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2-strokes aren't dead overall, but in Professional MX/SX they are.
As far back at the 70s (for sure), and probably the 60s, the FIM was THE sanctioning body worldwide. From the time 2-strokes starting pounding out wins against the antiquated 4-strokes of the time, the FIM rulebook adjusted equipment standards to allow basically double the displacement for 4Ts when racing 2Ts.
Was it justified? Well into the 90s, we raced at a 50% displacement disadvantage on flat-tracks and road-race circuits and still killed the 4Ts, even when they had phenominal amounts of money invested in horsepower.
It took Yamaha's effort years later to give any of the manufacturers the incentive to build something other than a rolling embarrasment on the track. Honda, while painfully dedicated to 4T technology, did not put us in the position we are in today. It was only when Yamaha proved it could be done under the available rule-book that the gold-rush began.
DC and his predecessors did not come up with the 2 vs 4 stroke formula. It was adopted from a time half a century ago and old habits are hard to break.
The Shop
Yeah, that JUST HAPPENED!
Question : ......How can something be considered "Dead"........but when you line the bikes up CC for CC......the 2 strokes fucking dominate the 4 stroke in just about every category known to man?
The 4 strokes have a major disadvantage when comparing the same sized motor......But yet we are forced to run 2 strokes with 1/2 of the displacement against them.
It's all a fucking monopoly of the big 4! they force you to ride their more expensive 4 strokes so they can keep the money coming in!
Seriously.......WHY THE FUCK aren't the 300-350cc 2 strokes allowed to race against the 450 4 strokes? And WHY THE FUCK can't it be legal to race a 150cc 2 stroke in the lites class?
They are forcing these more expensive 4 strokes down our throats weather we like it or not. If you want to be competitive at all out on a track....you are forced to run a 4 stroke , or get your ass handed to you!
Why was it when the 4 strokes first came out.......we let them have all those extra CC's to keep up with the 2 strokes.......The favor is not being returned when a huge amount of people want to race the 2 strokes again?
There is so much bullshit going on in this whole debate it's fucking ridiculous!
there is no better proof that "racing is marketing" and ive been thinking about this recently, up to earlier on today i thought to myself about this, and coincidentally enough i end up here to state this....
If the manufacturers had their pros out there on two strokes, the general public would still be on them, a tleast much more so than they are now, heck, us weekend warriors and local pros alike for some reason have this thing about running something as close to what the pros run, i'm guilty of it too, i havent had a 2 stroke since 2005, but more and more, i'm seeing no reason why my next bike shouldnt be a nice 2011 KTM 250SX, i'm over all the 4 stroke hype bs myself..
I really admire their perseverance with the US market, one has to say it wasn't easy for KTM to make a break through in the US, but they kept trying, they kept listening to feedback and they kept improving, and now they are a model to be followed in my opinion..
Everyone knows a 500 is not going to dominate and it's not likely a 250 is going to dominate so you have to figure the fastest sized 2-stroke is probably somewhere between 250 and 500.. There aren't too many production bikes out there with that size at the moment so take down the stupid size limits and let the manufacturers innovate.
I would like to see them go back to a 125 class for the small bikes and make the other class an open class. The top riders will probably be able to win on either technology and that would give the manufacturer the freedom to pay their top riders to ride that manufacturers preferred choice. You might see KTM with a rider on both a 300 2-stroke and a rider on a 350 4-stroke some day where many of the others might pay their riders to ride their 4-stroke only. Choices.
Pretty much everywhere we went we were racing 250s against 500 4T singles. Our Pros who were riding 350cc 2T and big (500cc plus) 4-strokes had to race an "open" or GP class.
Point is Ride whatever you like. if you wanna race other 2 strokes than find a 2 stroke national to attend.
Pit Row
Few seem to recognize that everyone stepped up a class, without realizing it. There is talk about raising the cc limit of the 2's to compete. What was once a 125cc class is now a 250cc class. What was once a 250cc class is now, in effect, the old Open class. But people complain that there needs to be a solution to the "bikes being too fast" problem, by get this, "limiting suspension travel".
Seems the solution is so obvious that it's painful. Bring back a 125 class, a 250 class, and an Open class for those big cc monsters that let you jump any gap with a twist of the wrist.
Then there are the fools who say " it would be dangerous trying to jump some of those gaps on a 125" . Well, make the gaps smaller, duh.
Back in the 80's and 90's I don't remember anyone saying that 125's just weren't fast enough. We had a lot of pros going blazing fast on them. It's just that they were forced to compete in the next class up, unwillingly, and unknowingly.
CC to CC, three classes. That's the only logical answer. But there's no room for logic with the AMA, the OEM's, DC and The Problem.
Mine runs great. Somebody should've told me it was dead!
Make a 250cc and open class the premire classes. Equal CC, any stroke in the 250 class..production rule, and current fuel/sound restrictions in place. Maybe put a points system in place for this class to force riders to move up, to keep them from being a "career" rider in this class
In the open class, allow any CC, 2 or 4 stroke, and allow works bikes...Make this class the pinnacle. The biggest purse, exotic bikes etc. Only have sound/fuel restrictions. Let the riders choose what they want to ride.
This senario works well for the outdoors, but i dont think it would for supercross. Therefore I could see it going back to a 125 E/W support class, and then an open class for the main supercross class.
Off-road guys were running British 500 4Ts in the "premier" class against CZ 250s within the rule-book.
I'm not calling you out. I'd like to see an FIM book from those days.
If your clipping is right, we were getting cheated at a lot of races, unless the 360 thing was exclusive to MX.
Four strokes came about when the economy was healthy. Look back, everything was getting bigger, cars, houses, and the motorcycle manufactures were pushing 4-strokes down the sheep's throught. Why? probably the same reason GM was producing such huge gas guzzling SUV's: to make more money!
MX has now practically turned into a rich man's sport like golfing. Look were Stewart came from. I doubt a low income family of his now days could make racing ends meet.
I commend KTM, and Yamaha for supporting the motocross community buy producing 2-strokes. I've never owned a KTM, but I don't think i'll ride anything but these two brands from now on.
Post a reply to: Hey DC! Now about them 2-strokes