Interesting McGrath Quote

Anonymous (not verified)
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9/25/2015 5:39am Edited Date/Time 9/26/2015 10:26am
In the latest issue of Dirt Rider where Jeremy is the guest editor (great read by the way)

"Back in the 90's, a good stock bike was a good bike. When we went to Europe in the wintertime, we would only bring our suspension and a pipe. We all raced stock bikes, and they were fast. If you were good enough, you could be competitive on a stock bike. Now a stock bike and a factory bike are nowhere near each other"

Makes me think how much times have changed. Bikes are even faster these days and yet people dump a boat load of money into their motors...and for what reason? If a near stock 250 2T(other than works suspension) was good enough for the King.......
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HenryA
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9/25/2015 5:51am
Hah, I thought that it was the complete opposite. 60hp, air forks, tuneable ECU, etc.
imoto34
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9/25/2015 5:55am
HenryA wrote:
Hah, I thought that it was the complete opposite. 60hp, air forks, tuneable ECU, etc.
Lol
cwtoyota
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9/25/2015 5:56am
I am confused whenever I see guys riding the Novice class on a 450 with engine mods.


JB 19
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9/25/2015 5:59am
Electronics. That's what the factory bikes have. That's what the stock bikes don't. Still think RV broke his butt because he doesn't know how to ride a dirt bike?

The Shop

jonesaustin
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9/25/2015 6:06am Edited Date/Time 9/25/2015 6:07am
as this is the case, remove the production rule and allow design and engineering to go haywire on innovation. since privateer machines are distant to the factory offering, end the rule and let's see some trick machinery again. it trickles down so the consumers win.
mb
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9/25/2015 6:11am
I think he missed the rear brake..

GP bikes are interesting to me. AMA bikes look like stock bikes with aftermarket parts installed (that anyone can buy). Electronics are nice, but they're not going to make or break a rider. If you can't compete on a stock 4 stroke with properly setup suspension I don't think fancy engine control is going to do anything for you. Electronics cost Marvin his chance at the title this year, just something to think about.
slipdog
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9/25/2015 6:16am
AMA spec class where everyone rides a stock '91 yz125, think about that...
Steadman
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9/25/2015 6:21am
cwtoyota wrote:
I am confused whenever I see guys riding the Novice class on a 450 with engine mods.


Exactly.

Who here honestly feels their 450 is under powered and that 60+ HP is necessary? (and is usable)
mx836
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9/25/2015 6:29am
as this is the case, remove the production rule and allow design and engineering to go haywire on innovation. since privateer machines are distant to the...
as this is the case, remove the production rule and allow design and engineering to go haywire on innovation. since privateer machines are distant to the factory offering, end the rule and let's see some trick machinery again. it trickles down so the consumers win.
Or it will turn an $8500 450 into an $11000 450 further killing off the sport that's hard enough for most to enjoy in the first place. The bikes are more than good enough already. You probably think minimum wage should be $15 an hour too.
Tbteam
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9/25/2015 6:37am
slipdog wrote:
AMA spec class where everyone rides a stock '91 yz125, think about that...
Which would be the greatest, most competitive, best sounding race in the history of man.

I'd pay a bunch of money to watch that.
davistld01
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9/25/2015 6:41am
cwtoyota wrote:
I am confused whenever I see guys riding the Novice class on a 450 with engine mods.


This kind of racer is the dream of the aftermarket hot-rod guys. He has lots (or parents have lots) of disposable income to throw at a toy...and because they've never taken the time to dial in the stock bike to the riders preference, they will spend more and more trying to "get it right".

Cha-ching! $$$
Twist1
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9/25/2015 6:56am
Maybe de-tuning a 4fiddy....
I was grateful to be taught that your suspension is paramount. That said, its a lot like our tax code. A lot of smart folks around dirt bikes, but still many most likely not dialed in with their suspension.
YZ324
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9/25/2015 7:05am
cwtoyota wrote:
I am confused whenever I see guys riding the Novice class on a 450 with engine mods.


