How cheap can a good 125 be made?

Frodad78
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Frodad78
Edited Date/Time 11/16/2015 11:11am
Delete this thread if its been discussed.

If not.

Realistically how cheap could a large manufacturer like KTM make a two stroke 125 for the masses? Supposed they were aircooled, drum brakes, steel framed with outdatedish suspension and modern ergonomics. Remember the RT180, we had 3 of em. I graduated to that bike and learned to ride the shit out of it. You weren't lining up at Unadilla with it but you were blasting through trails and sand pits. Hell maybe the Wheelie Bros can buy some bikes and have a super moto race through Central Park, just don't be a fucking thief.

Hell, sell additional gearing packages and, uprades such as aftermarket parts like any other bike. Have you seen the poor quality of the Chinese bikes? Those things are made out of cheese.

Looks like there is a huge market out there that isn't being tapped into if the bike could be produced cheap enough.


So really how cheap can one be made?

also Whats the price point on the new TTR models, is that ttr motor more expensive than a 125 smoker motor?

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shiftmx_22
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shiftmx_22 2/5/2015 3:08pm
2/5/2015 3:08pm
Not to completely poo-poo your train of thought, but for the most part, thieves will be thieves. There are cheap alternatives if someone really wants to ride. For Joe Blow wanting to rip trails or a sandpit, Craigslist is littered with bikes that run fine for under $1500.

I'm no psychologist, but I don't believe thieves steal bikes simply because they can't afford them. I think there's a lot more too it than dollars.
Cygnus
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Cygnus 2/5/2015 3:12pm
2/5/2015 3:12pm
Mfg's are working on the electric maker I think at this point. Not gonna happen for a cheap Japanese or KTM. The new Honda 230 or what ever is the market you are talking about.
RMT
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RMT 2/5/2015 3:48pm
2/5/2015 3:48pm Edited Date/Time 2/5/2015 3:50pm
Its already being made and sold in the US for $3699. FYI, KTM is not considered a large manufacturer.

bigborefan
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bigborefan 2/5/2015 4:37pm
2/5/2015 4:37pm Edited Date/Time 2/5/2015 4:37pm
That's a Honda bro! ^^^^

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xnationalwrench 2/5/2015 7:50pm
2/5/2015 7:50pm
I heard there is several containers of CZ 125's still floating around in some warehouse LOL J/K
Spartacus
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Spartacus 2/5/2015 7:58pm
2/5/2015 7:58pm
RMT wrote:
Its already being made and sold in the US for $3699. FYI, KTM is not considered a large manufacturer. [img]http://www.cycleworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/2014-SSR-Motorsports-SR250-static-2-590x393.jpg[/img]
Its already being made and sold in the US for $3699. FYI, KTM is not considered a large manufacturer.

I believe that's a Capatin Dunsel kick stand.
Frodad78
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Frodad78 2/6/2015 5:22am
2/6/2015 5:22am
xnationalwrench wrote:
I heard there is several containers of CZ 125's still floating around in some warehouse LOL J/K
haha, wish that were true
Grizz
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Grizz 2/6/2015 5:56am
2/6/2015 5:56am
I can't see anyone doing this with a two stroke when a four stroke is so much better for a casual beginner. Don't have to mix gas, electric starters, more reliable engine, smoother power, etc.
coolhand
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coolhand 2/6/2015 6:32am
2/6/2015 6:32am
Xnationalwrench

I know where there a 3 125 CZs..still in crate.
Steve125
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Steve125 2/6/2015 7:51am
2/6/2015 7:51am Edited Date/Time 2/6/2015 7:52am
The only way a manufacturer can build a "cheap" anything is to use old tooling that made parts for former state of the art bikes they sold. Look at that Yamaha RT 100 and RT 180/200. Those engine cases were around on 70's YZs. Even the Yamaha Blaster quad has what looks to be 1978 YZ100 engine cases on it. I'm not sure any manufacturers have old air cooled castings sitting around anymore.
ratonmacias
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ratonmacias 2/6/2015 8:40am
2/6/2015 8:40am
i would guess redisigns on the bikes is what costs more because the R & D resources invested and the changes needed to produce and assemble the bikes with the updated parts. but i guess a 125 cc or even a 150 cc 2 stroke based on the last bikes that were produced should be less expensive than they are now. suspension components could be of lower performance and they could come with aluminium 7/8" handlebars no need for trick parts
queen of spodes 2/6/2015 10:17am
2/6/2015 10:17am Edited Date/Time 2/6/2015 10:20am
Grizz wrote:
I can't see anyone doing this with a two stroke when a four stroke is so much better for a casual beginner. Don't have to mix...
I can't see anyone doing this with a two stroke when a four stroke is so much better for a casual beginner. Don't have to mix gas, electric starters, more reliable engine, smoother power, etc.
damn.. one sec
Wandell
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Wandell 2/6/2015 10:17am
2/6/2015 10:17am Edited Date/Time 2/6/2015 10:20am
I'd love to see it. Yamaha seems to applying the "mini-bike" rule of thought to the YZ125 and YZ250, which is just keep producing last years bike with an occasional upgrade. They leave the performance upgrades to the aftermarket companies (and their in house line) for the serious racers. I wonder what the sales figures are on them. It's not uncommon to see brand new 1 or 2 year old 250f and 450f bikes on showroom floor but not 125 or 250 two strokes. Could Kawasaki, Suzuki and Honda just start up production again of their last 125 MXers? That would seem to be the easiest thing to do.
I know that my YZ125 and my son's CR125 fit our need perfectly. Plenty of engine, suspension and handling performance for backyard MX tracks and the occasional trip to the local track while not killing my bank account with maintaince and repairs. Personally, we don't need a 40hp 125 that will only run on race fuel and needs a new top end every two hours.
Frodad78
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Frodad78 2/6/2015 10:43am
2/6/2015 10:43am
Interesting, thought on the designs of the old air cooled castings laying around I never thought of that. What prompted this is my search for an entry level bike for my GF. Of course there are tons of 4 strokes to choose from but I'm not interested. I want a bike thats simple to work on and maintain, ala 2 strokes. Isn't that would an entry level bike should be about aside from a machine that won't rip your arms off?
Frodad78
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Frodad78 2/6/2015 10:43am
2/6/2015 10:43am
Outsider wrote:
[img]https://onvoyage.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/A-dead-horse-along-the-road.jpg[/img]
he looks dead but I don't think hes been beaten....

