Half the topics on the front page are 2 stroke related.

newmann
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newmann
Edited Date/Time 9/22/2014 7:29am
Are the Japanese OEM's really this stupid?
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bsharkey
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bsharkey 9/21/2014 1:50pm
9/21/2014 1:50pm
I can tell you this. over the last 2 years ive seen a ton more two strokes around. a lot of guys I know have a 450 and a 250 two stroke they ride. id say ktm is doing there job well because a majority I see are ktms. I think they are great bikes to have fun on for everyone
Brad460
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Brad460 9/21/2014 1:56pm
9/21/2014 1:56pm
Yamaha seems to think there is a market, but clearly a small market for 2strokes. Ironic given the fact they more or less started this whole 4stroke thing...

It seems to be a Japanese mentality to only focus on 4strokes..same thing happened with snowmobiles. Yamaha jumped the gun on building 4strokes and the other "non" Japanese manufacturers held off (likely because they lacked the technology and R&D dollars to develop their own) Yamaha paid the price and is still dead last in sales.

If the market truely existed for 2strokes I think you would see more manufacturers jumping on board..no?...I personally love my 450 and will likely never buy a 2stroke as my main racer..
bd
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bd 9/21/2014 2:03pm
9/21/2014 2:03pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2014 2:07pm
If the consumer went to the Yamaha dealers and Yamaha sold out of 2015 two strokes by December 2014, it would be a statement. When Yamaha introduced the 400 and 426, they could not keep them in the shop. Buying used two strokes for $1,500 does not place a fire under the manufacturer's asses. Its signals people seek high performance cheap options to new two stroke and four stroke models.

The Shop

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Ing
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Ing 9/21/2014 2:10pm
9/21/2014 2:10pm
Purely economically drive. Oh, btw. GuyB said he didn't want to see anymore on the cc per cc displacement advantage/disadvantage. BUT, the whole thing started because they had a damn near double displacement advantage. Truth GuyB.
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MxKing809 9/21/2014 2:12pm
9/21/2014 2:12pm
It's a shitty scenario all around. Should we be forced to purchase a 9 year old bike with BNP for full retail to signal someone in a cubical they should invest R&D dollars?
lostboy819
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lostboy819 9/21/2014 2:27pm
9/21/2014 2:27pm
Unless they change the rules to not favor the 4 strokes why would they build new 2 strokes. The AMA should have fixed the rules back when Yamaha build the YZF400 but now its to late. This was long before any of the other OEMs were building 4 strokes and even longer before they had the time bomb 250Fs on the drawing board and now I don't blame the OEMs for not wanting a CC to CC rule and DC isn't going to shit where he sleeps by by trying to change it either,the sport wont die off but it wont be what it was in the past either.
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Travis_Hudson 9/21/2014 2:52pm
9/21/2014 2:52pm
It says something that's for sure. I would like to think as a whole, it is being noticed. Enough for change? Time will tell.
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KLM85 9/21/2014 4:01pm
9/21/2014 4:01pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2014 4:02pm
I'm loving it. If that new husky 250 really made 63 hp with a little porting it is only a matter of time before the 2t is running down the 450s even at half displacement. From a technical perspective the two stroke is more than capable of making more torque and hp even with the terrible rules in place. That's not even considering how light they are.
JB 19
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JB 19 9/21/2014 4:03pm
9/21/2014 4:03pm
That's because all of the 4 stroke guys were too busy out riding to post. Tongue
headache
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headache 9/21/2014 4:11pm
9/21/2014 4:11pm
KLM85 wrote:
I'm loving it. If that new husky 250 really made 63 hp with a little porting it is only a matter of time before the 2t...
I'm loving it. If that new husky 250 really made 63 hp with a little porting it is only a matter of time before the 2t is running down the 450s even at half displacement. From a technical perspective the two stroke is more than capable of making more torque and hp even with the terrible rules in place. That's not even considering how light they are.
Carmichaels 02 cr250 made 62hp i believe.. that was 13yrs ago almost.. another decade of technology can certainly make a 250 2t smoke current 450's. just takes the right rider. I Think someone like Barcia that can really wring a motor out would be a good candidate on a smoker.
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slipdog 9/21/2014 4:11pm
9/21/2014 4:11pm
KLM85 wrote:
I'm loving it. If that new husky 250 really made 63 hp with a little porting it is only a matter of time before the 2t...
I'm loving it. If that new husky 250 really made 63 hp with a little porting it is only a matter of time before the 2t is running down the 450s even at half displacement. From a technical perspective the two stroke is more than capable of making more torque and hp even with the terrible rules in place. That's not even considering how light they are.
63hp... You've been reading too much MXA!
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Outsider 9/21/2014 4:31pm
9/21/2014 4:31pm
JB 19 wrote:
That's because all of the 4 stroke guys were too busy out riding to post. Tongue
Woohoo
Landonious217 9/21/2014 5:08pm
9/21/2014 5:08pm
A few questions