I agree, Also I am confused when I see the class "450 Beginners". A whole lot of bike there for a beginner.
cwtoyota
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9/25/2015 8:03am
Twist1 wrote:
Maybe de-tuning a 4fiddy.... I was grateful to be taught that your suspension is paramount. That said, its a lot like our tax code. A lot...
Maybe de-tuning a 4fiddy....
I was grateful to be taught that your suspension is paramount. That said, its a lot like our tax code. A lot of smart folks around dirt bikes, but still many most likely not dialed in with their suspension.
After riding and racing a couple of YZ125s for the past few years I bought my first four stroke a month ago...

This YZ450 is very fast and actually was too abrupt on the first crack of the throttle. The engine would unsettle the bike in flat corners and off-cambers. I bought the mapping tool and de-tuned the bottom end a bit. It was worth almost 2 seconds a lap at one of my local tracks.

I'm working on dialing in the suspension now that I've found a fork height and sag setting that handles reasonably well in the corners. After that, I'll be able to give some good info to the suspension shop when I send them my fork & shock.

I believe you're dead on. A friend of mine always brings up this one statement from Roger DeCoster about first getting the best handling bike, then dealing with the engine second. I don't remember the exact quote though.
Silliker269
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9/25/2015 8:08am
Yeah that seems backwards to me compared to what most guys say.
Maybe tracks progressed faster them bikes ?
FLmxer
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9/25/2015 8:16am
I was always that guy saying do your suspension and leave the motor it has plenty. Well that was until I got a 15 Honda. It feels so slow compared to any bike I ever rode. Like a dog. All my other bikes will run circles around it. The big triple at FTT I hit pinned in the meat wfo and barely make it every time and didn't once. Ouch. But I can easily over jump it on everyone else's bike. So in this case I say I need more power but never have thought that before.
731chopper
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9/25/2015 8:17am
as this is the case, remove the production rule and allow design and engineering to go haywire on innovation. since privateer machines are distant to the...
as this is the case, remove the production rule and allow design and engineering to go haywire on innovation. since privateer machines are distant to the factory offering, end the rule and let's see some trick machinery again. it trickles down so the consumers win.
I don't think that is going to happen in the US since the manufacturer's are the ones who wanted the production rule in the first place. As a fan I would love to see trick works bikes at the pro races but if that goes against what the OEMs want to do then I'm not for it.

To the OP, Jeremy makes a great point but if you think about a 450 the same case can still be made. A stock 450 only needs proper suspension and maybe an exhaust to be competitive. A 250 needs motor work at that level to keep up with the PC/Geico/Star/etc bikes but wasn't that always the case in the old 125 class too?

I think ultimately this isn't so much an analysis of the bikes as it is of the riders' mentality. And that dovetails into a conversation about society in general today. It is common to make excuses and settle for reasons why you can't do something rather than creating a reason why you CAN do something. People have this shitty attitude that if something isn't perfect then it isn't good enough to even try. This is why it was so damn cool to see a 125 two-smoker in the 250 class this year. I know there was more to the story in that he got paid to ride that bike but still, he went out there on a freaking 125 outdoors and continued to be there.
TXDirt
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9/25/2015 8:27am
If you want to see the top of the sport get even smaller and more expensive then by all means remove the production rule. You will see many small teams fold and you will see a lot less startup teams.

With a moderate amount of money you can go buy off the shelf parts and make a very competitive bike in the U.S. Westen Peick did it for many years. He got 4th at Utah a few years back on a "self made" bike.

By "self-made" I mean that all of the parts he had are available to anyone else. And you can get your motor and suspension done by many affordable places just like he did. There was nothing "factory" on his bike. Just good parts and suspension/engine mods.

