picture for user dsmith
Posts
4273
Joined
3/29/2011
Location
way north, IN US
Fantasy
1470th
dsmith 11/1/2016 8:02am
11/1/2016 8:02am
so everybody races a 450?...don't they do that now?
GregDVT
Profile picture for user GregDVT
Posts
703
Joined
3/23/2016
Location
Phoenix, MD US
GregDVT 11/1/2016 8:14am
11/1/2016 8:14am
In an open class would there be no homogenization? Even with homogenized bikes they would be able to run Yz325 kits and KTM 300s i imagine

dcg141
Profile picture for user dcg141
Posts
2177
Joined
11/30/2009
Location
MS US
dcg141 11/1/2016 8:18am
11/1/2016 8:18am
I still would love to see a 125 class come back. Put an age limit on it and allow mfgs like TM and GasGas in.

The Shop

See All »
Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
Johnny Depp 11/1/2016 8:23am
11/1/2016 8:23am
Absolutely!

Electric, 2t, 4t, twin cylinder, rotary, diesel, steam, turbine, auto trans, auto clutch and whatever else someone wants to invent. Let the race track decide what should be there. If you think you can compete, bring it. Works, custom built, trials hybrids, garage specials, Frankenbikes and all.
kott0n
Profile picture for user kott0n
Posts
674
Joined
10/4/2016
Location
Vancouver, WA US
Fantasy
3779th
kott0n 11/1/2016 8:25am
11/1/2016 8:25am
Stuntman949 wrote:
Isn't the MX3 class technically open game?
It's my understanding that league is defunct
kott0n
Profile picture for user kott0n
Posts
674
Joined
10/4/2016
Location
Vancouver, WA US
Fantasy
3779th
kott0n 11/1/2016 8:28am
11/1/2016 8:28am
GregDVT wrote:
In an open class would there be no homogenization? Even with homogenized bikes they would be able to run Yz325 kits and KTM 300s i imagine

This is what I had in mind.

We know cc for cc the 2 stroke makes more power and thats the only reason displacement differences came about.

The large cc bikes, specifically 2 strokes, close the gap between factory and privateer.
BobPA
Profile picture for user BobPA
Posts
8028
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
BobPA 11/1/2016 8:28am
11/1/2016 8:28am
Johnny Depp wrote:
Absolutely! Electric, 2t, 4t, twin cylinder, rotary, diesel, steam, turbine, auto trans, auto clutch and whatever else someone wants to invent. Let the race track decide...
Absolutely!

Electric, 2t, 4t, twin cylinder, rotary, diesel, steam, turbine, auto trans, auto clutch and whatever else someone wants to invent. Let the race track decide what should be there. If you think you can compete, bring it. Works, custom built, trials hybrids, garage specials, Frankenbikes and all.
All good theory on paper, but who would actually spend the money trying to develop a completely new design? It is just not feasible in today's world, especially with the current bikes being so good off the showroom floor.
motomike137
Profile picture for user motomike137
Posts
6898
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
motomike137 11/1/2016 8:39am
11/1/2016 8:39am
GregDVT wrote:
In an open class would there be no homogenization? Even with homogenized bikes they would be able to run Yz325 kits and KTM 300s i imagine


Homogenized bikes? Upcoming sponsorship from the American dairy farmers?
Sidecar
Profile picture for user Sidecar
Posts
1725
Joined
1/29/2015
Location
GB
Sidecar 11/1/2016 8:55am
11/1/2016 8:55am
Stuntman949 wrote:
Isn't the MX3 class technically open game?
kott0n wrote:
It's my understanding that league is defunct
It was originally not on the 2017 schedule but is now back, thankfully, the racing was great this season.
kott0n
Profile picture for user kott0n
Posts
674
Joined
10/4/2016
Location
Vancouver, WA US
Fantasy
3779th
kott0n 11/1/2016 8:58am
11/1/2016 8:58am
Johnny Depp wrote:
Absolutely! Electric, 2t, 4t, twin cylinder, rotary, diesel, steam, turbine, auto trans, auto clutch and whatever else someone wants to invent. Let the race track decide...
Absolutely!