1. How many of you were involved in moto pre 2005?

2. How much bigger were the amateur gates at local races then?

3. How many folks do you know that used to race but no longer do, due to cost?

I started in moto in 1996 I remember going to moiser valley and lake whitney to what seemed to be rv's and bikes as far as the eye could see. I know at least 7 families that were heavily involved in racing till about 2003 that couldn't keep up with the cost of 250f's and just quit and are gone. Like have zero interest what so ever in motocross after being involved with it for 10+ years.
machine
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machine 9/21/2014 5:16pm
9/21/2014 5:16pm
JB 19 wrote:
That's because all of the 4 stroke guys were too busy out riding to post. Tongue
It's just the old farts that sit at home and shine their vintage turds that have the time to post this stuff...all 150 of them....lol
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Katoomey 9/21/2014 5:32pm
9/21/2014 5:32pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2014 5:33pm
newmann wrote:
Are the Japanese OEM's really this stupid?
I don't know...but a lot of people on here and everywhere else should take responsibility as well. We wouldn't be here if no one bought any of those stupid valve-munchers. I feel like I was the only one saying this stuff in the late 90's and early 2000's. Yeah, at first, a lot of people didn't like the 4-stroke invasion, but after the big 4 all had them, not many people were still fighting the good fight. Now everyone is jumping back on the 2-stroke bandwagon. On one hand I like that, but on another it bugs the shit out of me. so, this is all I have to say about that.....................

Fuck off you conceded blow hards. Especially you Jody, and everyone else at MXA.
Grieby54
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Grieby54 9/21/2014 5:51pm
9/21/2014 5:51pm
I'll bet if we all keep bitching about it online they'll make more 2 strokes!
Brad460
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Brad460 9/21/2014 5:57pm
9/21/2014 5:57pm
Landonious217 wrote:
A few questions 1. How many of you were involved in moto pre 2005? 2. How much bigger were the amateur gates at local races then...
A few questions

1. How many of you were involved in moto pre 2005?

2. How much bigger were the amateur gates at local races then?

3. How many folks do you know that used to race but no longer do, due to cost?

I started in moto in 1996 I remember going to moiser valley and lake whitney to what seemed to be rv's and bikes as far as the eye could see. I know at least 7 families that were heavily involved in racing till about 2003 that couldn't keep up with the cost of 250f's and just quit and are gone. Like have zero interest what so ever in motocross after being involved with it for 10+ years.
IMO...motocross isn't something you just pick up for a handful of years and just quit due to cost. It's something we are born to do regardless of cost...you find a way to get the money!! They were never true motocrossers...this is a f-ing fact...

