Honda rumor from dirtbike mag

CR250Rider
Profile picture for user CR250Rider
Posts
6706
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Moses Lake, WA US
CR250Rider
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 12:42am
They said Honda may be planning to bring back the CR250, or something cryptic to that effect.
But NOT as a 250. WTF does that mean???

any of you "insiders" care to enlighten us common folk????
|
CR250Rider
Profile picture for user CR250Rider
Posts
6706
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Moses Lake, WA US
CR250Rider 4/26/2011 10:11pm
4/26/2011 10:11pm
a 300 cc smoker based on leftover CRF parts would be fine with me Smile
TriRacer27
Profile picture for user TriRacer27
Posts
5449
Joined
2/7/2009
Location
Dallas, TX US
Fantasy
44th
TriRacer27 4/26/2011 10:19pm
4/26/2011 10:19pm
500??

I imagine they would sell like crazy to all the nostalgic vets out there.
jmar
Profile picture for user jmar
Posts
14159
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
Oklahoma City, OK US
jmar 4/26/2011 10:22pm
4/26/2011 10:22pm
TriRacer27 wrote:
500??

I imagine they would sell like crazy to all the nostalgic vets out there.
Yes they would. Hopefully they would de-tune it down a little bit. Those old 500s were freaking brutes.
Motodude
Profile picture for user Motodude
Posts
4996
Joined
2/2/2008
Location
Sydney AU
Motodude 4/26/2011 10:47pm
4/26/2011 10:47pm
The factory has direct involvement in the GP team this year after leaving the scene in 92, they could be looking at a 300 smoker, although Honda never liked 2 strokes. Might just be bullshit.

The Shop

See All »
GuyB
Profile picture for user GuyB
Posts
35700
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
Fantasy
1215th
GuyB 4/26/2011 10:48pm
4/26/2011 10:48pm
From Dirt Bike? Maybe as an X model?
ando
Profile picture for user ando
Posts
3062
Joined
8/20/2009
Location
Perth AU
ando 4/26/2011 11:57pm
4/26/2011 11:57pm
Given Honda's publicly stated preference for four stroke engines, it's a big IF, but IF they did it I think an X (offroad/enduro) model would make the most sense. I couldn't see them bringing back a two stroke MX bike, but two strokes are alive and well in WEC and other offroad disciplines, and it's something they've never really done before.
FlaNard
Profile picture for user FlaNard
Posts
3614
Joined
10/13/2009
Location
Layton, UT US
FlaNard 4/27/2011 12:44am
4/27/2011 12:44am
Bring out a 300 or 500 and you wont be able to keep them in stores. Id buy a 500 day one.
Mod Killer
Profile picture for user Mod Killer
Posts
1829
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Worldwide, CA US
Mod Killer 4/27/2011 2:39am
4/27/2011 2:39am
i find this next to impossible to believe.

honda treats there love of thumpers like a religion. extremist religion.

no way in hell i see this happening. i'd bet money against it.
rileymx
Profile picture for user rileymx
Posts
943
Joined
10/24/2007
Location
Azores islands PT
rileymx 4/27/2011 3:27am
4/27/2011 3:27am
the future of 2 strokes is all about fuel injection........all over the world there are rules about exhaust fumes, and it keeps getting harder to pass by the 2str engines.......
all major 2str brands are saying that only with FI they can meet future regulations, and they are all working on new engines........
maybe honda has that technology all set and is getting ready to show it first hand..????
Motodude
Profile picture for user Motodude
Posts
4996
Joined
2/2/2008
Location
Sydney AU
Motodude 4/27/2011 3:45am
4/27/2011 3:45am
The new KTM 250 engine is electric smooth, very powerful and almost smokeless...yes it has E start too. Selling by the shipping container full around the globe. Honda, if smart, will want a bit of that action.
motomike137
Profile picture for user motomike137
Posts
6898
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
motomike137 4/27/2011 3:51am
4/27/2011 3:51am
rileymx wrote:
the future of 2 strokes is all about fuel injection........all over the world there are rules about exhaust fumes, and it keeps getting harder to pass...
the future of 2 strokes is all about fuel injection........all over the world there are rules about exhaust fumes, and it keeps getting harder to pass by the 2str engines.......
all major 2str brands are saying that only with FI they can meet future regulations, and they are all working on new engines........
maybe honda has that technology all set and is getting ready to show it first hand..????
The technology already exists... they just have to feel that it is a viable marketing alternative that they can make a profit off of.
motomike137
Profile picture for user motomike137
Posts
6898
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
motomike137 4/27/2011 3:53am
4/27/2011 3:53am
TriRacer27 wrote:
500??

