Helmet help

ConnorD11
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277
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Austin, TX US
12/27/2015 12:07pm Edited Date/Time 1/10/2016 10:08am
I've been wearing a 6D for two years now and love it. its a little heavy compared to other helmets ive looked at recently, like the just1 or airoh. my question is
Should I spend the $760 on a 6D carbon that weighs 1400 Grams, which is known as the safest helmet
or should i look somewhere else. Safety and Weight are my two biggest concerns. Thanks for the help in advance.
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moto455va
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Smithfield, VA US
12/27/2015 12:11pm
Buy an HJC, only $49.99

thank me later
KTMShane699
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Location
Colchester, CT US
12/27/2015 12:14pm
ConnorD11 wrote:
I've been wearing a 6D for two years now and love it. its a little heavy compared to other helmets ive looked at recently, like the...
I've been wearing a 6D for two years now and love it. its a little heavy compared to other helmets ive looked at recently, like the just1 or airoh. my question is
Should I spend the $760 on a 6D carbon that weighs 1400 Grams, which is known as the safest helmet
or should i look somewhere else. Safety and Weight are my two biggest concerns. Thanks for the help in advance.
I'm not even sure where to begin...but start with what fits you the best. If your 6D fits well, stick with it. It's a great helmet. I recently switched from 6D to a Bell Moto 9 carbon flex and like the feel of it. I haven't ridden yet with it. How it fits on your head is the best indicator of what to buy.

Shane
ConnorD11
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12/27/2015 12:15pm
moto455va wrote:
Buy an HJC, only $49.99

thank me later
I should Clarify, Safety is my #1 concern and weight is my #2.
Starcrossed
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New Bedford, MA US
12/27/2015 12:18pm Edited Date/Time 12/27/2015 12:24pm
Finding an Airoh in the U.S. might present a bit of a challenge, but you might want to check out the new Leatt. Fit might be the most critical element where helmet safety is concerned, among the top brands, so def. find something that fits you well. KTMShane might have some good advice for you, as he has done some recent research. Think he ended up going with the Bell moto 9 flex.

Edit: When I was typing this response the only one that was up was the post about the HJC.

The Shop

Motofinne
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FI
12/27/2015 4:34pm
Get a EU Airoh(i think the US models are heavier) if you want an light helmet, they are around 900-950 grams! But i think the fitment is the most important part when it comes to buying a new helmet.
kkawboy14
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TX US
12/27/2015 4:49pm Edited Date/Time 12/27/2015 5:10pm
Don't goof around, get a cool helmet, Troy Lee Designs
KTMShane699
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12/27/2015 6:13pm
Finding an Airoh in the U.S. might present a bit of a challenge, but you might want to check out the new Leatt. Fit might be...
Finding an Airoh in the U.S. might present a bit of a challenge, but you might want to check out the new Leatt. Fit might be the most critical element where helmet safety is concerned, among the top brands, so def. find something that fits you well. KTMShane might have some good advice for you, as he has done some recent research. Think he ended up going with the Bell moto 9 flex.

Edit: When I was typing this response the only one that was up was the post about the HJC.
Thanks Matt. I did decide on the Moto 9 Carbon Flex after talking to some people and doing some research. I'm in no way disappointed with my 6D helmet. It performed flawlessly in the couple of crashes I've had in it (one of them being significant as most people here know the history of). The fit is great for me, the weight doesn't bother me. And 6D customer service is second to none. Between crash replacement and their "inspect and rebuild if possible" service, there isn't much to dislike about the product or the company.

So...why did I switch to Bell helmets? Back when I was racing, Bell was pretty much the only helmet I ever wore. They fit well, worked for me and I never had a complaint. Fast forward to current technology when things with helmets are finally progressing and you start seeing some differences. Having worn 6D (who really pushed helmet revolution forward), it was interesting to see Bell's approach to the same problem. After doing my homework and talking to a variety of people, negative opinions were far and few. That gave me the confidence to try something new out. I also work in a shop part time, and sometimes I like to try different products that appeal to me. This happened to be one of them. And in case anyone is wondering, yes, I had to pay for a helmet just like everyone else does. Consider it a science experiment and product test at my personal expense. If I didn't have some belief in the product, I wouldn't have put my own dollars up.

After receiving my helmet, I don't feel I made a bad decision. The fit certainly feels like the Bell's I used to wear, but updated and with different technology you can see and feel (as a paramedic, I think Bell is top notch in their magnetic cheek pads...significantly above any other system I've seen). Time will tell how I feel after I've been able to log some time with the product. I don't forsee any issues. We have to get through winter here in New England first, I have to get my helmet back from Hellion Designs and lastly I have to put some more muscle on my leg after this years injury. Then the jury will return a final verdict. For now, my magic 8-ball says it looks promising.

