I need input from anyone involved with a moto track and finances

hvaughn88
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9/18/2014 1:56pm
Agfracing wrote:
Ive been involved with motocross since i was four. I think i know the market. Again to everyone trying to talk me out of it. Don't...
Ive been involved with motocross since i was four. I think i know the market. Again to everyone trying to talk me out of it. Don't. Im not trying to get rich. If i opened a track and had a place to ride once the maintenance was done and i didn't make a single dime off of it but it paid for itself after a few years i would be happy.

Im looking for people who are actually involved with a track and know about the functionality of them. I bet half of the people saying not to do it have never even volunteered at a track before.
lostboy819 wrote:
Well I have been involved sense 1974 and worked several tracks including Ponca where I grew up and the Lakewood National track and these are both...
Well I have been involved sense 1974 and worked several tracks including Ponca where I grew up and the Lakewood National track and these are both owned by the city that they are located in and both tracks are leased out for next to nothing. My Friends own a track that has been around sense the late 60s and is a very popular track owned by racers who have other jobs and that track is prepped and has races several times a year but they would sell it in a heart beat just to get out from under it. Rider numbers have dropped more than 50% over that last 15 years and get worse every year, so you go right ahead and start your track Mr trump seeing that at age 22 you know everything there is to know about the motocross market. Pinch
Agfracing wrote:
I didn't say everyone had no experience. I was simply stating some of you guys probably don't. I know its not a profitable venture at all...
I didn't say everyone had no experience. I was simply stating some of you guys probably don't. I know its not a profitable venture at all. But the goal here isn't to make money. I didn't post here and ask you guys to talk em out of it. I posted to ask for information to help me decide for myself.
I get what you're saying and if you have already decided you're going to do it, then by all means, get it done. I would consider what some of these guys are saying, though. In my opinion, just because you have been around motocross a long time, doesn't translate into knowing the ins and outs of how to operate a moto facility. I liken it to real estate developers. Tons of people own real estate, correct? That doesn't make qualified to be a developer just because they have owned a piece of real estate for a long time. See the correlation? Obviously, every industry has its exceptions. For every tycoon out there that made a fortune, there were probably a lot of people telling him not to take the risk. But for the most part, if damn near everyone that is involved in the very thing you are asking about and telling you not to do it, I would place a fair amount of emphasis on their advice.

By the way, i don't intend for the real estate development point to turn into it's own argument, I'm just using it as a point. I know there are probably people on both sides of that here so we can save that for another thread, haha.
FreshTopEnd
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9/18/2014 2:11pm Edited Date/Time 9/18/2014 2:14pm
Find and keep a good relationship with a solid insurance agent, preferably someone who knows and likes bikes and therefore understands your business and the risks involved.

Run it like a business and charge what it takes to do it right. If what you can charge isn't enough to cover costs to do it right and make it worthwhile to you for the effort you put in, then be real about that. If you run it as a membership and the upfront buy in is dissipated by mid year, then you're not charging enough.

Consider whether you want (or can accommodate) a lot of riders. If you can't, do you live in an area where you can limit the numbers and attract people who are willing to pay and have the means to pay a higher admission. Some people may pay a premium to avoid the chaos of more wide open spots

Consider selling advertisements or sponsorships. Consider allowing someone to bring a "ride day" parts and accessories business on site, for fee or free, or food trucks, etc. Be creative about ways you might leverage additional revenue around the track operations.

Try to be reliable in when you're open and have an updated website that tells people when you're not.

Setting it up as a corporation to shield yourself from personal liability won't necessarily shield the property from loss, and you need to adequately capitalize the business to enable it to compensate someone "wrongfully" injured. Court's usually will ignore the corporate form if it's determined that the owner didn't fund the business adequately to deal with the risks foreseeable for the type of venture. That exposure and issue is generally met with insurance, unless you're prepared to self-insure in 7 figures.

Don't scrimp on flaggers and safety. That's part of doing it right. If your clients won't pay what it costs to have those basic safety elements, then it's not worth doing (and in fact those are the folks who, if you cut corners, are most likely to bite back if something goes wrong.
1bigsave
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9/18/2014 2:23pm
You asked for input. You might want to listen.
lostboy819
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9/18/2014 2:31pm
Agfracing wrote:
Ive been involved with motocross since i was four. I think i know the market. Again to everyone trying to talk me out of it. Don't...
Ive been involved with motocross since i was four. I think i know the market. Again to everyone trying to talk me out of it. Don't. Im not trying to get rich. If i opened a track and had a place to ride once the maintenance was done and i didn't make a single dime off of it but it paid for itself after a few years i would be happy.

