If JGR was on anything else...

JoJmoto
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JoJmoto
Edited Date/Time 4/20/2015 6:27pm
This may have been spoken about before but, if JGR was on any other brand of bike, would they still struggle? Just seems like no matter who they hire, and they have hired some of the best riders out there, they all seem to struggle on that team.. Is it the Yamaha, due to its the only bike out there with the redesigned engine slant ect...? Peick does seem to do well on their bike, but for the most part, from what it looks like to me, others struggle.

Does anyone know someone who has a "Standard" Jap bike that has been totally JGR modded? How does their work compare to that of Pro Circuit and other companies?
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hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 4/19/2015 8:52am
4/19/2015 8:52am
I think it's been brought up once or twice
TbonesPop
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TbonesPop 4/19/2015 8:56am
4/19/2015 8:56am
It's not the bike. With the capabilities of JGR, they could make that bike a hover-craft if they wanted to. Some riders have done better on their bikes, some have done the same, and some have done worse. Their issue, they haven't hired a rider with the first name of Ryan in the last 5 years.
davistld01
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davistld01 4/19/2015 8:56am
4/19/2015 8:56am Edited Date/Time 4/19/2015 9:00am
IMO, Weston would make a Vespa scooter look good the way he's riding now. He's focused, 100% committed, and physically strong enough to manhandle the bike to do what he wants..and that makes up for some bike issues that might be there. He's not as smooth a rider as some others though, and that might be because of how he's being forced to ride. That said...JGR has also not made stellar rider choices for their team in a long time.
Xeno
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Xeno 4/19/2015 9:14am
4/19/2015 9:14am
The bikes seem really, really good from my couch. Nicoletti rips holeshots on those bikes.

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davistld01
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davistld01 4/19/2015 9:18am
4/19/2015 9:18am
Xeno wrote:
The bikes seem really, really good from my couch. Nicoletti rips holeshots on those bikes.
Plenty of ponies, no doubt...just inadequate handles.
oshow
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oshow 4/19/2015 9:21am
4/19/2015 9:21am
Question is how would Westin do on say a factory Suzuki or Factory KTM ?

Or do you think the Yamaha that no one does great on just fits him?
Zycki11
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Zycki11 4/19/2015 9:42am
4/19/2015 9:42am
I guess I am missing how it handles poorly? Brayton was awesome on the bike, Peick is looking good on it. Barcia looks like his normal erratic self.
JoJmoto
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JoJmoto 4/19/2015 9:57am
4/19/2015 9:57am
No doubt the bike has power, but yeah there are more things to it then a holeshot.

I also wounder, do they do a lot of in season race testing of new parts? Maybe some work maybe some not so much..?

I like the company and they seem to hire good riders but do they wait to long to get them?
Juss
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Juss 4/19/2015 10:30am
4/19/2015 10:30am
TbonesPop wrote:
It's not the bike. With the capabilities of JGR, they could make that bike a hover-craft if they wanted to. Some riders have done better on...
It's not the bike. With the capabilities of JGR, they could make that bike a hover-craft if they wanted to. Some riders have done better on their bikes, some have done the same, and some have done worse. Their issue, they haven't hired a rider with the first name of Ryan in the last 5 years.
So your an expert on a bike you have never ridden? They have had 3 wins in how many years?
olds cool
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olds cool 4/19/2015 7:26pm
4/19/2015 7:26pm
Prolly shoulda hired a few more gingers through the years...
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Sully 4/19/2015 8:12pm
4/19/2015 8:12pm
Zycki11 wrote:
I guess I am missing how it handles poorly? Brayton was awesome on the bike, Peick is looking good on it. Barcia looks like his normal...
I guess I am missing how it handles poorly? Brayton was awesome on the bike, Peick is looking good on it. Barcia looks like his normal erratic self.
It seems like the bigger guys do well on the 450 while the shorter guys struggle. Peick, Brayton and Davi don't/didn't seem to have a problem with it, but shorter guys like Barcia and James don't/didn't seem to find their comfort zone. Martin and Webb ride the 250 like it's on rails, though, so I'm not sure what the design differences are.
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kiwifan 4/19/2015 9:36pm
4/19/2015 9:36pm
So here's the thing, people bagged Barcia when he was on Honda saying his results were due to the fact it was the bikes fault, now when he went to JGR they said oh yeah now hes on a high HP bike he will dominate...well maybe the Honda isnt that bad? Yes hes been injured but when not injured his results are worse then 2014