At the top level in the U.S. you just need a good bike setup and some quality parts and suspension/motor mods. This makes the barrier to entry a bit easier on the privateers.
cwtoyota
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9/25/2015 8:29am Edited Date/Time 9/25/2015 8:30am
731chopper wrote:
I don't think that is going to happen in the US since the manufacturer's are the ones who wanted the production rule in the first place...
I don't think that is going to happen in the US since the manufacturer's are the ones who wanted the production rule in the first place. As a fan I would love to see trick works bikes at the pro races but if that goes against what the OEMs want to do then I'm not for it.

To the OP, Jeremy makes a great point but if you think about a 450 the same case can still be made. A stock 450 only needs proper suspension and maybe an exhaust to be competitive. A 250 needs motor work at that level to keep up with the PC/Geico/Star/etc bikes but wasn't that always the case in the old 125 class too?

I think ultimately this isn't so much an analysis of the bikes as it is of the riders' mentality. And that dovetails into a conversation about society in general today. It is common to make excuses and settle for reasons why you can't do something rather than creating a reason why you CAN do something. People have this shitty attitude that if something isn't perfect then it isn't good enough to even try. This is why it was so damn cool to see a 125 two-smoker in the 250 class this year. I know there was more to the story in that he got paid to ride that bike but still, he went out there on a freaking 125 outdoors and continued to be there.
Your last paragraph... Yup, rider mentality is the critical piece.

Gared Steinke was up racing 125's with us at Washougal last weekend. I think he genuinely has fun doing it and seems very enthusiastic about racing in general.
brimx153
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9/25/2015 8:49am
i really dont understand this . as every other pro i ve heard , said that a stock 450 u can compete on it , its been said many time s. if you put RD on a pure stock bike outdoors he would easy get top 10 . back in the two stroke days .not a hope in hell. its a very weird thing for MC to say .when every other pro and ex pro says the opp
TXDirt
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9/25/2015 9:03am
brimx153 wrote:
i really dont understand this . as every other pro i ve heard , said that a stock 450 u can compete on it , its...
i really dont understand this . as every other pro i ve heard , said that a stock 450 u can compete on it , its been said many time s. if you put RD on a pure stock bike outdoors he would easy get top 10 . back in the two stroke days .not a hope in hell. its a very weird thing for MC to say .when every other pro and ex pro says the opp
No one says "pure stock" Come on. Can they atleast use Renthal bars?

Give Dungey his suspension and a few off the shelf parts and yes he would crack top ten I'm sure.

I think what people are saying is that you can build a competitive bike with what is already available. A lot of the factory bikes even use the same off the shelf parts a regular joe can go buy.

The two things you can't buy are the suspension and motor. But you can spend a lot less and probably get 80-90% of the way there by using the available companies in the industry (Race Tech, Pro Circuit etc.)

You likely do not have the money to have the team come from Japan with their laptops and fine tune fractional settings for you. And this wouldn't make any difference for you anyways.

Stock bikes are very good off the showroom floor. Throw on a set of bars and get your suspension set to your height/weight and riding ability and you are good for your local Sunday race. Want to take it further, then get a set of triple clamps, FMF pipe and silencer, maybe over sized rotor, some TI bolts, maybe Rekluse clutch and you are half way to a factory bike!
jeffro503
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9/25/2015 9:10am
That is really weird to hear that from MC. Back when he raced , the factory bikes were pretty trick and a hell of a lot faster than any stock bike. Now days , the damn 450's are so damn fast that even some of the faster pro's de-tune them slightly to make the ride-able.

I think the motor's on most bikes are competitive , even going back quite a few years. It's the suspension and other things that really set the bikes apart. And those things alone make a huge difference.
9/25/2015 9:11am
Steadman wrote:
Exactly.

Who here honestly feels their 450 is under powered and that 60+ HP is necessary? (and is usable)
i've ridden a modded 450 that made substantial more power than my 450 (that has pipe+cams) and it was very, very desirable, wish I had that much torque and HP on my bike.
Disclaimer: I mostly race at Glen Helen and those loamy corners and especially the hills love the extra HP. If you dont get a good run around the turn leading up to Mt. St. Helens, you can bet your ass someone is going to rip by you. Buds creek gets super loamy and robs power, then there are back sections by the truck track that opens up the bike.