Shane
ConnorD11
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Austin, TX US
12/27/2015 7:14pm
Thanks for the tips. I found the same helmet I have now for $398 and in a cool color, so I went with that. It fits me well.
Lucky13FIST
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Chandler, AZ US
12/27/2015 10:45pm
Shoes uses the same shock absorber technology as the 6D. Arai would be my 2nd choice for a helmet. Honestly as long as it is DOT/Snell approved which most are the weight differences are just grams. If weight is a big deal go to the gym and put a 25 lb plate on your forehead and work that neck out. Now thats safety first my friend lol.
VxeR
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IT
12/31/2015 2:03pm
Airoh, you can't go wrong with that. Light as a feather.
Olson
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12/31/2015 2:09pm
I don't think the EU sticker on Airoh is legal in the states. Therefore the US version is heavier. One of the reasons GP riders wore Airoh a long time before Rockstar picked them up. I use Bell and wont switch to any other manufacturer. Have also been wearing a Shoei VFX-W for a while but like the Bell helmet a lot more, no one can beat Bells liner and blocking out sound.
VxeR
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12/31/2015 2:16pm
Olson wrote:
I don't think the EU sticker on Airoh is legal in the states. Therefore the US version is heavier. One of the reasons GP riders wore...
I don't think the EU sticker on Airoh is legal in the states. Therefore the US version is heavier. One of the reasons GP riders wore Airoh a long time before Rockstar picked them up. I use Bell and wont switch to any other manufacturer. Have also been wearing a Shoei VFX-W for a while but like the Bell helmet a lot more, no one can beat Bells liner and blocking out sound.
What do you mean? Sorry European here
kaptkaos
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Miami, FL US
12/31/2015 9:26pm
I cant find a Bell Moto anywhere in town that I can try on. I have tried on the 6D and Leatt, and they are both very nice helmets. 6D fit much better, Leatt was lighter and way better priced. Right now I am leaning towards the Leatt but would love to try on a Bell just nobody carries Bell in Miami.
Olson
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1/1/2016 3:39am
kaptkaos wrote:
I cant find a Bell Moto anywhere in town that I can try on. I have tried on the 6D and Leatt, and they are both...
I cant find a Bell Moto anywhere in town that I can try on. I have tried on the 6D and Leatt, and they are both very nice helmets. 6D fit much better, Leatt was lighter and way better priced. Right now I am leaning towards the Leatt but would love to try on a Bell just nobody carries Bell in Miami.
Call Moto XB in Orlando. They sell a ton of Bell Helmets. The two guys working there race supermoto all over Florida. Maybe they can arrange something. Very friendy guys.
Olson
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1/1/2016 3:45am
Olson wrote:
I don't think the EU sticker on Airoh is legal in the states. Therefore the US version is heavier. One of the reasons GP riders wore...
I don't think the EU sticker on Airoh is legal in the states. Therefore the US version is heavier. One of the reasons GP riders wore Airoh a long time before Rockstar picked them up. I use Bell and wont switch to any other manufacturer. Have also been wearing a Shoei VFX-W for a while but like the Bell helmet a lot more, no one can beat Bells liner and blocking out sound.
VxeR wrote:
What do you mean? Sorry European here
Different standards to approve helmets. DOT in the states and Snell, ECE in Europe. From what I've heard the lighter European version of Airoh do not make the DOT requirements therefore it's heavier.
usafwx
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Trussville, AL US
1/1/2016 6:23am
6D hands down. After a massive crash that should of included a concussion to my injury list, my 6D proved to be worth every penny, customer for life.
Indy mxer
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Linton, IN US
1/1/2016 7:32am
I bought a 6D carbon last summer after wearing Bell and Shoei. I love the way it fits my head.
Very comfortable and quality seems to be top notch. Imo it's the safest helmet out there.
The Shoei and Bell were very good helmets as well. But I feel the technology in the 6D is superior to the rest.
50dippin
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Los Angeles, CA US
1/1/2016 9:47am
Shoes uses the same shock absorber technology as the 6D. Arai would be my 2nd choice for a helmet. Honestly as long as it is DOT/Snell...
Shoes uses the same shock absorber technology as the 6D. Arai would be my 2nd choice for a helmet. Honestly as long as it is DOT/Snell approved which most are the weight differences are just grams. If weight is a big deal go to the gym and put a 25 lb plate on your forehead and work that neck out. Now thats safety first my friend lol.
weight difference is pounds between the 6d and airoh, and force=mass x acceleration. The heavier helmets will have exponentially more force when you crash. I doubt you have ever worn a light helmet like the airoh, suomy or new leatt. The comfort difference is huge, every time you take a hard landing you will be glad not to have an extra pound on your head.
bvm111
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Las Vegas, NV US
1/1/2016 9:58am
I have tested most helmets... I love shoei and arai, that being said after a self imposed 6 month break from riding I am buying a 6D Carbon before I ride at the end of this month!
KTMShane699
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1/1/2016 11:49am Edited Date/Time 1/1/2016 11:54am
50dippin wrote:
weight difference is pounds between the 6d and airoh, and force=mass x acceleration. The heavier helmets will have exponentially more force when you crash. I doubt...
weight difference is pounds between the 6d and airoh, and force=mass x acceleration. The heavier helmets will have exponentially more force when you crash. I doubt you have ever worn a light helmet like the airoh, suomy or new leatt. The comfort difference is huge, every time you take a hard landing you will be glad not to have an extra pound on your head.
You are correct that force is mass x acceleration (squared). But in a rider that weighs 175 pounds with gear on, a pound in a helmet isn't going to matter. It's the mass of projectile (rider), not the mass of the helmet.