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Outsider
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Outsider 2/6/2015 10:48am
2/6/2015 10:48am
CR230F... dead reliable, electric start, easy to maintain, won't rip your arms off..


I know, it's made by the devil (honda) and it's a four stroke (gasp) Wink
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 2/6/2015 10:57am
2/6/2015 10:57am
Those playbike 4 stroke engines will run for seasons with basic maintenance oil changes etc.
Frodad78
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Frodad78 2/6/2015 11:04am
2/6/2015 11:04am
Outsider wrote:
CR230F... dead reliable, electric start, easy to maintain, won't rip your arms off.. I know, it's made by the devil (honda) and it's a four stroke...
CR230F... dead reliable, electric start, easy to maintain, won't rip your arms off..


I know, it's made by the devil (honda) and it's a four stroke (gasp) Wink
Perfect example. Could a small bore entry level 2 stroke such as the RT be produced for less that what it costs to build the CRF230? Which actually has nothing for an RT 180, My dad owned a CRF230, all we ever heard was that selling the RTs was the biggest mistake he ever made blah blah, oh yeah and selling his BSA Victor.
Outsider
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Outsider 2/6/2015 11:09am
2/6/2015 11:09am
Frodad78 wrote:
Perfect example. Could a small bore entry level 2 stroke such as the RT be produced for less that what it costs to build the CRF230...
Perfect example. Could a small bore entry level 2 stroke such as the RT be produced for less that what it costs to build the CRF230? Which actually has nothing for an RT 180, My dad owned a CRF230, all we ever heard was that selling the RTs was the biggest mistake he ever made blah blah, oh yeah and selling his BSA Victor.
Isn't emissions the issue or am I way off?
Frodad78
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Frodad78 2/6/2015 11:22am
2/6/2015 11:22am
Frodad78 wrote:
Perfect example. Could a small bore entry level 2 stroke such as the RT be produced for less that what it costs to build the CRF230...
Perfect example. Could a small bore entry level 2 stroke such as the RT be produced for less that what it costs to build the CRF230? Which actually has nothing for an RT 180, My dad owned a CRF230, all we ever heard was that selling the RTs was the biggest mistake he ever made blah blah, oh yeah and selling his BSA Victor.
Outsider wrote:
Isn't emissions the issue or am I way off?
I don't know? Would it be an issue in Cali with the green sticker business?
ratonmacias
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ratonmacias 2/6/2015 11:24am
2/6/2015 11:24am
Frodad78 wrote:
Perfect example. Could a small bore entry level 2 stroke such as the RT be produced for less that what it costs to build the CRF230...
Perfect example. Could a small bore entry level 2 stroke such as the RT be produced for less that what it costs to build the CRF230? Which actually has nothing for an RT 180, My dad owned a CRF230, all we ever heard was that selling the RTs was the biggest mistake he ever made blah blah, oh yeah and selling his BSA Victor.
Outsider wrote:
Isn't emissions the issue or am I way off?
probably in californa. here we even have 2strokes on the streets as messenger bikes / pizza delivery mopeds etc.
Outsider
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Outsider 2/6/2015 11:47am
2/6/2015 11:47am
Frodad78 wrote:
I don't know? Would it be an issue in Cali with the green sticker business?
Yup
Grizz
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Grizz 2/6/2015 12:31pm
2/6/2015 12:31pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Those playbike 4 stroke engines will run for seasons with basic maintenance oil changes etc.
Hell those things run for years even without basic maintenance.
Grizz
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Grizz 2/6/2015 12:36pm
2/6/2015 12:36pm
Frodad78 wrote:
Interesting, thought on the designs of the old air cooled castings laying around I never thought of that. What prompted this is my search for an...
Interesting, thought on the designs of the old air cooled castings laying around I never thought of that. What prompted this is my search for an entry level bike for my GF. Of course there are tons of 4 strokes to choose from but I'm not interested. I want a bike thats simple to work on and maintain, ala 2 strokes. Isn't that would an entry level bike should be about aside from a machine that won't rip your arms off?
Playbike 4 stroke is the way to go man. What's the point of riding a two stroke if it's dulled down. Plus I'm being serious with my comment above, they are easy to work on because you literally don't have to work on them. Put gas in and go, especially if it's for a first time rider.
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 2/6/2015 1:20pm
2/6/2015 1:20pm
Here you go. Air cooled 240cc, good quality bike made in Portugal, $5000 MSRP.

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Eddie_E 2/6/2015 1:28pm
2/6/2015 1:28pm Edited Date/Time 2/6/2015 1:32pm
bigborefan wrote:
That's a Honda bro! ^^^^
That's might not be a Honda. I'm guessing it's could also be an SSR or XTR. If somebody wanted a 250F that only makes 15 hp, they are out there.

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