I imagine they would sell like crazy to all the nostalgic vets out there.
Don't know about a 500 but a 50+ hp direct injected 225 lb 300 might just sell to a lot of people besides vets.
Mod Killer
Profile picture for user Mod Killer
Posts
1829
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Worldwide, CA US
Mod Killer 4/27/2011 3:54am
4/27/2011 3:54am Edited Date/Time 4/27/2011 3:57am
Motodude wrote:
The new KTM 250 engine is electric smooth, very powerful and almost smokeless...yes it has E start too. Selling by the shipping container full around the...
The new KTM 250 engine is electric smooth, very powerful and almost smokeless...yes it has E start too. Selling by the shipping container full around the globe. Honda, if smart, will want a bit of that action.
honda is smart.

they know that with 2smokes, they wont sell oil filters, frequent and expensive rebuilds, rebuilds that most riders will have done at their dealerships.

thumpers chew up tires quicker, sprockets, etc etc etc. this all means that the average buyer is back at the honda dealership buying more shit, keeping the dealers doors open.

drug dealers dont make money off of selling u the crack pipe. OEM's dont make the bulk of there profits (if any) off of selling entire units.

honda has known this since the 4t vs 2t wars started half a century ago. its why theyve been stuck on the fourstroke bandwagon ever since.

if they could find a more expensive, inefficient, and complex engine platform to run......they'd spend the money in the marketing dept to spin things in its favor with the public and they'd be pushing that platform.
motomike137
Profile picture for user motomike137
Posts
6898
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
motomike137 4/27/2011 4:05am
4/27/2011 4:05am
Motodude wrote:
The new KTM 250 engine is electric smooth, very powerful and almost smokeless...yes it has E start too. Selling by the shipping container full around the...
The new KTM 250 engine is electric smooth, very powerful and almost smokeless...yes it has E start too. Selling by the shipping container full around the globe. Honda, if smart, will want a bit of that action.
Mod Killer wrote:
honda is smart. they know that with 2smokes, they wont sell oil filters, frequent and expensive rebuilds, rebuilds that most riders will have done at their...
honda is smart.

they know that with 2smokes, they wont sell oil filters, frequent and expensive rebuilds, rebuilds that most riders will have done at their dealerships.

thumpers chew up tires quicker, sprockets, etc etc etc. this all means that the average buyer is back at the honda dealership buying more shit, keeping the dealers doors open.

drug dealers dont make money off of selling u the crack pipe. OEM's dont make the bulk of there profits (if any) off of selling entire units.

honda has known this since the 4t vs 2t wars started half a century ago. its why theyve been stuck on the fourstroke bandwagon ever since.

if they could find a more expensive, inefficient, and complex engine platform to run......they'd spend the money in the marketing dept to spin things in its favor with the public and they'd be pushing that platform.
I agree with you to an extent MK but there comes a point where the product isn't moving off the show room floor any longer because of economic forces or whatever and that can open some eyes in a board room.
johnnyg
Profile picture for user johnnyg
Posts
73
Joined
3/1/2011
Location
LA US
johnnyg 4/27/2011 4:07am
4/27/2011 4:07am
Haha, honda cant even buy off road title. Who cares wat they make though there pit bikes are ok.
rileymx
Profile picture for user rileymx
Posts
943
Joined
10/24/2007
Location
Azores islands PT
rileymx 4/27/2011 4:07am
4/27/2011 4:07am
when i said "all set" i was saying "custumer ready"...........
i don't know about us rules, but in europe its not about marketing at all.......the regulation has varius steps to overcome, and the last one is said to be impossible for 2str ......if not with FI
i remember honda racing the dakar on a 400 2str FI prototype a long time ago, the technology has been there since....its a mather of ecology that is bringging it back , maybe a reason for honda to go all 4str. in the first place...........
motomike137
Profile picture for user motomike137
Posts
6898
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
motomike137 4/27/2011 4:13am
4/27/2011 4:13am Edited Date/Time 4/27/2011 4:14am
rileymx wrote:
when i said "all set" i was saying "custumer ready"........... i don't know about us rules, but in europe its not about marketing at all.......the regulation...
when i said "all set" i was saying "custumer ready"...........
i don't know about us rules, but in europe its not about marketing at all.......the regulation has varius steps to overcome, and the last one is said to be impossible for 2str ......if not with FI
i remember honda racing the dakar on a 400 2str FI prototype a long time ago, the technology has been there since....its a mather of ecology that is bringging it back , maybe a reason for honda to go all 4str. in the first place...........
It was the easiest step at that time but as the sophistication and expense has risen on the 4t's and more developement has gone on in the marine and snowmobile industry with DI on the 2t's you could potentially see a crossroads once again where the lighter simpler more effecient 2t makes a comeback. Go read the snowmobile forums and learn about the 600 and 800 Ski Doo's... they are pretty amazing.
txmxer
Profile picture for user txmxer
Posts
9770
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Weatherford, TX US
txmxer 4/27/2011 4:20am
4/27/2011 4:20am
Honda is a very smart company. They may have a love affair with the 4 stroke, but, I think they like winning more than anything. They also like making the best engines at a given size. If they are looking for a competitive edge and they look at what KTM is doing, I could see them opening up to the possibility that there's something better out there.