Im looking for people who are actually involved with a track and know about the functionality of them. I bet half of the people saying not to do it have never even volunteered at a track before.
lostboy819 wrote:
Well I have been involved sense 1974 and worked several tracks including Ponca where I grew up and the Lakewood National track and these are both...
Well I have been involved sense 1974 and worked several tracks including Ponca where I grew up and the Lakewood National track and these are both owned by the city that they are located in and both tracks are leased out for next to nothing. My Friends own a track that has been around sense the late 60s and is a very popular track owned by racers who have other jobs and that track is prepped and has races several times a year but they would sell it in a heart beat just to get out from under it. Rider numbers have dropped more than 50% over that last 15 years and get worse every year, so you go right ahead and start your track Mr trump seeing that at age 22 you know everything there is to know about the motocross market. Pinch
Agfracing wrote:
I didn't say everyone had no experience. I was simply stating some of you guys probably don't. I know its not a profitable venture at all...
I didn't say everyone had no experience. I was simply stating some of you guys probably don't. I know its not a profitable venture at all. But the goal here isn't to make money. I didn't post here and ask you guys to talk em out of it. I posted to ask for information to help me decide for myself.
Seems you already decided for yourself and just want to hear the information that agrees with your stance. Hell no one is telling you that you will money, YOU WONT most are trying to help keep you from losing your ass. I would do a private track that only a handful of people could ride at as long as they help with upkeep and expenses but then again what do we know.Whistling

The Shop

10000hrs
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9/18/2014 2:52pm Edited Date/Time 9/18/2014 2:53pm
This thread makes me sad in a way. Most of us have carved out a track at a gravel pit or in the desert or ridden at a freinds track. And we didnt have flaggers or an ambulance on site. And it wasnt graded very often if ever. And dozen of peolple showed up to practice. Why? Because we wanted a plce to ride and we accepted the risk and conditions. Practice track only mind you.

So the OP wants to set up a ( practice ) track and maybe cover his costs. And everyone has many valid points, chief of which are safety and liability. So why do we expect more from a paid facility? Isnt there an intermediate level of facility where people accpt the risk and conditions for a lower cost? Or can we balme the lawyers or the one in a thousand litigous mxer?
JB 19
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9/18/2014 3:07pm
I know from experience that most people don't know how to run a business and the same people will tell you not to open the business you have in mind. The internet is full of people saying don't do this and don't do that. People in general are negative thinking. They are afraid. They are also jealous.

I own a handful of residential rental properties. Made up my mind in my mid 20's that I wanted to get into that business. Everyone said don't be a landlord.......don't do it......no money in it.....people will rip you off............................I did it anyway.

I'm not Donald Trump, but between my 4 rentals I currently have I own 200,000$ in properties that other people paid for (renters) and I profit 1200$ a month......and I feel like I'm just now getting good at it.

Research for 5 mins what people would tell you about being a land lord and you will see tons of horror stories.......mostly from people who never did it or people who weren't smart enough or resilient enough to figure it out.

"Go confidently in the direction of your dreams, live the life you have you have imagined." Henry David Thoreau
Adam43
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9/18/2014 4:46pm
If you're convinced your local market is strong enough for you to break even, test it first.

Pre-sell your track memberships before taking ownership. Be completely honest and open about your intentions, that if you get enough traction you will launch the venture, and if not you will refund them 100%.

Lots of people will tell you they will support it, but words are cheap, especially from motocrossers. Asking for real money in advance is a true way to gauge the viability of the enterprise. If someone says they won't pay you until it is an actual operation, odds are they wouldn't buy a membership anyway. In the real world, people PRE-ORDER shit all the time. If you want to run such a business you might as well get used to asking people for money.
JB 19
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9/18/2014 5:09pm
I respectfully disagree. No way I would hand over 200 or 300$ to a guy who plans on starting a track, but is testing interest. So lets say a year later this track still isn't up and going.......What happened to my 300$?