Let face it, JGR will only ever choose Yamaha, Suzuki or Kawasaki....no one uses Hondas (and Vital would go mad if they did use them) and KTM/Kawasaki are pretty well looked after...IF they did move I would bet on Suzuki
Cancerman
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Cancerman 4/19/2015 9:56pm
4/19/2015 9:56pm
I think JGR can do just about anything needed to make a YZ450 comfy for their riders. The new generation is a great platform for a team like JGR. Remember, they get Factory Yamaha support, so they are Factory Yamaha, in a sense. The motors are super fast, all the mods like subframe lowering, longer link, relocation of the motor, etc., are available, along with suspension customization, hell, they even made their own shocks for awhile. They go through the whoops great. I've seen every bike out there loose the front end, one time or another. As far as their riders, remember, they can only hire who's available at the time. Barcia got hurt, and that reset the clock with the time off the bike. Peick is still climbing the learning curve. And He's gotten banged up this year as well. I think they are doing ok, considering everything.
GeorgiePorgie 4/19/2015 11:14pm
4/19/2015 11:14pm
If any team can compete with a factory team it's JGR. a championship will come and it might be from peick in 1-3 years. On a jgr yamaha.
The Rock
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The Rock 4/20/2015 12:28am
4/20/2015 12:28am
Zycki11 wrote:
I guess I am missing how it handles poorly? Brayton was awesome on the bike, Peick is looking good on it. Barcia looks like his normal...
I guess I am missing how it handles poorly? Brayton was awesome on the bike, Peick is looking good on it. Barcia looks like his normal erratic self.
Barcia rides his 450 like a 250.
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joeellis 4/20/2015 3:48am
4/20/2015 3:48am
I just don't believe the bike is inferior to all the others, but everyone has a right to their opinion. I honestly believe if Dungey had been on a Yamaha for the past 4 or 5 years, he would still be way in front. The other guys seem to be doing fine with results that are probably close to their norm, except for Barcia, but he missed much of the season. Weston is having the best year of his career and has also been injured. Barcia may or may not have had a better season on another brand. We'll never know. He started strong Saturday night during the early part of the race. In my opinion, his fading probably had more to do with fitness than anything. As long as he was out without being able to maintain his cardio fitness (broken hip), he can't possibly be as fit as he needs to be.

At any rate, it appears that the 2016 YZ450F will have a newly designed frame. If so and it suits the h.p. of the 450 better, maybe we will see a difference in the way the bike handles. I suppose if Barcia's results still don't improve, the bike will still be the blame.
nc97
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nc97 4/20/2015 4:35am
4/20/2015 4:35am
Wait about 2 more years and Cooper will put that 450 out front.
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Xracerdone 4/20/2015 4:54am
4/20/2015 4:54am
nc97 wrote:
Wait about 2 more years and Cooper will put that 450 out front.
Yep. There aint nothing wrong with the 2015 yz450, yamaha got the kinks out, it's a great bike. Barcia just sucks & is a head case who has no control of his emotions, it aint the bike that's holding him back

