Helmet Cam not allowed

ga_pike
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Edited Date/Time 6/1/2015 3:21pm
After reading through pit bits, the Muscle Milk Honda team was not allowed to run it's sponsor's cameras? Can they really do that? Sharing video publically is one thing if GoPro owns the broadcast rights but not permitting them to even run them? That's like Monster not allowing Dungey or Stewart to have Red Bull cans on stage.
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Allracing
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3/18/2013 8:49am
I know it's been an issue in the past, RCH a couple years ago wasn't allowed to run their cameras because it wasn't GoPro.
Underdog999
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3/18/2013 10:14am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2013 10:15am
Hmmm. ... this is kind of weird when you take a deep look at it.

Should everyone ride just Kawis because they are the main sponsor?

Should everyone only use Amsoil?

Should everyone only drink Monster while they are there?

You get my point, the list is endless.

I wonder how they get away with this? I love GoPro, but don't really like this idea that other's can't use their cameras while competing.
ga_pike
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3/18/2013 10:22am
Exactly my point Underdog. Just because the series is sponsored shouldn't mean you can't use a competitive product. Name any other sponsor of SX that has the ability to limit what the competition uses? Monster, Rockstar, Red Bull, Muscle Milk have all been on the podium. I think it's chickenshit of GoPro to do this and frankly, it makes me less interested in their product because the only reason to keep a competitor out is because the competition has a superior product. If the product wasn't better, then by all means being it and we'll beat it heads up.

The Shop

mx757
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3/18/2013 10:26am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2013 10:42am
I think the point is that it is unauthorized footage at that point. After seeing the article, I am surprised that they made them take them off. Goofy as hell. The worst part of it is, the replay is nowhere near the pic quality of the gopro, and really shouldnt be an issue.
newmann
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3/18/2013 10:37am
No different than them not allowing Guy B to shoot video in the pits during the day. His interviews have still photos attached don't they? Jim Holley has to condense his video down to 2 minutes or less after the races doesn't he? Holley and Weege got kicked the hell out with the internet show a few years back. No Rockstar or Red Bull samples allowed in the pits. No t-shirt sales from the privateers who struggle to make it to the next race. No stickers allowed to be handed out in the pits either from any of the teams, magazines or vendors. Of course I heard that goes back to the stadium and fines they would hand down to anyone whose stickers got plastered about the place....
Titan1
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3/18/2013 10:38am
What camera sponsor does Honda have?

Doesn't the "unauthorized" footage only come into play if the teams try and publish it and/or make money off it? If they simply use it for "personal/team use" how is that any different than if they've got a team member with a video camera up in the VIP area filming the riders during practice/heats/main?
Underdog999
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3/18/2013 10:38am
Then the other cams need to get their act together and get their footage authorized.

It's probably all about $$$, and GoPro has the big $$$ right now to spend.
Choppy
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3/18/2013 10:44am
How is running a camera any different than running a different gear/helmet?
SEE ARE125
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3/18/2013 10:45am
I think this monopoly BS is killing the sport. Why would any outside sponsors want to join in on our sport if another company already has a chokehold on the market? I remember free Rockstar/RedBull/Monster samples being given out in the pits, but Monster shut that down real quick. I imagine the conversation was something along the lines of, "If you want Monster to continue to sponsor the SX series, you're going to have to stop Rockstar and other energy drink manufacturers from promoting their product at a Monster sponsored event." Now it looks like GoPro is doing the same with helmet cameras. What a crock. The more companies involved with sponsorship the better off it is for everyone, especially the riders who risk their lives week in week out. The only people who wouldn't benefit are those shitty companies who monopolize the market and keep anyone else on the outside from joining in. I love this sport, but I seriously question Feld/AMA's business sense when it comes to decisions like this. If they would've called Monster's bluff, they would've seen that Monster wasn't going to go anywhere. Why would they? So they could give up this demographic to Rockstar or RedBull? I doubt they would want that to happen.
newmann
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3/18/2013 10:49am
Remember Honda being told they had to run the Toyota logo on their bikes since Toyota sponsored the series?
500guy
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3/18/2013 10:50am
Think of it on the Persons side who actually put up the money to get exclusive.

If I pay for exclusive rights and another company shows up , I want something done about it.

The people who try to piggy back their way in are ruining it , it's all about ownership and if any one of us were having our ownership infringed on we would stand up to it.
DC
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3/18/2013 10:51am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2013 10:54am
Let me take a crack at this...

