How does ISDE scoring work?

Hman144
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Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 7:18pm
I liked the ISDE Day 1 video on the homepage. Hope every day gets put up there.

But it left me with a question that, frankly, I'm embarrassed I don't already know the answer to.

How does ISDE scoring work? Apparently it's a time score- the trophy team had a score near 4 hours, the Junior team in the two-hour range, and the women in the 1+ range.

Do they average the team times, take the best two or three, or what?

Thanks in advance.
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Derpin' DJ
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9/9/2015 6:09am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 6:10am
Each team gets to drop its worst time for the day. If you don't finish the day, I think you get scored with a 3 hour time. The times are added up, and team with lowest time is the winner. So if you lose 2 people in your team, you're stuffed
Gringoe
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9/9/2015 6:12am
Hman144 wrote:
I liked the ISDE Day 1 video on the homepage. Hope every day gets put up there. But it left me with a question that, frankly...
I liked the ISDE Day 1 video on the homepage. Hope every day gets put up there.

But it left me with a question that, frankly, I'm embarrassed I don't already know the answer to.

How does ISDE scoring work? Apparently it's a time score- the trophy team had a score near 4 hours, the Junior team in the two-hour range, and the women in the 1+ range.

Do they average the team times, take the best two or three, or what?

Thanks in advance.
It is three different competitions. The trophy team (6 riders), the junior team (4 riders) and women's.

In trophy you drop your worst time of each individual test and add all of the rest up. Not sure how junior works but I'm guessing the same way (take 3 drop 1).

Making more sense?
Hman144
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9/9/2015 6:23am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 6:31am
Okay that helps. But there must be more to the story that I'm missing.

World trophy team score, day 1, was 3:42. If the top 2 of 3 count and the times add, that's an average time per rider of 1 hr. and 51 min. The course map said it was 260km, which in my world is 162 miles. So each rider averaged about 87 mph. Nope.

What am I missing?

Also, the Junior and Women's team times were lower, so are they doing a shortened course?

Edit- I was considering a 3-person team based on the video of the team riders leaving together. Per Gringoe, that rider count was wrong. But that just makes the cumulative time and average speed assessment worse. Something is missing or wrong in my formula...

Gringoe
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9/9/2015 6:30am
Hman144 wrote:
Okay that helps. But there must be more to the story that I'm missing. World trophy team score, day 1, was 3:42. If the top 2...
Okay that helps. But there must be more to the story that I'm missing.

World trophy team score, day 1, was 3:42. If the top 2 of 3 count and the times add, that's an average time per rider of 1 hr. and 51 min. The course map said it was 260km, which in my world is 162 miles. So each rider averaged about 87 mph. Nope.

What am I missing?

Also, the Junior and Women's team times were lower, so are they doing a shortened course?

Edit- I was considering a 3-person team based on the video of the team riders leaving together. Per Gringoe, that rider count was wrong. But that just makes the cumulative time and average speed assessment worse. Something is missing or wrong in my formula...

The course might be 260km, but they only RACE for like 1/5th of that distance at different "special tests" throughout the course.

There is only 3 riders times counting in junior as opposed to 5 in trophy.

The Shop

Hman144
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9/9/2015 6:34am
Okay, so only the special test times count in the score- that makes more sense. The rest of it is a trail ride to get to the special tests? Are there time penalties for not maintaining a certain speed average in the connecting sections ala enduro rules?

I think I'm going to see Drew Smith this weekend at a vintage hare scramble event- I'll pick his brain about it.
Tim507
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9/9/2015 6:44am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 6:45am
Time and penalties...the team with the lowest time total in the special tests wins as does the overall winner of each class.

Penalties add time, there is all kinds of penalties.....

One can hour out if your more than an hour behind the class leader.

Medals are awarded on time and percentage of riders within X of the class leader.

Gold - Silver - Bronze

Classes: E1, E2, E3, Junior, Women, Men

Club Teams have 3 riders per team......
montesagold
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9/9/2015 6:46am
Hman144 wrote:
Okay, so only the special test times count in the score- that makes more sense. The rest of it is a trail ride to get to...
Okay, so only the special test times count in the score- that makes more sense. The rest of it is a trail ride to get to the special tests? Are there time penalties for not maintaining a certain speed average in the connecting sections ala enduro rules?