Electric, 2t, 4t, twin cylinder, rotary, diesel, steam, turbine, auto trans, auto clutch and whatever else someone wants to invent. Let the race track decide what should be there. If you think you can compete, bring it. Works, custom built, trials hybrids, garage specials, Frankenbikes and all.
BobPA wrote:
All good theory on paper, but who would actually spend the money trying to develop a completely new design? It is just not feasible in today's...
All good theory on paper, but who would actually spend the money trying to develop a completely new design? It is just not feasible in today's world, especially with the current bikes being so good off the showroom floor.
They just did? See alta. See the 4 company's who never stopped making 2 strokes also, the demand is there.
kott0n
Profile picture for user kott0n
Posts
674
Joined
10/4/2016
Location
Vancouver, WA US
Fantasy
3779th
kott0n 11/1/2016 8:59am
11/1/2016 8:59am
Sidecar wrote:
It was originally not on the 2017 schedule but is now back, thankfully, the racing was great this season.
This is awesome news!
GregDVT
Profile picture for user GregDVT
Posts
703
Joined
3/23/2016
Location
Phoenix, MD US
GregDVT 11/1/2016 9:17am
11/1/2016 9:17am
GregDVT wrote:
In an open class would there be no homogenization? Even with homogenized bikes they would be able to run Yz325 kits and KTM 300s i imagine

motomike137 wrote:

Homogenized bikes? Upcoming sponsorship from the American dairy farmers?
homogenize - to make uniform or similar

amalgamate, standardize, its all the same. AMA prefers to use homogenized.
BobPA
Profile picture for user BobPA
Posts
8028
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
BobPA 11/1/2016 9:46am
11/1/2016 9:46am
Johnny Depp wrote:
Absolutely! Electric, 2t, 4t, twin cylinder, rotary, diesel, steam, turbine, auto trans, auto clutch and whatever else someone wants to invent. Let the race track decide...
Absolutely!

Electric, 2t, 4t, twin cylinder, rotary, diesel, steam, turbine, auto trans, auto clutch and whatever else someone wants to invent. Let the race track decide what should be there. If you think you can compete, bring it. Works, custom built, trials hybrids, garage specials, Frankenbikes and all.
BobPA wrote:
All good theory on paper, but who would actually spend the money trying to develop a completely new design? It is just not feasible in today's...
All good theory on paper, but who would actually spend the money trying to develop a completely new design? It is just not feasible in today's world, especially with the current bikes being so good off the showroom floor.
kott0n wrote:
They just did? See alta. See the 4 company's who never stopped making 2 strokes also, the demand is there.
I have seen the Alta. I just do not see someone developing a wankel, twin, diesel, or competitive big bore two stroke. Like it or not the 450 four stroke would be hard to beat in the open class category.
motomike137
Profile picture for user motomike137
Posts
6898
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
motomike137 11/1/2016 10:18am
11/1/2016 10:18am
GregDVT wrote:
In an open class would there be no homogenization? Even with homogenized bikes they would be able to run Yz325 kits and KTM 300s i imagine

motomike137 wrote:

Homogenized bikes? Upcoming sponsorship from the American dairy farmers?
GregDVT wrote:
homogenize - to make uniform or similar

amalgamate, standardize, its all the same. AMA prefers to use homogenized.
I was just being a smart ass, I think you meant homologate Smile



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homologation_(motorsport)
SmoothOperator 11/1/2016 10:21am
11/1/2016 10:21am
Johnny Depp wrote:
Absolutely! Electric, 2t, 4t, twin cylinder, rotary, diesel, steam, turbine, auto trans, auto clutch and whatever else someone wants to invent. Let the race track decide...
Absolutely!

Electric, 2t, 4t, twin cylinder, rotary, diesel, steam, turbine, auto trans, auto clutch and whatever else someone wants to invent. Let the race track decide what should be there. If you think you can compete, bring it. Works, custom built, trials hybrids, garage specials, Frankenbikes and all.
BobPA wrote:
All good theory on paper, but who would actually spend the money trying to develop a completely new design? It is just not feasible in today's...
All good theory on paper, but who would actually spend the money trying to develop a completely new design? It is just not feasible in today's world, especially with the current bikes being so good off the showroom floor.
With a class, they would come...
Look at DH mountain biking. There are a lot of cottage / boutique builders who come up with some crazy shit to compete with the big manufacturers.
bvm111
Profile picture for user bvm111
Posts
9329
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV US
bvm111 11/1/2016 10:22am
11/1/2016 10:22am
why?

its died off how many times before both here in the states and Europe???
kott0n
Profile picture for user kott0n
Posts
674
Joined
10/4/2016
Location
Vancouver, WA US
Fantasy
3779th
kott0n 11/1/2016 10:22am
11/1/2016 10:22am
BobPA wrote:
All good theory on paper, but who would actually spend the money trying to develop a completely new design? It is just not feasible in today's...
All good theory on paper, but who would actually spend the money trying to develop a completely new design? It is just not feasible in today's world, especially with the current bikes being so good off the showroom floor.
kott0n wrote:
They just did? See alta. See the 4 company's who never stopped making 2 strokes also, the demand is there.
BobPA wrote:
I have seen the Alta. I just do not see someone developing a wankel, twin, diesel, or competitive big bore two stroke. Like it or not...
I have seen the Alta. I just do not see someone developing a wankel, twin, diesel, or competitive big bore two stroke. Like it or not the 450 four stroke would be hard to beat in the open class category.
It really would, I agree.