The challenge is the fact that GoPro likely had an exclusive helmet-cam/POV contract with the series that does not allow any other cameras to be displayed on the athletes, let alone the footage used. It has nothing to do with the quality of the product, but a pre-existing contract with obligations to the promoter. The teams can display whatever logos they want on the side of the shrouds, tanks, jerseys, trucks, or pits, be it a video camera logo (but not the camera itself) or an energy drink or goggles, oil, casual wear, whatever.

But on the track, the series has deals in place and you won't see Rockstar or Red Bull or any other energy drink anywhere but on the riders clothes or on the side of the bikes. The same goes for outdoors, and the same goes for GPs, I am guessing. Riders can wear stickers on their bikes or helmets, or in their pits and on the podium, but you won't see them anywhere else on or around the track.

Helmet cams are rapidly evolving products that are growing in popularity and applications, but that wasn't the case a few years again when GoPro was the first to really get into the sport. They are not "necessary," so a rider wearing one on his helmet is different than using a different oil than the series sponsor or riding a different bike. Maybe that will change as the products usage evolves, but they still can't be worn on helmets until the current contract is finished.

And before you throw the NASCAR model out at this, all of those cameras inside cars are series-related, not just what the teams want to wear. And NASCAR is very strict about the usage.

The funny thing about all of this is that I used to wear the helmet cam when I was the pit reporter on TV because no actual racer would wear the thing (it was much heavier and required a back pack for the batteries and recorder). Now they are so small and light, and the ability to post online or on Facebook or wherever has so completely changed, everyone wants to wear one.

DC
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Choppy
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3/18/2013 10:54am
So they can bolt it onto the bike, but not the helmet?
Underdog999
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3/18/2013 11:04am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2013 11:05am
DC wrote:
Let me take a crack at this... The challenge is the fact that GoPro likely had an exclusive helmet-cam/POV contract with the series that does not...
Let me take a crack at this...

The challenge is the fact that GoPro likely had an exclusive helmet-cam/POV contract with the series that does not allow any other cameras to be displayed on the athletes, let alone the footage used. It has nothing to do with the quality of the product, but a pre-existing contract with obligations to the promoter. The teams can display whatever logos they want on the side of the shrouds, tanks, jerseys, trucks, or pits, be it a video camera logo (but not the camera itself) or an energy drink or goggles, oil, casual wear, whatever.

But on the track, the series has deals in place and you won't see Rockstar or Red Bull or any other energy drink anywhere but on the riders clothes or on the side of the bikes. The same goes for outdoors, and the same goes for GPs, I am guessing. Riders can wear stickers on their bikes or helmets, or in their pits and on the podium, but you won't see them anywhere else on or around the track.

Helmet cams are rapidly evolving products that are growing in popularity and applications, but that wasn't the case a few years again when GoPro was the first to really get into the sport. They are not "necessary," so a rider wearing one on his helmet is different than using a different oil than the series sponsor or riding a different bike. Maybe that will change as the products usage evolves, but they still can't be worn on helmets until the current contract is finished.

And before you throw the NASCAR model out at this, all of those cameras inside cars are series-related, not just what the teams want to wear. And NASCAR is very strict about the usage.

The funny thing about all of this is that I used to wear the helmet cam when I was the pit reporter on TV because no actual racer would wear the thing (it was much heavier and required a back pack for the batteries and recorder). Now they are so small and light, and the ability to post online or on Facebook or wherever has so completely changed, everyone wants to wear one.

DC
MX Sports
Has an exclusive with whom exactly?

Feld?

AMA?

(oops, just reread, and you said "the promoter" sorry)
ga_pike
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3/18/2013 11:08am
DC wrote:
Let me take a crack at this... The challenge is the fact that GoPro likely had an exclusive helmet-cam/POV contract with the series that does not...
Let me take a crack at this...

The challenge is the fact that GoPro likely had an exclusive helmet-cam/POV contract with the series that does not allow any other cameras to be displayed on the athletes, let alone the footage used. It has nothing to do with the quality of the product, but a pre-existing contract with obligations to the promoter. The teams can display whatever logos they want on the side of the shrouds, tanks, jerseys, trucks, or pits, be it a video camera logo (but not the camera itself) or an energy drink or goggles, oil, casual wear, whatever.