I think I'm going to see Drew Smith this weekend at a vintage hare scramble event- I'll pick his brain about it.
yes, alot of different things that can get you penalaty. It all started about keeping your bike sound for 6 days. As for Kailub Russel, he is know out for the week for this reason, he wrecked out today and couldn't get the bike back today. So much for US winning it, I was sure that this year was our year.
resetjet
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9/9/2015 6:58am
Sipes is kicking some ass. I think he has this offroad thing figured out. Right there with Russell.
Gringoe
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9/9/2015 7:11am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 7:12am
resetjet wrote:
Sipes is kicking some ass. I think he has this offroad thing figured out. Right there with Russell.
He has to beat kailub in something (sprint enduro, gncc, enduro) before I'd say he has it "figured out". But he is definitley getting there
9/9/2015 7:29am
So second - last place in every event we've watched throughout the summer, Even THEY don't have moto figured out? sipes has it figured out, have you ever actually rode on a course with kailub Russell ? He's not exactly slow...
TailSoHard
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9/9/2015 7:29am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 7:30am
Hman144 wrote:
Okay, so only the special test times count in the score- that makes more sense. The rest of it is a trail ride to get to...
Okay, so only the special test times count in the score- that makes more sense. The rest of it is a trail ride to get to the special tests? Are there time penalties for not maintaining a certain speed average in the connecting sections ala enduro rules?

I think I'm going to see Drew Smith this weekend at a vintage hare scramble event- I'll pick his brain about it.
I'm not 100% sure, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong...

I believe they use what some call a "re-start" format. Unlike a traditional enduro where you have to maintain an average speed in order to get to checkpoints on time (not too early, not too late), they use special tests to time everyone. Usually special tests are a few miles of tricky trails, but sometimes it can incorporate a moto track, grass track, some trials riding, speed runs, or even sounds runs (not sure if they do those anymore though...). Then you have a designated amount of time to get to the next special test. Unlike a traditional enduro, I believe you can go as fast as you want to the next test without being penalized for being early, eliminating the need for each rider to keep track of his own timekeeping. If you get there late, there are still penalties, but none for getting there early (although I believe getting there early is still no easy task). At the end of the day, they add up all the teams' special test times and penalties and go on to the next day.

Last time I checked, all the National Enduros are run this way now. A few of our local D14 races are still run in the old traditional enduro style, so it's fun to get a little bit of variety every once in a while, but the re-start format definitely makes for an easier race (mentally at least).
Gringoe
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9/9/2015 7:46am
So second - last place in every event we've watched throughout the summer, Even THEY don't have moto figured out? sipes has it figured out, have...
So second - last place in every event we've watched throughout the summer, Even THEY don't have moto figured out? sipes has it figured out, have you ever actually rode on a course with kailub Russell ? He's not exactly slow...
Yes I have Dennis, and sipes and most of the rest of the trophy and junior team . I know how gnarly he is and how gnarly they all are. Let me rephrase a bit. He has off-road figured out but he doesn't have beating Kailub (the off-road juggernaut) figured out. That's all I meant by it.
resetjet
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9/9/2015 10:04am
Most mx guys turned offroad I have watched or rode with, struggle in the beginning. Then once they "figure it out", they move up to where they should be. They are just scared of the trees mostly......"trees don't move" is the common answer. It looks like sipes could challenge russell if he gets any better.
montesagold
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9/9/2015 10:46am
resetjet wrote:
Sipes is kicking some ass. I think he has this offroad thing figured out. Right there with Russell.
Gringoe wrote:
He has to beat kailub in something (sprint enduro, gncc, enduro) before I'd say he has it "figured out". But he is definitley getting there
I know he and Russel are not competing agaisnt each other this week persay but if your waiting on Sipes to win something to say "he has it figured out" I believe the results of the past few days will represent that.
Coyote
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9/9/2015 11:30am
resetjet wrote:
Sipes is kicking some ass. I think he has this offroad thing figured out. Right there with Russell.
Gringoe wrote:
He has to beat kailub in something (sprint enduro, gncc, enduro) before I'd say he has it "figured out". But he is definitley getting there
I know he and Russel are not competing agaisnt each other this week persay but if your waiting on Sipes to win something to say "he...
I know he and Russel are not competing agaisnt each other this week persay but if your waiting on Sipes to win something to say "he has it figured out" I believe the results of the past few days will represent that.
both sipes and russell are trained by former isde veteran steve hatch...just saying. this just in. Russell out for the rest of six days as he cartwheeled today and hurt his knee and demoed the scoot a bunch. Gotta use all 5 of the rest of our scores now...8 riders are dqed as of today due to some rule infraction..Taylor Robert and David Knight to name a few ...day 3 results are on hold
Tim507
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9/9/2015 11:38am
Gringoe wrote:
He has to beat kailub in something (sprint enduro, gncc, enduro) before I'd say he has it "figured out". But he is definitley getting there
I know he and Russel are not competing agaisnt each other this week persay but if your waiting on Sipes to win something to say "he...
I know he and Russel are not competing agaisnt each other this week persay but if your waiting on Sipes to win something to say "he has it figured out" I believe the results of the past few days will represent that.
Coyote wrote:
both sipes and russell are trained by former isde veteran steve hatch...just saying. this just in. Russell out for the rest of six days as he...
both sipes and russell are trained by former isde veteran steve hatch...just saying. this just in. Russell out for the rest of six days as he cartwheeled today and hurt his knee and demoed the scoot a bunch. Gotta use all 5 of the rest of our scores now...8 riders are dqed as of today due to some rule infraction..Taylor Robert and David Knight to name a few ...day 3 results are on hold
Bummer.....riding the same route for 3 days is torture!!
montesagold
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9/9/2015 11:50am
I know he and Russel are not competing agaisnt each other this week persay but if your waiting on Sipes to win something to say "he...
I know he and Russel are not competing agaisnt each other this week persay but if your waiting on Sipes to win something to say "he has it figured out" I believe the results of the past few days will represent that.
Coyote wrote:
both sipes and russell are trained by former isde veteran steve hatch...just saying. this just in. Russell out for the rest of six days as he...
both sipes and russell are trained by former isde veteran steve hatch...just saying. this just in. Russell out for the rest of six days as he cartwheeled today and hurt his knee and demoed the scoot a bunch. Gotta use all 5 of the rest of our scores now...8 riders are dqed as of today due to some rule infraction..Taylor Robert and David Knight to name a few ...day 3 results are on hold
Tim507 wrote:
Bummer.....riding the same route for 3 days is torture!!
and since this news, there is a big debate what is going on with final scoring for the day. If the times stand, USA will be back in the lead, but with disqualification of three french riders there is rumor that Taylor Robert may be disqualified as well.
ando
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9/9/2015 5:03pm
FIM style enduros run like this:

There are trail sections, special tests and transport sections, all connected to make a day's riding.

Trail stages have a set time (down to the minute) in which you have to complete the section. Arriving early or late incurs a penalty equal to how far from the set time you are. There is a large clock at each control showing the official time. If you make up trail time and arrive early you can stop just before the control, refuel, eat, repair the bike etc, then ride through the control on your minute.

You can't make up lost trail time. At the start of each day, riders are given a time card that specifies the exact minute they need to start and finish each trail section. If you are late into one section by one minute, you get a one minute penalty, and you need to adjust all of your times for the rest of the day by one minute.

Special tests are timed, and can be trails or motocross tracks. They can be incorporated into the middle of a trail section, or standalone.

Penalties are for lost trail time, as well as other infringements e.g. bike not starting on cold start test, illegal repairs etc.

Total time for each rider each day = total trail time + total special test times + penalties.

Riders are ranked by how far in time they are behind the fastest rider.
Coyote
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9/9/2015 5:08pm
ando wrote:
FIM style enduros run like this: There are trail sections, special tests and transport sections, all connected to make a day's riding. Trail stages have a...
FIM style enduros run like this:

There are trail sections, special tests and transport sections, all connected to make a day's riding.

Trail stages have a set time (down to the minute) in which you have to complete the section. Arriving early or late incurs a penalty equal to how far from the set time you are. There is a large clock at each control showing the official time. If you make up trail time and arrive early you can stop just before the control, refuel, eat, repair the bike etc, then ride through the control on your minute.

You can't make up lost trail time. At the start of each day, riders are given a time card that specifies the exact minute they need to start and finish each trail section. If you are late into one section by one minute, you get a one minute penalty, and you need to adjust all of your times for the rest of the day by one minute.

Special tests are timed, and can be trails or motocross tracks. They can be incorporated into the middle of a trail section, or standalone.

Penalties are for lost trail time, as well as other infringements e.g. bike not starting on cold start test, illegal repairs etc.

Total time for each rider each day = total trail time + total special test times + penalties.

Riders are ranked by how far in time they are behind the fastest rider.
as of now all 8 disqualifed riders have filed an appeal and will be allowed to continue to race with an appeals hearing supposedly before Saturday
9/9/2015 7:18pm
Riders don't usually have an issue staying on-time in the transport sections. The race comes down to the special tests. You are ranked by the number of seconds behind the class leader. A good rider will perform most of his maintenance on his/her bike during the day. You usually get to a check 3-10 minutes early. This just leaves tires at the end of the day. You can only change tires at the start or finish.

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