Conversely and to your point, when I ride at Perris which is technical and tight, I feel I could be faster on a 250f.

No matter, I personally feel i would benefit from more HP.

Just my $0.02

Doug
jeffro503
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9/25/2015 9:12am
brimx153 wrote:
i really dont understand this . as every other pro i ve heard , said that a stock 450 u can compete on it , its...
i really dont understand this . as every other pro i ve heard , said that a stock 450 u can compete on it , its been said many time s. if you put RD on a pure stock bike outdoors he would easy get top 10 . back in the two stroke days .not a hope in hell. its a very weird thing for MC to say .when every other pro and ex pro says the opp
Yep , this exactly. Kinda weird.
Steadman
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9/25/2015 9:19am
Steadman wrote:
Exactly.

Who here honestly feels their 450 is under powered and that 60+ HP is necessary? (and is usable)
i've ridden a modded 450 that made substantial more power than my 450 (that has pipe+cams) and it was very, very desirable, wish I had that...
i've ridden a modded 450 that made substantial more power than my 450 (that has pipe+cams) and it was very, very desirable, wish I had that much torque and HP on my bike.
Disclaimer: I mostly race at Glen Helen and those loamy corners and especially the hills love the extra HP. If you dont get a good run around the turn leading up to Mt. St. Helens, you can bet your ass someone is going to rip by you. Buds creek gets super loamy and robs power, then there are back sections by the truck track that opens up the bike.

Conversely and to your point, when I ride at Perris which is technical and tight, I feel I could be faster on a 250f.

No matter, I personally feel i would benefit from more HP.

Just my $0.02

Doug
Great point Doug. I didn't take that into consideration. I've never been to any of those tracks but I can see how that makes sense, especially Glen Helen with those massive hills. The tracks I ride are small, hence why my main ride is a 250F. Quality feedback,thanks!
9/25/2015 9:19am
The king has no idea what he's talking about over the weekend warriors here....Right.....
hvaughn88
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9/25/2015 9:45am
I'll say this...when it comes to opinions on dirt bikes, racing, etc., I will take MC's word as the gospel truth every time. Perhaps I'm an MC, sheeple haha. Yup, i'm fine with that.
jeffro503
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9/25/2015 9:55am
hvaughn88 wrote:
I'll say this...when it comes to opinions on dirt bikes, racing, etc., I will take MC's word as the gospel truth every time. Perhaps I'm an...
I'll say this...when it comes to opinions on dirt bikes, racing, etc., I will take MC's word as the gospel truth every time. Perhaps I'm an MC, sheeple haha. Yup, i'm fine with that.
I feel the same about MC , as the dude has literally been there and done that. What I found odd in what he said is , him riding stock bikes with good suspension and a pipe. I don't think that guy ever rode anything like that , as his moors were pumped to the gills just as much as anyone else he was racing against.

I've been going to the SX and nationals for many , many years , and I can close my eyes and just listen to the bikes ripping by and there is a huge difference in the sounds of the factory motors , compared to the privateer and even most satellite bikes. I can tell a factory bike by just the sound it makes ( which is very well tuned and built extremely good ). A lot of those factory motors are only built to last 4-5hrs too.

I fuggin' love MC , always have , but sheeesh , I think it's exaggerating a little bit here.
cslacker
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9/25/2015 9:59am
Just because you hear pro's talking about "detuning" their 450s doesn't mean they are making them slower. For example you can "detune" the bottom end snap of a yz450f to make it more controllable but you are actually making it faster by doing so. I really doubt they actually are pulling hp from pro bikes when they are saying they detune it. They are just fixing the power delivery to make it smoother. That way they can add more torque and it remains controllable.

And as said above, I will take the Kings word for it.
coolhand
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9/25/2015 10:10am
Saw MC many times in Europe, in Paris Randy uncrated a brand new YZ, put forks / Shock / Pipe and bars on it.
Changed the brass and tightened the spokes x2...

MC kicked their ass...

So...next question.

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