But on the track, the series has deals in place and you won't see Rockstar or Red Bull or any other energy drink anywhere but on the riders clothes or on the side of the bikes. The same goes for outdoors, and the same goes for GPs, I am guessing. Riders can wear stickers on their bikes or helmets, or in their pits and on the podium, but you won't see them anywhere else on or around the track.

Helmet cams are rapidly evolving products that are growing in popularity and applications, but that wasn't the case a few years again when GoPro was the first to really get into the sport. They are not "necessary," so a rider wearing one on his helmet is different than using a different oil than the series sponsor or riding a different bike. Maybe that will change as the products usage evolves, but they still can't be worn on helmets until the current contract is finished.

And before you throw the NASCAR model out at this, all of those cameras inside cars are series-related, not just what the teams want to wear. And NASCAR is very strict about the usage.

The funny thing about all of this is that I used to wear the helmet cam when I was the pit reporter on TV because no actual racer would wear the thing (it was much heavier and required a back pack for the batteries and recorder). Now they are so small and light, and the ability to post online or on Facebook or wherever has so completely changed, everyone wants to wear one.

DC
MX Sports
But that's not entirely true (2nd paragraph)... I see Red Bull and Rockstar on the podium every week being "consumed" by the riders after the race (or at least water from a Rockstar* can). So it's more than just a logo, it's actual product placement.

I understand the argument of "exclusive sponsor" but that shouldn't mean the riders are not permitted to utilize a different product if they should choose. It would make more sense if they couldn't advertise said product but use was unlimited. I think back to days as a kid growing up when we saw Jeff Ward's mechanic pouring Kawasaki 2 stroke oil into Bel-Ray bottles.
SEE ARE125
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3/18/2013 11:22am
500guy wrote:
Think of it on the Persons side who actually put up the money to get exclusive. If I pay for exclusive rights and another company shows...
Think of it on the Persons side who actually put up the money to get exclusive.

If I pay for exclusive rights and another company shows up , I want something done about it.

The people who try to piggy back their way in are ruining it , it's all about ownership and if any one of us were having our ownership infringed on we would stand up to it.
I agree 100% with what you said. But the exclusivity is actually hurting the sport itself. From a business prospective from the companies like Monster, GoPro, etc. it makes perfect sense. But for the sport itself, it's killing it. Those companies having a monopoly on the market discourages any outside companies from wanting to join in. They need to toss the current system, take the extra space in the pits and/or other areas and divide it into lots and sell it to companies to promote their product. Imagine the revenue that would create if you had 20-30 companies buying lots to setup and promote their product. I would much rather charge RedBull, Rockstar and Monster $200,000/each to have vendor space at all 17 rounds, than to just get a check from Monster for $500,000 to sponsor the series. They could all promote their product, and I would make more money. Everybody wins.
SlingShot
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3/18/2013 11:37am
Personally, I think helmet cams are a danger and need to ALL be outlawed.
DC
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3/18/2013 11:40am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2013 11:41am
SEE ARE 125, that would be great if there actually were 20 to 30 companies that would actually buy those spots and have the revenue to put 20 to 30 trucks and crews on the road to go around. And anything you sell in the parking lot or in the stadium, about 50% of that goes to the building, not the promoter. It's just not going to happen, unless you want to have all 17 races in Los Angeles, Dallas and New York City.

And ga_pike, I think the energy drinks are much more vital and necessary to the survival of the teams than helmet cams, so they are given more leeway when it comes to being down around the podium with bottles -- and those bottles are show after the race, not during. There's not a single sport out there that has a purely open market for anyone to come in and do what they want, so this is not a situation unique to our sport.

Like I said, the POV market is rapidly evolving and could very well become the next energy drink market, but I don't think anyone could have guessed that a few years ago, just as no one saw the benefits that energy drinks would bring into moto and everything else.

DC
MX Sports
GuyB
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3/18/2013 11:43am
Hmmm. ... this is kind of weird when you take a deep look at it. Should everyone ride just Kawis because they are the main sponsor...
Hmmm. ... this is kind of weird when you take a deep look at it.

Should everyone ride just Kawis because they are the main sponsor?

Should everyone only use Amsoil?

Should everyone only drink Monster while they are there?

You get my point, the list is endless.

I wonder how they get away with this? I love GoPro, but don't really like this idea that other's can't use their cameras while competing.
I think you misfired on the Kawasaki claim.