As far as Honda loving 4 strokes because they are an after market/repair dream...that doesn't really add up does it? They traditionally build the most reliable 4 strokes on the market. The XR is bullet proof and the the CRF450 doesn't exactly fall apart. Their quality is pretty much the bench mark. Building the best stock product available is something they've done more consistently than any other manufacturer.

Remember back in the '90s they were developing a 2 strokes that met the environmental regulations. They had a street legal 2 stroke 250 in development in the '90s. Never came to be, but, some of the thinking in this thread doesn't align with history.

Pit Row

See All »
Mod Killer
Profile picture for user Mod Killer
Posts
1829
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Worldwide, CA US
Mod Killer 4/27/2011 4:22am
4/27/2011 4:22am
Motodude wrote:
The new KTM 250 engine is electric smooth, very powerful and almost smokeless...yes it has E start too. Selling by the shipping container full around the...
The new KTM 250 engine is electric smooth, very powerful and almost smokeless...yes it has E start too. Selling by the shipping container full around the globe. Honda, if smart, will want a bit of that action.
Mod Killer wrote:
honda is smart. they know that with 2smokes, they wont sell oil filters, frequent and expensive rebuilds, rebuilds that most riders will have done at their...
honda is smart.

they know that with 2smokes, they wont sell oil filters, frequent and expensive rebuilds, rebuilds that most riders will have done at their dealerships.

thumpers chew up tires quicker, sprockets, etc etc etc. this all means that the average buyer is back at the honda dealership buying more shit, keeping the dealers doors open.

drug dealers dont make money off of selling u the crack pipe. OEM's dont make the bulk of there profits (if any) off of selling entire units.

honda has known this since the 4t vs 2t wars started half a century ago. its why theyve been stuck on the fourstroke bandwagon ever since.

if they could find a more expensive, inefficient, and complex engine platform to run......they'd spend the money in the marketing dept to spin things in its favor with the public and they'd be pushing that platform.
motomike137 wrote:
I agree with you to an extent MK but there comes a point where the product isn't moving off the show room floor any longer because...
I agree with you to an extent MK but there comes a point where the product isn't moving off the show room floor any longer because of economic forces or whatever and that can open some eyes in a board room.
yeah, but i still dont think were near that dire situation. when we see OEM's folding up there dirtbike divisions, then the board rooms will take notice.

i would venture to say that it takes two smokers sold to try and come close to the profits made from one thumper. that said, unit sales could drop in half from the 2smoke hey day and they'd still be making the same amount of money and only have to produce have as many bikes. but that is just my guestimate, i'd love to know what the actual ratio is.


tho to honda's credit, im happy to see them back doing the gp's.
motomike137
Profile picture for user motomike137
Posts
6898
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
motomike137 4/27/2011 5:37am
4/27/2011 5:37am Edited Date/Time 4/27/2011 5:37am
Mod Killer wrote:
yeah, but i still dont think were near that dire situation. when we see OEM's folding up there dirtbike divisions, then the board rooms will take...
yeah, but i still dont think were near that dire situation. when we see OEM's folding up there dirtbike divisions, then the board rooms will take notice.