I know that corporations routinely lease space that isn't even built yet......This is a little different.
JustMX
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TN US
9/18/2014 8:09pm
How many tracks have you actually "worked" at or for? If you haven't followed a track owner around from daylight til dark, then you don't have...
How many tracks have you actually "worked" at or for? If you haven't followed a track owner around from daylight til dark, then you don't have a clue how much work is required. The work for an event starts two weeks before, works up to 18 hour or more days and then it takes about a week to clean up and rest. That's three weeks out of the month. You just want to have practice on sat/sun? Start working on wednesday. There are plenty of people that tell you they will help, but they can't be there until Sunday around 8am and can't stay past 5pm. Insert reasons here_______________. Most of them will tell you how they can "operate equipment", but they don't want to be a yellow flagger, pick up trash, check the toilets or any of the many crappy jobs that are required to keep a track going. You want to ride your own track? HAH. I've promoted mx races since 1983 and have never ridden or raced at any of them. I have my own practice track and I get to ride it maybe 5-6 times a year. Most of the time I am prepping it for other people to ride. When I want to ride, I go to someone else's track. They do all the work and I ride. Memberships? I say bullshit. You take all the money in at the first of the year and it's gone by July. Guess who pays for fuel, track prep, toilets etc the rest of the year. Slack off on any of that and the memberships will tank. Complaints? You better have thick skin because every swinging dick knows ten times what you know about your own track. Go ahead if you love it, just don't expect to ride much on your own track. You'll be too tired to have any fun like that. I've done it all.....licked the stamps, cleaned the toilets, sold the hot dogs, driven the dozer, the tractor, the water truck, scored and tallied, announced, been the referee, picked up the trash, mowed, weedeated....makes you tired doesn't it. It has been fun, I'm not rich, I am smarter and older. You will be too someday.
This reply belongs in the hall of.fame..... Truer words have never been spoken

Been helping at tracks.since I987, over 500 events... Started.running.my own in 1994... Over 400 races and countless practices......

if you seek knowledge start with that burning feeling on your face from truth bitchslapping you...... Learn.to like it...
Adam43
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9/18/2014 8:23pm
JB 19 wrote:
I respectfully disagree. No way I would hand over 200 or 300$ to a guy who plans on starting a track, but is testing interest. So...
I respectfully disagree. No way I would hand over 200 or 300$ to a guy who plans on starting a track, but is testing interest. So lets say a year later this track still isn't up and going.......What happened to my 300$?

I know that corporations routinely lease space that isn't even built yet......This is a little different.
What if you hand over $300 for a membership once he opens, and you and two others are the only ones who did? He goes broke almost immediately and your money is still gone.

The idea is obviously to return the funds if he can't drum up enough support. There are a number of crowdfunding sites available that can facilitate such a thing and protect the customer's investments. Funding goal not reached = money returned.
Jack mehoff
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9/18/2014 9:45pm
Agfracing wrote:
Thanks to those of you giving good advice. Those of you saying don't do it.. Not really what i was looking for. Im not trying to...
Thanks to those of you giving good advice. Those of you saying don't do it.. Not really what i was looking for. Im not trying to get rich off of a track, I just want a place that I can get going that will support itself. I understand how much work it would be and I had already thought putting riders to work in exchange for practice/race fees. the advertising part of this was also something i thought of. I went to college for business/marketing so marketing the track wouldn't be an issue.

I agree with war was said about the track needing good communication when theres bad weather, there is nothing more annoying then trying to figure out if the track is open or not when they haven't updated anything in 24 hours or more.

Im not looking to have my income from the track if this goes through. I have the other business that has been going fairly well for me that i don't want to give up. I have many many connections in the local community from being a downtown business owner, From landscaping and general contractors to lawyers and local political figures.

I just want a place that would be awesome, no huge compound, a track thats fun for everyone, good facilities and workers that aren't assholes. I would ride way more then i currently do if there was a fun track close by me that was open regularly and maintained the way it should be.

There is no other reason for this then the love of the support. I was laid up in the hospital for 31 days last year from a wreck i had sept 14th. The entire time I was in there i was watching moto videos and reading about the logistics of opening and operating a track. I have found places that will lease and maintain equipment but the pricing of it doesn't seem affordable or economical.

Also, In NY obviously the winter is a killer, other than an indoor track which I'm not interested in at the moment, Is there any source of income to be had for the track during the winter months?

I appreciate everyones input and keep it coming!
Talk to tommy Hurd up at Broome tigoa he runs snowmobile races in the winter , tuff man runs events are popular , paintball facility s don't take a lot off room and a lot off maintenance, winter in ny can be brutal , lease the property out for deer season to the NYC/ / nj crowd , shooting range/ clay pidgins, I grew up in jersey and used to help out at old diamond back ,mowing grass etc for exchange off race fees and a place to ride , snowmobile drags are pretty popular up there two , cross country ski park , if your in with the chamber off commerce maybe you can advertise a weekend packages with hotel trips to the park and maybe a restaurant for dinner , again advertise it in the NYC Get a 15 passenger van and have a few pick up stops in the city if you need any more suggestions pm me , I was that NYC crowd for many years it is a gold mine waiting to be tapped

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