So while I agree that mass is huge, its relevance in the matter of a crash with regard to the weight savings of a helmet is negligible. I could take a giant poop before I get on the bike and achieve the same result.

Making a helmet decision on weight alone is only looking at a small fraction of the picture of what should be considered.

And let's not forget that the single biggest factor in force isn't mass, it's acceleration since that increases exponentially.

Shane
keith101
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1/1/2016 3:51pm
50dippin wrote:
weight difference is pounds between the 6d and airoh, and force=mass x acceleration. The heavier helmets will have exponentially more force when you crash. I doubt...
weight difference is pounds between the 6d and airoh, and force=mass x acceleration. The heavier helmets will have exponentially more force when you crash. I doubt you have ever worn a light helmet like the airoh, suomy or new leatt. The comfort difference is huge, every time you take a hard landing you will be glad not to have an extra pound on your head.
You are correct that force is mass x acceleration (squared). But in a rider that weighs 175 pounds with gear on, a pound in a helmet...
You are correct that force is mass x acceleration (squared). But in a rider that weighs 175 pounds with gear on, a pound in a helmet isn't going to matter. It's the mass of projectile (rider), not the mass of the helmet.

So while I agree that mass is huge, its relevance in the matter of a crash with regard to the weight savings of a helmet is negligible. I could take a giant poop before I get on the bike and achieve the same result.

Making a helmet decision on weight alone is only looking at a small fraction of the picture of what should be considered.

And let's not forget that the single biggest factor in force isn't mass, it's acceleration since that increases exponentially.

Shane
Depends on type of crash. Lawn dart and your comment may hold some merit, but a whiplash type impact will be dramatically different.

Here's a test for you. Next time you are at your shop, try on your new Bell Flex or a 6D....Swing your head around like a lead guitarist in a rock band, then put on an Airoh or new Leatt Carbon. Report back your results.

Bottom line: you have no business talking about helmets that you've never used, much less ever put on your head bro.

On a side note: I weighed my Airoh's...EU 2lbs 3oz....US 2lb 11oz.

When you start testing helmets for a living, only then should you open your mouth regarding mass and acceleration data. Geez.
KTMShane699
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1/1/2016 4:29pm Edited Date/Time 1/1/2016 5:09pm
keith101 wrote:
Depends on type of crash. Lawn dart and your comment may hold some merit, but a whiplash type impact will be dramatically different. Here's a test...
Depends on type of crash. Lawn dart and your comment may hold some merit, but a whiplash type impact will be dramatically different.

Here's a test for you. Next time you are at your shop, try on your new Bell Flex or a 6D....Swing your head around like a lead guitarist in a rock band, then put on an Airoh or new Leatt Carbon. Report back your results.

Bottom line: you have no business talking about helmets that you've never used, much less ever put on your head bro.

On a side note: I weighed my Airoh's...EU 2lbs 3oz....US 2lb 11oz.

When you start testing helmets for a living, only then should you open your mouth regarding mass and acceleration data. Geez.
I'll play. Unless you're a developing child, the musculature of your neck is more than adequate to secure a mass of three pounds safely. If your neck is so weak that it can't secure that mass while riding, you have no business being on a motorcycle period. Kids are the exception as their musculature is still in development.