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neverwasfastenuf 4/20/2015 4:56am
4/20/2015 4:56am
I think JGR has come a long way in the last 2 years but I also believe Yamaha has given them a much better product to start with in the last 2 years as well.
TanHner36
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TanHner36 4/20/2015 5:18am
4/20/2015 5:18am
I think they just need a better program figured out. There doesn't seem to be much structure. They're probably top 3 in the wealthiest teams and sure as hell top 3 in their capabilities. But something is missing. Maybe there is such a thing as too much money to play with.
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h&m_cycle 4/20/2015 5:24am
4/20/2015 5:24am
davistld01 wrote:
IMO, Weston would make a Vespa scooter look good the way he's riding now. He's focused, 100% committed, and physically strong enough to manhandle the bike...
IMO, Weston would make a Vespa scooter look good the way he's riding now. He's focused, 100% committed, and physically strong enough to manhandle the bike to do what he wants..and that makes up for some bike issues that might be there. He's not as smooth a rider as some others though, and that might be because of how he's being forced to ride. That said...JGR has also not made stellar rider choices for their team in a long time.
I'm looking forward to seeing if he can finish in the top 5 outdoors or is Weston just another supercross guy.
time will tell.
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IWreckALot 4/20/2015 5:26am
4/20/2015 5:26am
neverwasfastenuf wrote:
I think JGR has come a long way in the last 2 years but I also believe Yamaha has given them a much better product to...
I think JGR has come a long way in the last 2 years but I also believe Yamaha has given them a much better product to start with in the last 2 years as well.
When they first launched the reverse engine, it seemed like a step backwards at the time. Stewarts results and comments didn't really help the bike's image. I believe their problem is that riders like Dungey, RV, Roczen, and any other real championship contender just wouldn't consider racing it even at this point. It's so different from what they've ridden and they'd just rather steer clear. Not saying they COULDN'T do well on it, but they just don't. The new bike is obviously improved but I think they have another year or two before they get a top rider.
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redrider_714 4/20/2015 6:32am
4/20/2015 6:32am
kiwifan wrote:
So here's the thing, people bagged Barcia when he was on Honda saying his results were due to the fact it was the bikes fault, now...
So here's the thing, people bagged Barcia when he was on Honda saying his results were due to the fact it was the bikes fault, now when he went to JGR they said oh yeah now hes on a high HP bike he will dominate...well maybe the Honda isnt that bad? Yes hes been injured but when not injured his results are worse then 2014

Let face it, JGR will only ever choose Yamaha, Suzuki or Kawasaki....no one uses Hondas (and Vital would go mad if they did use them) and KTM/Kawasaki are pretty well looked after...IF they did move I would bet on Suzuki
I don't see them switching to Honda or Suzuki. I remember a few years ago reading that they went with Yahama because it wasn't considered a "conflict of interests" with the NASCAR team having factory Toyota backing. Maybe Kawasaki or KTM/Husky if they did switch manufacturers.
davistld01
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davistld01 4/20/2015 6:48am
4/20/2015 6:48am
Zycki11 wrote:
I guess I am missing how it handles poorly? Brayton was awesome on the bike, Peick is looking good on it. Barcia looks like his normal...
I guess I am missing how it handles poorly? Brayton was awesome on the bike, Peick is looking good on it. Barcia looks like his normal erratic self.
Watch any Yamaha rider go around the average SX track, and compare the way the bike appears to hook up...or not hook up, compared to the competition. They seem "loose" and unstable compared to the other bikes. There's no questioning the horsepower output. WP pulled Dungey on the straights with ease, but even though I'd say the Yamaha "fits" him better than it does somebody smallish like Barcia or Stewart...it still looked squirrelly everywhere else to me.
Mikeyam187
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Mikeyam187 4/20/2015 6:53am
4/20/2015 6:53am
Preposterous... I know people who love them...everything about them...maybe it doesn't turn like the Suzuki but its a toss up for the high speed stability of the yamaha.
TanHner36
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TanHner36 4/20/2015 7:03am
4/20/2015 7:03am
I think the final test of the new Yamahas and JGR with them is going to be nationals. Really let that power open up.
Missing_Muffs 4/20/2015 7:05am
4/20/2015 7:05am
I think Joe Gibbs himself needs to get a little more involved. He stops by every now and then but its pretty much his sons show to run. From talking to a couple people that work there its a great palce to work, Maybe the heat needs to be turned up.

Zesiger 112
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Zesiger 112 4/20/2015 12:03pm
4/20/2015 12:03pm
Jeremy Martin, cooper webb. There is nothing wrong with the yamahas. If that's true then the new KTM factory edition must suck too. I mean just look at how much Justin Hill has struggled. Nevermind dungey and musquin success
davistld01
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davistld01 4/20/2015 12:17pm
4/20/2015 12:17pm
Zesiger 112 wrote:
Jeremy Martin, cooper webb. There is nothing wrong with the yamahas. If that's true then the new KTM factory edition must suck too. I mean just...
Jeremy Martin, cooper webb. There is nothing wrong with the yamahas. If that's true then the new KTM factory edition must suck too. I mean just look at how much Justin Hill has struggled. Nevermind dungey and musquin success
That's the 250f's...not the 450f's. Different dealio.

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