Pit Row

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ML512
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ML512 9/21/2014 5:57pm
9/21/2014 5:57pm
Here's my 2 cents (which I pointed out at the end of our YZ125 video), if you want to see more development behind 2-strokes, go out and buy NEW ones. The bean counters don't see the numbers related to people buying used bikes off craigslist, they see the numbers off new bikes being sold. So let's say that Yamaha brings 400 YZ250s into the state's for 2015 and they sell 330 before years end. But they bring in 2500 YZ450s and sell 2400+. Then the R&D staff approaches about development budget for the next models being developed, where will the money fall? Change their opinions by making he manufacters sell out of said 2-stroke models before the next year's model is released, that may grab their attention a bit more.
Trav138
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Trav138 9/21/2014 6:09pm
9/21/2014 6:09pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2014 8:48pm
ML512 wrote:
Here's my 2 cents (which I pointed out at the end of our YZ125 video), if you want to see more development behind 2-strokes, go out...
Here's my 2 cents (which I pointed out at the end of our YZ125 video), if you want to see more development behind 2-strokes, go out and buy NEW ones. The bean counters don't see the numbers related to people buying used bikes off craigslist, they see the numbers off new bikes being sold. So let's say that Yamaha brings 400 YZ250s into the state's for 2015 and they sell 330 before years end. But they bring in 2500 YZ450s and sell 2400+. Then the R&D staff approaches about development budget for the next models being developed, where will the money fall? Change their opinions by making he manufacters sell out of said 2-stroke models before the next year's model is released, that may grab their attention a bit more.
Or the Japanese could look at KTM 2 stoke sales, most people will buy a new KTM over a decade old new YZ, so not much choice for buyers other than KTM. Or better yet, lead don't follow,ie. produce a 300 2 stoke for offroad and mx. My next bike will be a KTM 300.
ML512
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ML512 9/21/2014 6:22pm
9/21/2014 6:22pm
ML512 wrote:
Here's my 2 cents (which I pointed out at the end of our YZ125 video), if you want to see more development behind 2-strokes, go out...
Here's my 2 cents (which I pointed out at the end of our YZ125 video), if you want to see more development behind 2-strokes, go out and buy NEW ones. The bean counters don't see the numbers related to people buying used bikes off craigslist, they see the numbers off new bikes being sold. So let's say that Yamaha brings 400 YZ250s into the state's for 2015 and they sell 330 before years end. But they bring in 2500 YZ450s and sell 2400+. Then the R&D staff approaches about development budget for the next models being developed, where will the money fall? Change their opinions by making he manufacters sell out of said 2-stroke models before the next year's model is released, that may grab their attention a bit more.
Trav138 wrote:
Or the Japanese could look at KTM 2 stoke sales, most people will buy a new KTM over a decade old new YZ, so not much...
Or the Japanese could look at KTM 2 stoke sales, most people will buy a new KTM over a decade old new YZ, so not much choice for buyers other than KTM. Or better yet, lead don't follow,ie. produce a 300 2 stoke for offroad and mx. My next bike will be a KTM 300.
Last I checked the numbers, KTM's wasn't much higher than what I just gave as an example. I believe it's barely enough to homologate them for racing. In the case of the 125, I don't think there's enough brought in.

As much as quite a few members on here would like to paint the manifacters as these evil dictators, the brand managers I deal with are not. They're enthusiasts just as you or I are, and they've given me a similar statement as the one I posted above.
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seth505 9/21/2014 6:23pm
9/21/2014 6:23pm
Landonious217 wrote:
A few questions 1. How many of you were involved in moto pre 2005? 2. How much bigger were the amateur gates at local races then...
A few questions

1. How many of you were involved in moto pre 2005?

2. How much bigger were the amateur gates at local races then?

3. How many folks do you know that used to race but no longer do, due to cost?

I started in moto in 1996 I remember going to moiser valley and lake whitney to what seemed to be rv's and bikes as far as the eye could see. I know at least 7 families that were heavily involved in racing till about 2003 that couldn't keep up with the cost of 250f's and just quit and are gone. Like have zero interest what so ever in motocross after being involved with it for 10+ years.
1. Yes

2. MUCH bigger, Novice class usually ran multiple 40 bike motos to get a final 40 that qualify for the days "points" moto .

3. A good amount
seth505
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seth505 9/21/2014 6:25pm
9/21/2014 6:25pm
ML512 wrote:
Last I checked the numbers, KTM's wasn't much higher than what I just gave as an example. I believe it's barely enough to homologate them for...
Last I checked the numbers, KTM's wasn't much higher than what I just gave as an example. I believe it's barely enough to homologate them for racing. In the case of the 125, I don't think there's enough brought in.

As much as quite a few members on here would like to paint the manifacters as these evil dictators, the brand managers I deal with are not. They're enthusiasts just as you or I are, and they've given me a similar statement as the one I posted above.
Quite true, I know one even has a 2stroke he rides Smile
ML512
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ML512 9/21/2014 6:27pm
9/21/2014 6:27pm
ML512 wrote:
Last I checked the numbers, KTM's wasn't much higher than what I just gave as an example. I believe it's barely enough to homologate them for...
Last I checked the numbers, KTM's wasn't much higher than what I just gave as an example. I believe it's barely enough to homologate them for racing. In the case of the 125, I don't think there's enough brought in.