Having said that, if it so hard to beat, wouldn't you like the to see the races where someone or some manufacturer tries to dethrone the 4 stroke once again?

Pit Row

See All »
kott0n
Profile picture for user kott0n
Posts
674
Joined
10/4/2016
Location
Vancouver, WA US
Fantasy
3779th
kott0n 11/1/2016 10:22am
11/1/2016 10:22am
bvm111 wrote:
why?

its died off how many times before both here in the states and Europe???
Because of politics.
twotwosix
Profile picture for user twotwosix
Posts
1853
Joined
9/29/2016
Location
TN US
twotwosix 11/1/2016 10:28am
11/1/2016 10:28am
We should have an 'Open' class that is not under the production rule. Let the manufacturers show what they can do and test new ideas and machinery in race settings. It wouldn't even need to be a full season, no points, just say 8 races to begin with.
twotwosix
Profile picture for user twotwosix
Posts
1853
Joined
9/29/2016
Location
TN US
twotwosix 11/1/2016 10:30am
11/1/2016 10:30am
Also, they could do a spec series, like they do overseas with the YZ125s.

Or a spec Alta electric series. Alta would provide the bikes like the KJSC.
Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
Johnny Depp 11/1/2016 10:36am
11/1/2016 10:36am Edited Date/Time 11/1/2016 10:49am
BobPA wrote:
All good theory on paper, but who would actually spend the money trying to develop a completely new design? It is just not feasible in today's...
All good theory on paper, but who would actually spend the money trying to develop a completely new design? It is just not feasible in today's world, especially with the current bikes being so good off the showroom floor.
kott0n wrote:
They just did? See alta. See the 4 company's who never stopped making 2 strokes also, the demand is there.
BobPA wrote:
I have seen the Alta. I just do not see someone developing a wankel, twin, diesel, or competitive big bore two stroke. Like it or not...
I have seen the Alta. I just do not see someone developing a wankel, twin, diesel, or competitive big bore two stroke. Like it or not the 450 four stroke would be hard to beat in the open class category.
OK then why do the rules need to protect the 4t's? Of course no one can do it in the current situation.

GuyB
Profile picture for user GuyB
Posts
35700
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
Fantasy
1215th
GuyB 11/1/2016 11:05am
11/1/2016 11:05am Edited Date/Time 11/1/2016 12:07pm
Stuntman949 wrote:
Isn't the MX3 class technically open game?
Doesn't the MX3 only exist in the MXoN?
GregDVT
Profile picture for user GregDVT
Posts
703
Joined
3/23/2016
Location
Phoenix, MD US
GregDVT 11/1/2016 11:10am
11/1/2016 11:10am
motomike137 wrote:

Homogenized bikes? Upcoming sponsorship from the American dairy farmers?
GregDVT wrote:
homogenize - to make uniform or similar

amalgamate, standardize, its all the same. AMA prefers to use homogenized.
motomike137 wrote:
I was just being a smart ass, I think you meant homologate Smile



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homologation_(motorsport)
After some of the silly season talk I was afraid you were serious haha.

TruMoo factory Suzuki stamp it.
mx317
Profile picture for user mx317
Posts
4560
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
TN US
mx317 11/1/2016 11:22am
11/1/2016 11:22am
We have an open class, 450s. We need an entry level 125 class with an age limit.
mx317
Profile picture for user mx317
Posts
4560
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
TN US
mx317 11/1/2016 11:24am
11/1/2016 11:24am
or before long, an electric bike class
BobPA
Profile picture for user BobPA
Posts
8028
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
BobPA 11/1/2016 11:26am
11/1/2016 11:26am
SmoothOperator wrote:
With a class, they would come... Look at DH mountain biking. There are a lot of cottage / boutique builders who come up with some crazy...
With a class, they would come...
Look at DH mountain biking. There are a lot of cottage / boutique builders who come up with some crazy shit to compete with the big manufacturers.
Designing a bicycle is a little less involved then designing an engine and tranny from scratch.

I understand that DH bikes have a bunch of technology, but there are a lot more moving parts on an MX bike...
kott0n
Profile picture for user kott0n
Posts
674
Joined
10/4/2016
Location
Vancouver, WA US
Fantasy
3779th
kott0n 11/1/2016 11:32am
11/1/2016 11:32am
mx317 wrote:
We have an open class, 450s. We need an entry level 125 class with an age limit.
Oh so I can run a 450cc 2 stroke in this class? Let me help here.. No you can't.

It's a limited class with rules around engine displacement, the literal opposite of an open class.
kott0n
Profile picture for user kott0n
Posts
674
Joined
10/4/2016
Location
Vancouver, WA US
Fantasy
3779th
kott0n 11/1/2016 11:36am
11/1/2016 11:36am
Also all signs point to MX3 being dead.

Nothing stating 2017 will have a season.

Post a reply to: Is it time for an open class again?