Weight in youth helmets is more significant for the fact that kids develop disproportionately with regard to the ratio of the size (and weight) of their head to their body. Kids typically fall head first for that reason. They're unable to control the bowling ball on their head, and they're top heavy.

A whiplash style injury usually occurs when struck from behind, or striking an object from behind and having no support (the headrest in your vehicle is designed to help prevent this very injury, but most people don't set them correctly). A true whiplash style injury would be a rare occurance in riding. Not impossible, but far from a regular event. In fact, the biggest issue with whiplash isn't even so much the muscular strain as it is the coup/contrecoup injury that's caused by the sudden change of direction in the head causing a secondary collision within the cranial vault. No helmet will ever prevent that from happening. And that's the true problem with the injury you're so concerned with.

Would you like to continue to debate the kinematics of trauma and injuries and how they relate? We can carry on if you'd like.

As for trying on a new 6D or Bell Helmet next time I'm at work, there's no need. I own both. I've had my head inside the new Leatt helmet. I've had my head inside quite a few different helmets over the years. Some simply getting to play with at work and others getting to ride in them. My experience allows me to share some thoughts on various products.

I'm guessing since I can't discuss mass and acceleration data, you must be a helmet tester since you feel so obligated to discuss it?

Regardless of its relation to helmet data, the science and math is the force is equal to mass times acceleration squared. The exponential increase still comes from acceleration (or speed in this case), and not from the mass. That's simple science and physics. Maybe even eighth grade level stuff?

And to be clear, I never discussed data. Data would be test results and actual tests. I was discussing science. Surely, you'd know the difference.

Have a great night,
Shane
keith101
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AU
1/10/2016 10:08am Edited Date/Time 1/10/2016 10:12am
keith101 wrote:
Depends on type of crash. Lawn dart and your comment may hold some merit, but a whiplash type impact will be dramatically different. Here's a test...
Depends on type of crash. Lawn dart and your comment may hold some merit, but a whiplash type impact will be dramatically different.

Here's a test for you. Next time you are at your shop, try on your new Bell Flex or a 6D....Swing your head around like a lead guitarist in a rock band, then put on an Airoh or new Leatt Carbon. Report back your results.

Bottom line: you have no business talking about helmets that you've never used, much less ever put on your head bro.

On a side note: I weighed my Airoh's...EU 2lbs 3oz....US 2lb 11oz.

When you start testing helmets for a living, only then should you open your mouth regarding mass and acceleration data. Geez.
I'll play. Unless you're a developing child, the musculature of your neck is more than adequate to secure a mass of three pounds safely. If your...
I'll play. Unless you're a developing child, the musculature of your neck is more than adequate to secure a mass of three pounds safely. If your neck is so weak that it can't secure that mass while riding, you have no business being on a motorcycle period. Kids are the exception as their musculature is still in development.

Weight in youth helmets is more significant for the fact that kids develop disproportionately with regard to the ratio of the size (and weight) of their head to their body. Kids typically fall head first for that reason. They're unable to control the bowling ball on their head, and they're top heavy.

A whiplash style injury usually occurs when struck from behind, or striking an object from behind and having no support (the headrest in your vehicle is designed to help prevent this very injury, but most people don't set them correctly). A true whiplash style injury would be a rare occurance in riding. Not impossible, but far from a regular event. In fact, the biggest issue with whiplash isn't even so much the muscular strain as it is the coup/contrecoup injury that's caused by the sudden change of direction in the head causing a secondary collision within the cranial vault. No helmet will ever prevent that from happening. And that's the true problem with the injury you're so concerned with.

Would you like to continue to debate the kinematics of trauma and injuries and how they relate? We can carry on if you'd like.

As for trying on a new 6D or Bell Helmet next time I'm at work, there's no need. I own both. I've had my head inside the new Leatt helmet. I've had my head inside quite a few different helmets over the years. Some simply getting to play with at work and others getting to ride in them. My experience allows me to share some thoughts on various products.

I'm guessing since I can't discuss mass and acceleration data, you must be a helmet tester since you feel so obligated to discuss it?

Regardless of its relation to helmet data, the science and math is the force is equal to mass times acceleration squared. The exponential increase still comes from acceleration (or speed in this case), and not from the mass. That's simple science and physics. Maybe even eighth grade level stuff?

And to be clear, I never discussed data. Data would be test results and actual tests. I was discussing science. Surely, you'd know the difference.

Have a great night,
Shane
Dear Shane,

Watch the video of JS's crash last night the whiplash effect. If you watch it slowed down, you can probably make some observations regarding helmet weight.

http://motocross.transworld.net/videos/2016-anaheim-one-race-highlights/

Have a great day.

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