As much as quite a few members on here would like to paint the manifacters as these evil dictators, the brand managers I deal with are not. They're enthusiasts just as you or I are, and they've given me a similar statement as the one I posted above.
seth505 wrote:
Quite true, I know one even has a 2stroke he rides Smile
I'm pretty sure I know exactly who you're talking about. Wink
michael.hillion 9/21/2014 6:28pm
9/21/2014 6:28pm
bsharkey wrote:
I can tell you this. over the last 2 years ive seen a ton more two strokes around. a lot of guys I know have a...
I can tell you this. over the last 2 years ive seen a ton more two strokes around. a lot of guys I know have a 450 and a 250 two stroke they ride. id say ktm is doing there job well because a majority I see are ktms. I think they are great bikes to have fun on for everyone
same here, INCLUDING as soon as I am done with my current injury
michael.hillion 9/21/2014 6:30pm
9/21/2014 6:30pm
Landonious217 wrote:
A few questions 1. How many of you were involved in moto pre 2005? 2. How much bigger were the amateur gates at local races then...
A few questions

1. How many of you were involved in moto pre 2005?

2. How much bigger were the amateur gates at local races then?

3. How many folks do you know that used to race but no longer do, due to cost?

I started in moto in 1996 I remember going to moiser valley and lake whitney to what seemed to be rv's and bikes as far as the eye could see. I know at least 7 families that were heavily involved in racing till about 2003 that couldn't keep up with the cost of 250f's and just quit and are gone. Like have zero interest what so ever in motocross after being involved with it for 10+ years.
seth505 wrote:
1. Yes 2. MUCH bigger, Novice class usually ran multiple 40 bike motos to get a final 40 that qualify for the days "points" moto...
1. Yes

2. MUCH bigger, Novice class usually ran multiple 40 bike motos to get a final 40 that qualify for the days "points" moto .

3. A good amount
#1 yes
#2 HUGE
#3 Unfortunately ALOT
queen of spodes 9/21/2014 6:30pm
9/21/2014 6:30pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2014 7:20pm
Landonious217 wrote:
A few questions 1. How many of you were involved in moto pre 2005? 2. How much bigger were the amateur gates at local races then...
A few questions

1. How many of you were involved in moto pre 2005?

2. How much bigger were the amateur gates at local races then?

3. How many folks do you know that used to race but no longer do, due to cost?

I started in moto in 1996 I remember going to moiser valley and lake whitney to what seemed to be rv's and bikes as far as the eye could see. I know at least 7 families that were heavily involved in racing till about 2003 that couldn't keep up with the cost of 250f's and just quit and are gone. Like have zero interest what so ever in motocross after being involved with it for 10+ years.
My first motocross race was in 1989. I was in the 125-D class with 45 other people. Gate was rubber band and there were just about as many in the C class.

The last race I entered was in 2012. Only 10 people in the "lites" D class. About that many in a combined A&B class.

I rarely race anymore. Part of that is aging and fear of being landed on. Part of it is the cost to practice and enter events these days. Fewer people racing today but the competition is a lot stronger IMHO.
aaryn #234
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aaryn #234 9/21/2014 6:32pm
9/21/2014 6:32pm
So Newman are you trying to tell us that 50% of people who started new topics on the front page at the moment are fans of two strokes?

OR that two stroke lovers just like to post and whinge more?

Last time i checked two strokes could still be bought new. KTM, Yamaha, TM and others are still building and selling them on a scale that the market is asking for.

I am a fan of two strokes, if I could afford a second bike it would be a two stroke to have some fun on.

I really don't understand what all the complaining is about.
Brad460
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Brad460 9/21/2014 6:58pm
9/21/2014 6:58pm
Agree with you 100%...I understand taking time off from motocross until ones finances are in better shape, but I can never understand people who raced for years and then quit cold turkey the rest of their life..

Yes, same where I race the 30+ and 40+ classes are the biggest.

Post a reply to: Half the topics on the front page are 2 stroke related.