Anonymous (not verified)
9/25/2015 5:39am
9/25/2015 5:39am
Edited Date/Time
9/26/2015 10:26am
In the latest issue of Dirt Rider where Jeremy is the guest editor (great read by the way)
"Back in the 90's, a good stock bike was a good bike. When we went to Europe in the wintertime, we would only bring our suspension and a pipe. We all raced stock bikes, and they were fast. If you were good enough, you could be competitive on a stock bike. Now a stock bike and a factory bike are nowhere near each other"
Makes me think how much times have changed. Bikes are even faster these days and yet people dump a boat load of money into their motors...and for what reason? If a near stock 250 2T(other than works suspension) was good enough for the King.......
"Back in the 90's, a good stock bike was a good bike. When we went to Europe in the wintertime, we would only bring our suspension and a pipe. We all raced stock bikes, and they were fast. If you were good enough, you could be competitive on a stock bike. Now a stock bike and a factory bike are nowhere near each other"
Makes me think how much times have changed. Bikes are even faster these days and yet people dump a boat load of money into their motors...and for what reason? If a near stock 250 2T(other than works suspension) was good enough for the King.......
The Shop
GP bikes are interesting to me. AMA bikes look like stock bikes with aftermarket parts installed (that anyone can buy). Electronics are nice, but they're not going to make or break a rider. If you can't compete on a stock 4 stroke with properly setup suspension I don't think fancy engine control is going to do anything for you. Electronics cost Marvin his chance at the title this year, just something to think about.
Who here honestly feels their 450 is under powered and that 60+ HP is necessary? (and is usable)
I'd pay a bunch of money to watch that.
Cha-ching! $$$
I was grateful to be taught that your suspension is paramount. That said, its a lot like our tax code. A lot of smart folks around dirt bikes, but still many most likely not dialed in with their suspension.
This YZ450 is very fast and actually was too abrupt on the first crack of the throttle. The engine would unsettle the bike in flat corners and off-cambers. I bought the mapping tool and de-tuned the bottom end a bit. It was worth almost 2 seconds a lap at one of my local tracks.
I'm working on dialing in the suspension now that I've found a fork height and sag setting that handles reasonably well in the corners. After that, I'll be able to give some good info to the suspension shop when I send them my fork & shock.
I believe you're dead on. A friend of mine always brings up this one statement from Roger DeCoster about first getting the best handling bike, then dealing with the engine second. I don't remember the exact quote though.
Maybe tracks progressed faster them bikes ?
To the OP, Jeremy makes a great point but if you think about a 450 the same case can still be made. A stock 450 only needs proper suspension and maybe an exhaust to be competitive. A 250 needs motor work at that level to keep up with the PC/Geico/Star/etc bikes but wasn't that always the case in the old 125 class too?
I think ultimately this isn't so much an analysis of the bikes as it is of the riders' mentality. And that dovetails into a conversation about society in general today. It is common to make excuses and settle for reasons why you can't do something rather than creating a reason why you CAN do something. People have this shitty attitude that if something isn't perfect then it isn't good enough to even try. This is why it was so damn cool to see a 125 two-smoker in the 250 class this year. I know there was more to the story in that he got paid to ride that bike but still, he went out there on a freaking 125 outdoors and continued to be there.
With a moderate amount of money you can go buy off the shelf parts and make a very competitive bike in the U.S. Westen Peick did it for many years. He got 4th at Utah a few years back on a "self made" bike.
By "self-made" I mean that all of the parts he had are available to anyone else. And you can get your motor and suspension done by many affordable places just like he did. There was nothing "factory" on his bike. Just good parts and suspension/engine mods.
At the top level in the U.S. you just need a good bike setup and some quality parts and suspension/motor mods. This makes the barrier to entry a bit easier on the privateers.
Pit Row
Gared Steinke was up racing 125's with us at Washougal last weekend. I think he genuinely has fun doing it and seems very enthusiastic about racing in general.
Give Dungey his suspension and a few off the shelf parts and yes he would crack top ten I'm sure.
I think what people are saying is that you can build a competitive bike with what is already available. A lot of the factory bikes even use the same off the shelf parts a regular joe can go buy.
The two things you can't buy are the suspension and motor. But you can spend a lot less and probably get 80-90% of the way there by using the available companies in the industry (Race Tech, Pro Circuit etc.)
You likely do not have the money to have the team come from Japan with their laptops and fine tune fractional settings for you. And this wouldn't make any difference for you anyways.
Stock bikes are very good off the showroom floor. Throw on a set of bars and get your suspension set to your height/weight and riding ability and you are good for your local Sunday race. Want to take it further, then get a set of triple clamps, FMF pipe and silencer, maybe over sized rotor, some TI bolts, maybe Rekluse clutch and you are half way to a factory bike!
I think the motor's on most bikes are competitive , even going back quite a few years. It's the suspension and other things that really set the bikes apart. And those things alone make a huge difference.
Disclaimer: I mostly race at Glen Helen and those loamy corners and especially the hills love the extra HP. If you dont get a good run around the turn leading up to Mt. St. Helens, you can bet your ass someone is going to rip by you. Buds creek gets super loamy and robs power, then there are back sections by the truck track that opens up the bike.
Conversely and to your point, when I ride at Perris which is technical and tight, I feel I could be faster on a 250f.
No matter, I personally feel i would benefit from more HP.
Just my $0.02
Doug
I've been going to the SX and nationals for many , many years , and I can close my eyes and just listen to the bikes ripping by and there is a huge difference in the sounds of the factory motors , compared to the privateer and even most satellite bikes. I can tell a factory bike by just the sound it makes ( which is very well tuned and built extremely good ). A lot of those factory motors are only built to last 4-5hrs too.
I fuggin' love MC , always have , but sheeesh , I think it's exaggerating a little bit here.
And as said above, I will take the Kings word for it.
Changed the brass and tightened the spokes x2...
MC kicked their ass...
So...next question.
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