i would venture to say that it takes two smokers sold to try and come close to the profits made from one thumper. that said, unit sales could drop in half from the 2smoke hey day and they'd still be making the same amount of money and only have to produce have as many bikes. but that is just my guestimate, i'd love to know what the actual ratio is.


tho to honda's credit, im happy to see them back doing the gp's.
I don't know about 2 to 1 logic... I would guess there is a little more cost in tooling up and producing up those thumper motors and pretty much everything else is a wash. It is a complicated equation when you factor everything in. I am only commenting because I would like to see both available in a perfect world and I am currently pimping out a new to me 2009 YZ250 after riding thumpers for 10 yearsCool
user760a
Profile picture for user user760a
Posts
1140
Joined
9/15/2008
Location
Shelby, NC US
user760a 4/27/2011 5:53am
4/27/2011 5:53am
I really doubt that Honda is going to do anything at all with two strokes. It would not surprise me to see some intelligent manufacturer from Japan take their last 250 two stroke offering, bump it to 300 and send it off road racing. The two strokes are alive and well in the off road racing scene. I have no idea how people ride them anymore and my last off road ride on a borrowed yz250 was a frustrating mess but a lot of guys love them and haul ass on them
queen of spodes 4/27/2011 6:36am
4/27/2011 6:36am
Mod Killer wrote:
i find this next to impossible to believe. honda treats there love of thumpers like a religion. extremist religion. no way in hell i see this...
i find this next to impossible to believe.

honda treats there love of thumpers like a religion. extremist religion.

no way in hell i see this happening. i'd bet money against it.
agree. This is bull-dookey.
ando
Profile picture for user ando
Posts
3062
Joined
8/20/2009
Location
Perth AU
ando 4/27/2011 6:55am
4/27/2011 6:55am
TriRacer27 wrote:
500??

I imagine they would sell like crazy to all the nostalgic vets out there.
motomike137 wrote:
Don't know about a 500 but a 50+ hp direct injected 225 lb 300 might just sell to a lot of people besides vets.
KTM already has this, it's not injected, and they sell all they can make.
burn1986
Profile picture for user burn1986
Posts
9784
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
Fantasy
3311th
burn1986 4/27/2011 7:10am
4/27/2011 7:10am Edited Date/Time 4/27/2011 7:10am
Was that on the DIrt Bike website?
ATKpilot99
Profile picture for user ATKpilot99
Posts
9820
Joined
4/13/2010
Location
Lake Geneva, WI US
ATKpilot99 4/27/2011 7:12am
4/27/2011 7:12am Edited Date/Time 4/27/2011 7:13am
burn1986 wrote:
Was that on the DIrt Bike website?
It's in the May issue. There's an article on the history of the CR 250 and they mention it at the end.
burn1986
Profile picture for user burn1986
Posts
9784
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
Fantasy
3311th
burn1986 4/27/2011 7:34am
4/27/2011 7:34am
I found out its dirtbikemagazine.com instead of dirtbikemag.com.
Deetsmx
Profile picture for user Deetsmx
Posts
880
Joined
4/21/2008
Location
Visalia, CA US
Deetsmx 4/27/2011 7:42am
4/27/2011 7:42am
I mentioned this a few months back after hearing it from a very credible source. It's supposed to be an off road model, probably to give ktm some comp in that department.
LowPsi
Profile picture for user LowPsi
Posts
183
Joined
1/19/2010
Location
Costa Mesa, CA US
LowPsi 4/27/2011 7:50am
4/27/2011 7:50am
johnnyg wrote:
Haha, honda cant even buy off road title. Who cares wat they make though there pit bikes are ok.
Hey johnnyg ever heard of:

Mika Ahola 4 time World Enduro Champion on Honda 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010


Toni Bou 4 time World Trials Champion 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010
wardy
Profile picture for user wardy
Posts
1765
Joined
3/31/2008
Location
US
wardy 4/27/2011 7:53am
4/27/2011 7:53am
yea when pigs fly.

i would buy three. two for the kid and one for me if it happened. we are racing 07 125's now, and well going into our second year and they are working well.

but honda two stroke. LOL you want a new one.

buy a service honda.

that is all.
Sherwood
Profile picture for user Sherwood
Posts
3690
Joined
5/12/2010
Location
US
Sherwood 4/27/2011 8:07am
4/27/2011 8:07am
Won't happen. Just like the AMA won't sack up and tell the big 4 where to stick it.

Post a reply to: Honda rumor from dirtbike mag