I don't know what's written into GoPro's sponsorship deal, but I'm pretty sure there's a limited amount of cameras allowed on the track, even among the GoPro riders. GoPro is allowed broadcast rights to the footage, and even that is limited to a certain length each week.

Personal opinion? I do think it's odd that Honda can't even run dummy "cameras" on a fender or helmet to help support one of their sponsors.
JeepnMike
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3/18/2013 11:44am
SlingShot wrote:
Personally, I think helmet cams are a danger and need to ALL be outlawed.
LOL. I remember the days when Factory Honda and Factory Kawasaki started using rider to team in-helmet radios. I forget the year but I remember Jeff Ward and I believe all of the Honda guys had them (with the big old battery / comm. boxes on the back of their helmets). I remember them being outlawed due to the advantage they provided and the insane cost of them making it virtually impossible for privateer teams to have them. Boy times have changed.
3/18/2013 8:36pm Edited Date/Time 3/18/2013 8:40pm
...and we wonder why outside sponsors are afraid of our sport.

I bet they didn't even have a bidding war for those exclusive rights. Let's not encourage monopoly for sponsors and their staked "claims."
Crush
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3/18/2013 8:47pm
SlingShot wrote:
You guys seem shocked.
hahaha... You guys remember the blurry red bull logo on Travis?
GuyB
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3/18/2013 11:26pm
SlingShot wrote:
You guys seem shocked.
Crush wrote:
hahaha... You guys remember the blurry red bull logo on Travis?
From what I understand, Travis was asked to not wear that particular hat, but did anyway.
ando
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3/19/2013 12:21am
500guy wrote:
Think of it on the Persons side who actually put up the money to get exclusive. If I pay for exclusive rights and another company shows...
Think of it on the Persons side who actually put up the money to get exclusive.

If I pay for exclusive rights and another company shows up , I want something done about it.

The people who try to piggy back their way in are ruining it , it's all about ownership and if any one of us were having our ownership infringed on we would stand up to it.
SEE ARE125 wrote:
I agree 100% with what you said. But the exclusivity is actually hurting the sport itself. From a business prospective from the companies like Monster, GoPro...
I agree 100% with what you said. But the exclusivity is actually hurting the sport itself. From a business prospective from the companies like Monster, GoPro, etc. it makes perfect sense. But for the sport itself, it's killing it. Those companies having a monopoly on the market discourages any outside companies from wanting to join in. They need to toss the current system, take the extra space in the pits and/or other areas and divide it into lots and sell it to companies to promote their product. Imagine the revenue that would create if you had 20-30 companies buying lots to setup and promote their product. I would much rather charge RedBull, Rockstar and Monster $200,000/each to have vendor space at all 17 rounds, than to just get a check from Monster for $500,000 to sponsor the series. They could all promote their product, and I would make more money. Everybody wins.
No different to any other exclusive sponsorship deal in other sports.

As to your last point, I'd rather bank the $500K than muck around trying to pull together multiple smaller sponsor deals that may or may not work out.
Crush
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3/19/2013 3:27am
SlingShot wrote:
You guys seem shocked.
Crush wrote:
hahaha... You guys remember the blurry red bull logo on Travis?
GuyB wrote:
From what I understand, Travis was asked to not wear that particular hat, but did anyway.
Although I find it amazing, isn't it pretty well normal practice over there?

Whenever I see a Yankie reality show on tv here, everything is blurry!
tomcat
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3/19/2013 4:24am
go pro has to protect themselvs because who would wear one of those big bulky ugly squares on top of your helmet when there are awsome cameras like the JONES CAM that shoots sweet videos and is about the size of a roll of quarters and only needs a piece of velcro to mount it .not to mention way more versitale . mine even came with a clip to mount it to a ball cap visor. and the price with wide angle lens and 8 gb micro card was only 240 bucks
Klutch
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3/19/2013 5:47am Edited Date/Time 3/19/2013 5:48am
What is sad is that in a few years Feld will be sponsored by go pro exclusively and force ALL the riders to run the product. Taking personal sponsorship away from riders and money out of their pocket.
tomcat
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3/19/2013 6:58am
pic of the jones cam next to a roll of pennies
3/19/2013 7:37am
every day I get closer and closer to dropping $300 for one of those gopro's. They are straight up bad ass.

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